4/02/13 Rags, Moms turn

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About the next shot time.

Spreading out some of the feeding as mini-meals in the first half of the cycle may help keep him from feeling too hungry.
Feeding in the second half, after the nadir, from about +4 to the next preshot may take him really, really high.

So with a regular shot cycle, you have about 3 1/2 to 4 hours where he can have small amounts of food, then you want to wait until the next cycle where you get a preshot, feed, and shoot.

How much would you say he eats/ needs to eat in a day?

You want to spread it out for the 3 shot cycles something like this, which would be 4 1/2 FF cans total:
7:00 am - 7:30 am pre-shot meal, maybe one 3 oz can
7:30 am insulin
7:30 am - 11:00 am food as needed; maybe one half 3 oz can total
11:00 am - 2:00 pm no food

2:00 pm - 2:30 pm pre-shot meal, maybe one 3 oz can
2:30 pm insulin pm
2:30 pm - 6:00 food as needed; maybe one half 3 oz can total
6:00 pm - 9:00 pm no food

9:00 pm - 9:30 pm pre-shot meal, maybe one 3 oz can
9:30 pm insulin
9:30 pm - 4:00 am food as needed; maybe one half 3 oz can total
 
So using the times in my previous post, how much would you want to feed him at each meal and after each meal?

I used 1 can for pre-shot and 1/2 can for post-shot nibbling; you could do 1/3 can for any post-shot nibbling if you prefer. That would total 4 cans a day.
 
you know what, He only eats at test time, that's it. I do not feed him after that. He always ate alot at breakfast, but at night, usually only one bowl, 1/4 to 1/2 can. Never wanted anymore.

When he eats now he is uaually full, because he will stop eating. he seems to get hungry when he can't have food.

Is his next sot going to be at 7:00 p.m ?
 
What we could do, to help you get back on schedule, is go for a slightly earlier 6:00 pre-test and 6:30 shot.
 
a slightly earlier 6:00 pre-test
and
6:30 shot

Per Hope's next post, never mind getting back on schedule today. Tomorrow will have to do.
 
Back on for a short time........how about if you just wait till 7 tonight and do a test and post that number? If we shoot him too early, we know where he'll be by morning....HI. Heck, he'll probably be HI no matter what we do but he is still going down, at least from his last test.
 
That sounds good to me. 7:00 p.m test, feed 1 can and shoot 2 units ? (a half hour after he is done eating)

Will he need another pre-test, food and shot tonite since he has only had one shot so far ? Like at 2:00 a.m. ?

He has had three cans of food so far and I try to only feed him 3.5 cans a day.
 
yo hon said:
you know what, He only eats at test time, that's it. I do not feed him after that. He always ate alot at breakfast, but at night, usually only one bowl, 1/4 to 1/2 can. Never wanted anymore.

When he eats now he is uaually full, because he will stop eating. he seems to get hungry when he can't have food.
Click to expand...

yo hon said:
I've been feeding him 3 1/2 cans a day.
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Tomorrow maybe you might follow this schedule
Spread out for the 3 shot cycles something like this, which would be 3 FF cans total:
7:00 am - 7:30 am pre-shot meal, maybe one 3 oz can
7:30 am insulin
7:30 am - 11:00 am food if needed
11:00 am - 2:00 pm no food

2:00 pm - 2:30 pm pre-shot meal, maybe one 3 oz can
2:30 pm insulin pm
2:30 pm - 6:00 food if needed
6:00 pm - 9:00 pm no food

9:00 pm - 9:30 pm pre-shot meal, maybe one 3 oz can
9:30 pm insulin
9:30 pm - 4:00 am food if needed

If you feed a little less at earlier meals, he may eat better in the evening.

When I say if needed, that would be if he tested below 50, ie, was having a hypo.
 
yo hon said:
That sounds good to me. 7:00 p.m test, feed 1 can and shoot 2 units ? (a half hour after he is done eating)

Will he need another pre-test, food and shot tonite since he has only had one shot so far ? Like at 2:00 a.m. ?

He has had three cans of food so far and I try to only feed him 3.5 cans a day.
Click to expand...

I think we're going to go with just 2 shots today. Yes, that means he will be high. Being high is better than being too low - you don't want to be up o all hours checking him for a hypo!

I have rehearsal shortly and will be out 'till later this evening; Hope will back around 7.
 
I cannot do feeding schedule like that I have to work tomorrow, and thurs. and Frid. to make up for days I lost last week.

Also, he would be starving ! He was used to eating 4 1/2 cans when this started.
 
That's okay, Becki. What hours will you be working? We'll figure out something based on that.
 
Hey Carl & Bob welcombe back !! I work 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. I must leave the house at 8:15 a.m. and I get home at approx, 1:45 p.m, sometimes 1:30 p.m. if I'm lucky !

I am getting teady to test and feed Rags his 7:00 p.m. I have not quite a full can of ff for him with water.

7:00 p.m. BG - 494
 
Ok, Becki.......we know he goes up and where he is at right now.....you can feed him and then shoot him at 7:30 and give him 2 units.

Tomorrow morning....he will probably be HI and if he is,,,,,,feed him, wait and then shoot 2 units.

When you come home test him and post the time and number. We'll then go from there. Okay?
 
Carl & Bob, is he gonna be all right going twelve hours with nothing. I really worry about keytones hurting him. I can't give him a third shot ?

Is 3/4 gonna be enough for him now ? I know he would like more ???

Thanks !
 
Becki, ketones have nothing to do with cat eating too much food.

After he has eaten, give him the 2 units. After he has gotten his 2 units, you can then give him some more food anywhere up to 3 hrs. later after his shot.

If you shoot him at 7:30, he can then be given more food ...best at maybe 8:30 and another little snack at 9:30.

Carl is now taking over :razz:
 
Becki,
I think he's going to be fine until the AM test and shot.

Has Rags ever had ketones?

I agree with Hope. He can "snack" the rest of that can in the next hour or two.

What time are you planning on going to bed tonight? Is there any way you can get a test just before bedtime? It would be interesting to see what sort of number you see. Not critical information, but "good to know".
 
7:30 p.m. 2 units given. will feed more at 8:30 p.m.

Not that I'm aware of he hasn't had ketones.

What time would you like me to get a test ? Doesn't matter when I go to bed, I'll stay up as late as I have to, Just give me a time, I'll be there !
 
OK. well ketones are usually due to three things happening at once.

1 - lack of appetite that causes "not enough food". Usually they have something going on that makes them just not want to eat.
2 - lack of insulin.
3 - some type of infection.

A lot of times, they'll have some kind of infection (which will raise the BG), and they feel crappy and don't want to eat.
Sometimes the insulin just doesn't do enough to lower the BGs, or a dose will have been drastically reduced to too low a level.

When Bob had ketones, they got really bad, and he went through "DKA" (diabetic keto-acidosis). That was right after he got diagnosed, but before he'd been started on insulin. He wasn't eating either. It was life-threatening and he almost died. But after 3 days in emergency care, the ketones were gone, he started on insulin, and the positive changes overall were like day and night.

Right now, it looks like Rags is getting enough insulin. You can see it makes his numbers drop. It's just not a good insulin for cats, as you already know, so it doesn't keep his numbers down for long.

And he's eating enough.

And as far as we know, he's not suffering from any infection or anything else except for "just diabetes".

So we aren't really worried about ketones popping up quickly. He'll be going a couple hours longer tonight between shots, but it's not that big of a deal. Remember, he was going 12 hours between shots just a couple weeks ago, right?
 
What time would you like me to get a test ? Doesn't matter when I go to bed, I'll stay up as late as I have to, Just give me a time, I'll be there!
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10:00 o'clock? I'm sure others will be online later than that, but that's my bedtime this week as I've got my alarm set for 4:30am for the next 5 days. :smile:
 
i also get up everyday at 4:30 a.m. Carl, that's why i'm always hanging. i try to go to bed at 10:00, but my girl, Freeway who just turned 17 years old on Monday wants something to eat. i finally get to bed at 11:30 a.m. then she cries all night and bangs my kitchen cabinets. Sometimes she sounds like someone is killing her and it scares me. Also she cannot hear too good . i think her cognitive functions are acting up. the vet said she does NOT look 17, that made me feel great ! She is a very smart tuxedo cat. And VERY spoiled !!! She was the only cat i had when i moved here 13 years ago. I got her when my mom and dad passed and love her VERY much !!! SO, no sleep in my house !!!
 
Ha, it sounds like you have you hands full with her!

Happy belated birthday, Freeway :-D
 
Carl are you still here ? If so, when I feed my boy more food til 9:39 tonight will that make his sugar go higher ? I'm still a little confused about that. I don't want him to be HI in the a.m . I know the insulin doesn't last long, but is that when he sugar will go up ? His number was good this a.m
 
Here's how I understand this, Becki.
When cats digest food, they convert part of it to glucose to supply the "energy" to make evrything function.
So, in general, food makes the BG go up.
Insulin, whether it's produced by their pancreas or it's from a shot, will allow their cells to absorb that glucose, which makes the BG go down, because it's no longer just sitting there in the bloodstream.

Insulin that you are giving him will only last a certain amount of time and only lower the BG for so long. With N, that appears to be about 4-5 hours.

That is why people have said to only let Rags eat in the first 3-4 hours after the shot. That's when the N is most effective. If he eats after that, while the insulin is wearing off, then his BG will climb and the insulin won't be fighting to lower it.

So, he can eat during the night, but the later he eats, the more likely his number would go higher.

Does that help make sense of things?
 
Thank you, very much. then he is not eating anymore tonight.

Also, I'd lik to put his picture on my post, do yoy know how i do that ? if you have the time, if not, another time ok ?
 
If nobody beats me to it, I can try to help you with the picture tomorrow afternoon. There's several steps in the process. Do you have a picture already that you want to use? First it will need to be "shrunk" and I can do that if you don't have a program on your computer that will resize it. Then I can show you how to get it on your posts.
 
okie dokie,m it's a date. ha after 3:00 ok with you ? Thank you !!!

Sweet Dreams ! Guess I go back on regular schedule tomorrow with Rags.
 
Yes, tomorrow should be the normal routine, except for the fact you'll be working. :smile:

Good number, and good night!
 
yo hon said:
I cannot do feeding schedule like that I have to work tomorrow, and thurs. and Frid. to make up for days I lost last week.

Also, he would be starving ! He was used to eating 4 1/2 cans when this started.
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Becki

Usually, you're doing 3 sets of test, feed, shoot, whatever the times are.

What I am trying to tell you is divide all his food into 3 parts, 1 part for each shot cycle.

That means if you want to feed 4.5 cans per day, you would divide that by 3 and give 1.5 cans per feeding.

If you wanted to feed 3 cans per day, you would give 1 can per feeding.
 
yo hon said:
you know what, He only eats at test time, that's it. I do not feed him after that. He always ate alot at breakfast, but at night, usually only one bowl, 1/4 to 1/2 can. Never wanted anymore.

When he eats now he is uaually full, because he will stop eating. he seems to get hungry when he can't have food.
Click to expand...

Good this is what we want to see, Rags getting hungry. He should be hungry when you go to feed him. That way, you know he will eat before the shot which we really need to happen with this Novolin N insulin.

Carl & Bob said:
That is why people have said to only let Rags eat in the first 3-4 hours after the shot. That's when the N is most effective. If he eats after that, while the insulin is wearing off, then his BG will climb and the insulin won't be fighting to lower it. So, he can eat during the night, but the later he eats, the more likely his number would go higher.
Click to expand...

I bet his BG is low in the morning because he didn't eat late last night.
 
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