3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PMPS 108 +2.5 61

Status
Not open for further replies.
Amy&TrixieCat

Amy&TrixieCat

Very Active Member
Yesterday

We are back from the vetty....quickest trip ever! They got urine this time; the results will be back probably Monday or so. Not to bad with that +4.5, considering it was after the vetty visit and needle stick to her sweet little belly.

I also got a copy of her labs while I was there. The values again were:

BUN - 40 mg/dL (normal 14-36)...high
Creatinine - 2.6 mg/dL (normal 0.6 - 2.4)...high
BUN/Creatinine ratio - 15 (normal 4-33)...normal

Also, I forgot to ask about her phosphorus yesterday. It is 4.9mg/dL (normal 2.4-8.2)

She had some other high values as well (including some liver values), but the vet didn't seem concerned since Trix is clinically well....eating, not vomiting, LB is fine, etc - all 5 Ps in place.

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts, especially about that phosphorus. I remember someone (Marje, I think) saying that the lab's range really isn't accurate because it includes kittens, but I can't remember what the range for adults is. I looked at Tanya's site, and she says anything over 6 is a concern. Is Trix's phosphorous looking OK here? Should we start taking steps in changing her diet? It took so long to find a fuds that she likes and works well with her BGs...I'll change it if we have to, but I'd like to hold it if we can.

Thanks for any input! Time for work...have a great day, LL!

Amy
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PHOSPHORUS Q

This is one interpretation of the elevated BUN and creatinine:
Your pet has azotemia, which is elevation of the kidney values; BUN and Creatinine. BUN, or blood urea nitrogen, is a by-product of protein metabolism and is cleared by the kidneys. If the kidneys are not working well, the BUN builds up in the blood, resulting in toxicity. A high BUN can lead to stomach ulcers, nausea and a loss of appetite. Creatinine is a normal muscle enzyme that is cleared by the kidneys also. It does not result in toxicity for your pet, but it is good monitor of kidney function. Once the creatinine level reaches about 10, we suspect total kidney failure is occurring. A normal BUN level is below 36 and a normal creatinine level is below 2.4. Very mild elevations in these values may only be a result of severe dehydration, more likely, these elevations mean your pet has Chronic Renal Insufficiency.
Click to expand...

It sounds like adding more water to Trixie's food may help. I'd look at Dr. Lisa's list and see what the phos levels are in what you're feeding. You might want to send a PM to Marje. She's knowledgeable about renal issues.
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PHOSPHORUS Q

Morning Amy, so glad Trixie was able to give a urine specimen. :-D I just checked Maggie's recent Labs, and her Phosphorus is 4.5, and our labs have the same range. Yes, that's what I've heard, too, that the phosphorus ranges in our Labs are meant for kittens. The Vet says Maggie's phosphorus is okay, but I think it could be lower. Ann & Tess has a great link up in her ss on some foods lower in phosphorus that were helpful with Mags Yes, Marje is really experienced with renal issues and helped a lot with Maggie. 'd give her a pm.
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PHOSPHORUS Q

Hi Amy, glad to hear the vet trip was quick and unremarkable :-D Nice slide into the lagoon there, too! I hope you guys have a great day and someone will help you figure out her labs.
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PHOSPHORUS Q

Hi Amy

While I hesitate to say this because I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, "typically" (but not always) simple dehydration is indicated by an elevated BUN but a normal creatinine. Also, if a cat is fed a really high protein diet, BUN is usually elevated to some extent. Most often (but not always), if you see the creat starting to creep up, it's an indicator of CKD. That's why the urine specific gravity is so important because it's another piece of the puzzle. If her USG is totally normal, then I'd agree that the creat and BUN are elevated due to dehydration. If the USG is low, indicating she isn't concentrating her urine, I'd consider that. along with the barely elevated creat, an early sign that she might be starting with some renal issues.

You are correct that the range on the phosphorus includes kittens and they do run higher than adults. If Trix is older than 12 (sorry, I don't remember), then her phosphorus should be less than 4.5. If she's younger than 12, it should be less than 5.5. Again, it's the entire picture you have to look at. If a cat has normal BUN, creat, and USG but the phosphorus is elevated, I'd look for something other than CKD because it's not typically the first sign of CKD. First you see the USG decreasing, then you see the BUN increasing followed or accompanied by the creat going up. The good thing is Trix's creat is barely out of normal range :-D :-D

So still crossing paws that the USG comes back that she is totally concentrating her urine like she should be! You want to see it above 1.040. Again...the lab often shows the limits of normal being 1.008-1.060 but if a cat is below 1.040, they aren't fully concentrating their urine as they should be.

Hugs and good USG vibes!
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PMPS 108

She has sailed into her early PMPS (due to the time change) quite nicely now.

Thank you so much for the info, everyone. Marje, you're not being a Debbie Downer. I know we could very well be looking at the start of CKD...hopefully not, but I know the chances are it's more likely CKD than dehydration. Still hoping for a good pee result, though...you never know! Knowing she could be starting to have renal issues does make me sad, but I also know we can manage it.

Also, thank you for spelling out the basics so clearly. I do know a teeny weeny bit about CKD, but every time I go to Tanya's site I get insanely overwhelmed, and the numbers start spinning around my head. The guide you've given me is a huge help.

Trix is 11-ish, so she's fast-approaching that next level for phosphorous. I might as well start checking out lower phosphorous foods now, so we can begin easing her into the change.
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PMPS 108

Trix is having another nice cycle. :mrgreen: Marje is brilliant. We need to learn about kidney disease too.
Liz
 
Re: 3/9 Trixie AMPS 106 +2.5 138 +4.5 97 PMPS 108

Amy

I know Tanya's is overwhelming. I'm lucky that it wasn't quite so much when I started using it so I've been able to add on to my knowledge slowly as she's added pages to it. I am happy to help ANY time at all (and thanks, Liz, but not I'm not brilliant...just living the CKD thing ;-) ).

It's probably not a bad idea to start looking at those lower phosphorus/lower carb foods but I thought I'd wait to see what her tests come back as before I threw that one at you. ;-) ;-) You're a great and amazing mom!!!!
 
Thanks again for all the help....it, well, helps!!!

Could be a busy night here....hopefully she'll set up a surf now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top