3/9Max/Elise AMPS307+4=322+6=238PMPS247+4=232

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tiffmaxee

tiffmaxee

Member Since 2013
Yesterday's Results:

AMPS 241
+4=203
+6=202
PMPS 241
+4=90
+6=89
+7=100

So after no pinks and a green night we start the day in the pink. Come on Max, get out of this quickly.
 
Re: 3/9Max/Elise AMPS307+4=322

Okay I assume this is definitely bouncing. His little body doesn't like to be in normal range. I still wonder sometimes if he is getting too much insulin and that is why he keeps bouncing. I pray it's not the "s" effect. I just had another thought. Maybe my giving each dose 15 minutes early to get him back on track was too much for him? I was going to do that again tonight and tomorrow morning but now I wonder if I should stop that until I see what he does. Thoughts on this? :?

I wonder if his dose needs to be DECREASED to see of Somali syndrome is happening ???

Thanks.
 
Re: 3/9Max/Elise AMPS307+4=322+6=238PMPS247

Elise

It's not possible to get them overdose if you follow the TR protocol which you have done.

I can't tell you how many times I wondered, when we were new, if I should take the dose down. Every time I've tried it, Gracie spent more time in high numbers.

I think you are referring to Somogyi. There is really no proof that Somogyi exists in cats.

Here is some info that Sienne posted in our condo when we were new and thought Gracie had Somogyi.

The topic of Somogyi came up some time before you joined the Board. Both Jill and I did a lot of lit searching. I have access to both a medical and veterinary library system. For a theory that has so many people convinced that it is a factor in human as well as in feline diabetes, there is an amazingly small amount of research on the topic. The earliest paper by Michael Somogyi, is from the 1930s and was not published in a widely recognized medical journal (i.e., it was in the Weekly Bulletin of the St. Louis Medical Society). Note that this was a report based on 5 human subjects and urine glucose, not blood glucose was measured. More recent reports note that Somogyi's observations have not been reliably reproduced under controlled conditions.

Gale, EA., et al., Lancet, 1980, pp 279-282, In search of the Somogyi effect wrote:
Although some patients had a very rapid fluctuation from hypoglycaemia to hyperglycaemia, we found no evidence that changes in counterregulatory hormone levels were responsible.The preceding interval of hypoglycemia was often prolonged, which implied defective homeostasis, and the difference between the patients with apparent rebound and those without could not be explained in terms of circulating levels of cortisol, growth hormone, or glucagon. Other workers have noted very variable changes in growth-hormone and cortisol levels after acute hypoglycsemia in unstable diabetics. We did not measure catecholamines and cannot rule out the possibility that they were partly responsible for the difference between our groups. However, the evidence presented here suggests that free insulin is the major factor involved.

The bold is mine. It points out that there is no evidence for what the vet is suggesting about "stress" hormones (i.e., cortisol).

In addition to the dearth of empirical research, there is even less that pertains to cats and none that addresses Somogyi phenomenon in the use of Lantus. Given that the presence of Somogyi is believed to be associated with doses that are raised in too large of an increment, it is surprising that this IM vet would not be an enthusiastic supporter of the Queensland/Rand tight regulation protocol. (FYI - there is another TR protocol and the vet may have assumed this was the one you were referring to.)

This is a link to info on Chronic Somogyi Rebound on Wiki. I would draw your attention to the section on Controversy:
Although this theory is well known among clinicians and individuals with diabetes, there is little scientific evidence to support it. Clinical studies indicate that a high fasting glucose in the morning is more likely because the insulin given on the previous evening fails to last long enough.[5] Recent studies using continuous glucose monitoring show that a high glucose in the morning is not preceded by a low glucose during the night.[6] Furthermore, many individuals with hypoglycemic episodes during the night fail to wake due to a failure of release of epinephrine during nocturnal hypoglycemia.[7] Thus, Somogyi's theory is not assured and may be refuted.

This information pertains to humans, not cats. However, the phenomenon was based on humans and extrapolated to felines so I'm going to presume the issues with the paucity as well as quality of the research are the same.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Marje. Someone cautioned me that this might be happening to my cat. I guess Max's body just needs to get used to low numbers and just bounces after several hours there. I just needed to check it out because like all of you here I so want him to be feeling good and feel so helpless as it is so confusing to me.

I guess he is giving me permission to sleep tonight which is a good thing because I think I only got 2 hours last night.

Thanks again and have a great night.
 
Elise, bouncing has got to be the most frustrating thing about FD. Neko still bounces after a couple of years, although not as high as she used to. It also takes a while for cats to feel good in lower numbers. I remember when I used to be able to tell Neko was in the low 300's, because that's when she'd start to play with her nanners. :roll: Now she does it in low blues. As Max spends more time in lower numbers they will feel like the new normal for him.

And yes, you get a chance to sleep tonight. :-D Patience sometimes means you get to bed early. ;-)
 
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