4/1 Rudy AMPS 364, +2 345, +8 347, +10 352 PMPS 361, +2 346, +4 274, +6 292
- Thread starter Jen1218
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Did you hear back from the vet yet on dose? Most of us here follow either the Tight Regulation (TR) Protocol or the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) Method to figure out our doses. That way we don't have to rely on the vet to call us back and can figure out how to make dose changes on our own. Or with the help of experienced people here. Depending on which dosing method you are using, you'd increase after 5-7 days of the initial dose. However, Rudy did start rather lower than what we'd recommend here, which is probably why he's stuck in pink.
Is Rudy still getting some dry food? That would mean having to follow SLGS, though you do test enough for TR. Give a read over the two Sticky notes describing how we do dosing and feel free to ask questions if you'd like to proceed by doing dosing without waiting for the vet.
Come on down Rudy, nothing fun happening on the pink floor.
Is Rudy still getting some dry food? That would mean having to follow SLGS, though you do test enough for TR. Give a read over the two Sticky notes describing how we do dosing and feel free to ask questions if you'd like to proceed by doing dosing without waiting for the vet.
Come on down Rudy, nothing fun happening on the pink floor.
Jen1218
Member Since 2017
Hi. No word from his vet. Pissed about that. I have no idea which protocol to follow. They're both very confusing. I'm just getting frustrated. His numbers aren't moving. His vet hasn't called. And for the most part - this board is not very helpful to me. If I do get a response at all - it's usually somebody nitpicking that I don't have enough data or his dose is too low. None of that is helpful. I'm going to up his dose by .5 tonight and see how he does. I'm sorry if this post didn't come off as polite, but I'm completely fed up with the whole situation.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
Hey there and welcome to the L & L forum. My cat Bubba started off on ProZinc also and we switched to Lantus Dec. 1st 2015. So glad we did as I think working with Lantus is so much easier.
As Wendy said, you test enough to follow TR and that can help to get him into better numbers faster. As far as increasing the dose, we usually do it in .25 unit increments so we don't miss the best dose.
Please keep posting and please don't feel that peeps are nitpicking as I could not have gotten Bubba into remission with the help of all the experienced people on this board. Their is a wealth of knowledge here and just keep posting and asking questions as that is how we all learned.. We are here to help you.
As Wendy said, you test enough to follow TR and that can help to get him into better numbers faster. As far as increasing the dose, we usually do it in .25 unit increments so we don't miss the best dose.
Please keep posting and please don't feel that peeps are nitpicking as I could not have gotten Bubba into remission with the help of all the experienced people on this board. Their is a wealth of knowledge here and just keep posting and asking questions as that is how we all learned.. We are here to help you.
Jen1218
Member Since 2017
I'm just so over all of this. And it hasn't even been 2 months. Every time his meter beeps and there's a reading over 300 - I wanna throw it against the wall. I changed everyone's diet, test fequently, dose on time and he's on the second type of insulin. None of it is even remotely helping him. I can't do this much longer without seeing a significant improvement.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
Hang in there! So many of us can relate. You will hit the correct dose. That is why we recommend going up in .25 increments. It took Bubba to get to 5.25 units before we started to earn reductions and he came down the dosing scale to Off the Juice (OTJ) Please just hang in there and keep reading all the stickies in Lantus Forum and what helped me was to start reading other's post each day. I learned so much by what was going on with other kitties and their questions and the answers.
Keep posting and keep asking questions. You wouldn't be here if you didn't love Rudy so much and want to help him. Unfortunately, most vets do not know enough about Feline Diabetes as they only get about 8 hours training on it and a lot of kitties that get the DX of Feline Diabetes get euthanized. It is a treatable disease and you have to remember that Rudy was diabetic long before he showed symptoms. So 2 months into this dance is not that long in the scheme of things.
I just wanted to add that I just realized that you give Young Again dry which would mean that you need to follow Start Low Go Slow method. The reasoning is because dry food is metabolized differently ( slower ) than wet food and the Tight Regulation (TR) protoc0l is for cats on low carb wet food.
I personally love the Young Again. I give some of it to my cats each day ( I feed 6 mini meals a day and two of those meals are 1 tbsp. of YA )
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
No, Jen, don't give up. We won't let you. You need to eye ball the dose that would be in between the units by 1/4. And I am not sure where you are in the country, but if you have a Walmart near you, you can get ReliOn syringes that have 1/2 unit marks and they are really inexpensive. There are 100 syringes for about 13 bucks.
I get the 3/10 mL , 31 gauge, and 8mm length.
Can you add what state you are in on your signature? That helps peep know what time zone you in.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
Bummer about the RX for syringes. Go online to see if you can order some syringes with 1/2 unit markings. Or call your vet and ask if they have 1/2 unit marking syringes until you can order some. I hope some other peeps will weigh in to offer some good choices online for syringes. I am not so familiar as I can get mine at Walmart with out an RX.
Jen, we have all been where you are with being overwhelmed and tired and frustrated. Please know that and know that we will do whatever we can to help you through all this .
Jen1218
Member Since 2017
Thanks. I appreciate the support, but I'm not sure it's going to help. I'll post his numbers tonight and then I'm done on here. It's not making me feel any better. In fact, I feel worse after reading stickies and posts. I feel like a failure. Thanks for the advice, but I'm off here til I have good news/numbers.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
We all can relate. Remember, knowledge is power. No failures here, just lack of information. We will help y0u. Keep posting, please.
Please don't feel like a failure. 
You are doing many things right. You are giving insulin, you are feeding low carb food, you are testing to keep him safe. I didn't even test the first two months. 
And it wasn't until six months later that I found a good dose for Neko. Now she had a couple of high dose conditions that made things trickier. But we all started out where you are and remember how frustrating this disease. FD stands for Feline diabetes or frustrating disease. Trust me, it will get better and we can support you along the way. By the way, for months I kept posting, in spite of having the cat with the worst numbers of any of them. I eventually got Neko into good numbers, with the support and knowledge of FDMB.
The other thing to remember is that we are all just caregivers of diabetic cats, trying to give you suggestions based on our own experiences. That may even mean you get contradictory suggestions. Although the SLGS method says to go up by 0.25 units, I think since you started lower than we would have done here ( and I realize you were following your vet's suggestion), I think it's OK to go up to 2.5 units. The other thing to consider is that we are just trying to suggest what we think will keep Rudy safe. We have seen far too many sad cases and we don't want anything bad to happen to you and Rudy.
Many of the peeps here buy their syringes at ADW online.https://www.adwdiabetes.com/catalog/syringes_88.htm I did not because I am in Canada and just can buy the BD syringes.
You are doing many things right. You are giving insulin, you are feeding low carb food, you are testing to keep him safe. I didn't even test the first two months. And it wasn't until six months later that I found a good dose for Neko. Now she had a couple of high dose conditions that made things trickier. But we all started out where you are and remember how frustrating this disease. FD stands for Feline diabetes or frustrating disease. Trust me, it will get better and we can support you along the way. By the way, for months I kept posting, in spite of having the cat with the worst numbers of any of them. I eventually got Neko into good numbers, with the support and knowledge of FDMB. The other thing to remember is that we are all just caregivers of diabetic cats, trying to give you suggestions based on our own experiences. That may even mean you get contradictory suggestions. Although the SLGS method says to go up by 0.25 units, I think since you started lower than we would have done here ( and I realize you were following your vet's suggestion), I think it's OK to go up to 2.5 units. The other thing to consider is that we are just trying to suggest what we think will keep Rudy safe. We have seen far too many sad cases and we don't want anything bad to happen to you and Rudy.
Many of the peeps here buy their syringes at ADW online.https://www.adwdiabetes.com/catalog/syringes_88.htm I did not because I am in Canada and just can buy the BD syringes.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
That is a really good point.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
Good luck with the increase. Wendy' s suggestion was a good one. We will all be watching with positive anticipation .
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Hang in there, Jen. It takes time to get to a good dose - and Rudy is worth that time. You wouldn't have invested all that you have in him if you didn't think so. This can be a frustrating disease, but as you learn more, it will all get easier. We all remember how aggravating it is in the beginning.
The stickies are also confusing to pretty much everyone. That's why so many of us with experience get online every day to coach new members and teach them how to apply the guidelines to their own cats. Once you've got the hang of things you won't need to consult with your vet or to have someone here help you decide on dose changes. For now, it's good to have folks here tell you what they see and help you learn how to use the stickies to figure out what to do with the dose. Advice isn't criticism - you can take it or leave it, and no one will think anything about it. We just tell people what we think might be helpful to them - but it's ok if you want to do things a different way. Just ask whatever questions you have and people will try to answer.
It is typical for it to look like not much is happening until you suddenly hit a sweet spot with the dose - and then finally you start to see better numbers. If you're up to tackling things again in the morning when you see this, I'd suggest that you take a look at this page. This is the same thing as the Tight Regulation Protocol, but written out differently. It's in a link on the Tight Reg sticky. The reason I'm suggesting it is because it shows the progression that you go through with giving Lantus or Levemir to a cat. Phase 1: You start with a starting dose, then Phase 2: you increase the dose methodically, based upon how low each dose can cause the cat's blood sugar to go. Look at the lowest number that you're getting on a dose, compare it to the charts and decide if you need to increase, hold or decrease the dose. Phase 3: Once the cat starts to have nadirs in green numbers, then you hold the dose longer. When a cat is spending more time in normal range (green numbers, under 100) then the opportunity exists for the cat's pancreas to heal if at all possible. When/if that happens, the cat will enter phase 4: reducing the dose. I like having things laid out this way because I think it helps people make sense of the "why" of what they are doing. Right now, you're in phase 2 - increasing Rudy's dose.
While this is part of the Tight Reg guidelines, the basic process is the same with Start Low Go Slow. The primary difference is that SLGS holds doses for a week at a time while you are in phase 2. The Tight Reg guidelines have one re-evaluating the dose every 2-3 days. I think others have explained more about Tight Reg and SLGS so I won't repeat.
It's very, very common to have it look like not much is happening until you get to a dose that gets a cat into green - under 100. So don't be discouraged that it doesn't look like much is happening - it is still helping Rudy and you are accomplishing something. You'll get him there. Your persistence will pay off!
I think it was a smart move to increase to 2.5u. Now we'll see what it does for him - 3 days will tell if it can get him into green or if he needs another dose increase. If you decide you want to following the Start Low Go Slow guidelines, that means you would usually spend a week at each dose, unless he goes under 90(SLGS) or under 50 (Tight Reg) - then the dose is reduced with the next shot.
Hope some of that helps. The more you understand, the less frustrating it is.
The stickies are also confusing to pretty much everyone. That's why so many of us with experience get online every day to coach new members and teach them how to apply the guidelines to their own cats. Once you've got the hang of things you won't need to consult with your vet or to have someone here help you decide on dose changes. For now, it's good to have folks here tell you what they see and help you learn how to use the stickies to figure out what to do with the dose. Advice isn't criticism - you can take it or leave it, and no one will think anything about it. We just tell people what we think might be helpful to them - but it's ok if you want to do things a different way. Just ask whatever questions you have and people will try to answer.
It is typical for it to look like not much is happening until you suddenly hit a sweet spot with the dose - and then finally you start to see better numbers. If you're up to tackling things again in the morning when you see this, I'd suggest that you take a look at this page. This is the same thing as the Tight Regulation Protocol, but written out differently. It's in a link on the Tight Reg sticky. The reason I'm suggesting it is because it shows the progression that you go through with giving Lantus or Levemir to a cat. Phase 1: You start with a starting dose, then Phase 2: you increase the dose methodically, based upon how low each dose can cause the cat's blood sugar to go. Look at the lowest number that you're getting on a dose, compare it to the charts and decide if you need to increase, hold or decrease the dose. Phase 3: Once the cat starts to have nadirs in green numbers, then you hold the dose longer. When a cat is spending more time in normal range (green numbers, under 100) then the opportunity exists for the cat's pancreas to heal if at all possible. When/if that happens, the cat will enter phase 4: reducing the dose. I like having things laid out this way because I think it helps people make sense of the "why" of what they are doing. Right now, you're in phase 2 - increasing Rudy's dose.
While this is part of the Tight Reg guidelines, the basic process is the same with Start Low Go Slow. The primary difference is that SLGS holds doses for a week at a time while you are in phase 2. The Tight Reg guidelines have one re-evaluating the dose every 2-3 days. I think others have explained more about Tight Reg and SLGS so I won't repeat.
It's very, very common to have it look like not much is happening until you get to a dose that gets a cat into green - under 100. So don't be discouraged that it doesn't look like much is happening - it is still helping Rudy and you are accomplishing something. You'll get him there. Your persistence will pay off!
I think it was a smart move to increase to 2.5u. Now we'll see what it does for him - 3 days will tell if it can get him into green or if he needs another dose increase. If you decide you want to following the Start Low Go Slow guidelines, that means you would usually spend a week at each dose, unless he goes under 90(SLGS) or under 50 (Tight Reg) - then the dose is reduced with the next shot.
Hope some of that helps. The more you understand, the less frustrating it is.
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