3/8 Tigger 36,27,48,150,AMPS 228,+2 36, UPDATE

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CarolandTigger

CarolandTigger

Member Since 2015
Here we go again! This is what happened the other morning! You can see by yesterday's numbers he was ok..not great but ok. So this might be a bounce? I first got a 36 then the 27 immediately afterwards, thinking it was a wonky test. NO SYMPTOMS WHATSOEVER. Rubbed the Karo syrup on his gums (he doesn't like ) and gave 2 tsp FF gravy high carb food. Waiting 15 min to retest. Am I doing it right????
 
CarolandTigger said:
Here we go again! This is what happened the other morning! You can see by yesterday's numbers he was ok..not great but ok. So this might be a bounce? I first got a 36 then the 27 immediately afterwards, thinking it was a wonky test. NO SYMPTOMS WHATSOEVER. Rubbed the Karo syrup on his gums (he doesn't like ) and gave 2 tsp FF gravy high carb food. Waiting 15 min to retest. Am I doing it right????
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Even with no obvious signs you need to be testing and retesting.

The 31 you got is a AMPS test according to your sheet. That means he could have been lower during the night or may still be dropping. Please retest and post.

BTW He earned a reduction 2 days ago with the 41 he hit.
 
I see Tigger had a DKA episode in February. That complicates skipping shots so you may need more advice from experienced people on how to proceed with the low numbers and a previous DKA
 
Just retested...he's at 48. So let me get this straight. A reading of under 50 even if one time only earns a reduction for him? By .25? Another question. I just given him the 2 teaspoons of high carb, should I give them the rest of the can? He's playful, he's meowing for more food. So should I give them the rest of the high carb or a can of his regular low-carb? Don't worry, I'll be retesting all morning!
 
CarolandTigger said:
Just retested...he's at 48. So let me get this straight. A reading of under 50 even if one time only earns a reduction for him? By .25? Another question. I just given him the 2 teaspoons of high carb, should I give them the rest of the can? He's playful, he's meowing for more food. So should I give them the rest of the high carb or a can of his regular low-carb? Don't worry, I'll be retesting all morning!
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Do not give more food yet. Retest again in 15 minutes. The karo can bring his numbers up but only for a short time. You want him hungry if you need to give more HC food.
 
He's probably meowing for more food because he's feeling the low BG. I would not feed him the whole can because you don't want to send his BGs to the moon, and because you want him to stay hungry in case you need him to eat more throughout the day - plus you don't want him barfing from the richness of the food.
 
Can you update the spreadsheet and your title with the latest readings. That will give anyone coming in all the information in one spot. Thanks :)
 
CarolandTigger said:
A reading of under 50 even if one time only earns a reduction for him? By .25?
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That is according to the modified TR protocol here. Some CG's wait for 3x under 50, but that's usually after kitty has shown to not hold reductions well.
No matter what, Tigger has earned a reduction today with a reading below 40.
 
Andy & Pimp said:
That is according to the modified TR protocol here. Some CG's wait for 3x under 50, but that's usually after kitty has shown to not hold reductions well.
No matter what, Tigger has earned a reduction today with a reading below 40.
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Andy there was a discussion I found (but of course can't find now) about whether holding for the 3X under was a good idea. As you say at any rate today definitely earns that reduction!
 
3x under 50 is an ECID situation. Some cats don't hold reductions well and they are good possible candidates. Other good candidates are long-term diabetics. But frequent testing is what will tell you whether or not your cat is a good candidate for 3x under 50. If you don't test frequently (and I do see lots of days without mid-cycle tests on Tigger's SS), then 3x under 50 is putting your cat at risk, as it is an aggressive approach to treatment. Without those mid-cycle tests, you have no idea if the cat has gone under 50 or not - possibly many times!

No matter what yes, today a reduction has absolutely been earned.
 
Yes..he's up to 150 and this is 1 hr after his low reading, and 2 tsp of high carb. He wants food NOW. Immediate concern...do I give low carb or rest of high carb, and do I shoot him a new reduced dose of 2u or skip?
 
I was not here yesterday,, so couldn't get a lot of mid cycle tests. If I could try and get up during the night and test him, it might be helpful. I'll worry about that later. I thought ketones only appeared when they were high, and usually caused by high readings, no insulin, and/or infection
 
CarolandTigger said:
Yes..he's up to 150 and this is 1 hr after his low reading, and 2 tsp of high carb. He wants food NOW. Immediate concern...do I give low carb or rest of high carb, and do I shoot him a new reduced dose of 2u or skip?
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The high carb will still be boosting his numbers up. I would give a small meal of low carb and retest again in 30-45 minutes.

Could you put a question about dosing in your title. I can't advise what to do about dose but because he has had DKA having some insulin is necessary. Ketones CAN happen at any number although it is more common at higher numbers, with an infection, not eating and not enough insulin.

If you revise your post title then you can get some more people weighing in on what to do..something like DKA cat hypo numbers dose advice?? as well as updating your readings in the title
 
Andy & Pimp said:
I think the .25 reduction will be recommended, with increased monitoring for the next few cycles while the depot drains.
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But should she shoot NOW. He has not had his morning shot...with DKA in the history I don't know what the best route would be


ETA Tigger was hospitalized for 3 days Feb 8-10 for DKA
 
So glad to see that he is up. 27 is very scary. About the ketone, Bubba was throwing them in the 200's.........you just never know!
 
Yes, this is what I don't know how to handle..do I give him his dose or not? I just gave him 1/2 can low carb. Waiting 30 min to test again...then will see about shot?
 
CarolandTigger said:
Yes, this is what I don't know how to handle..do I give him his dose or not? I just gave him 1/2 can low carb. Waiting 30 min to test again...then will see about shot?
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Hoping one of the more experience members can weigh in. Let's see where his numbers are at the next test. If no one can give a definite answer you could consider doing a 1/2 dose for this time if his numbers are still going up...but let's see if anyone else can weigh in first. Will shooting late mess up your schedule?
 
Also could you update your spreadsheet...if someone new comes in to advise they only have the 36 number unless they read through this whole thread. Thanks :)
 
IF you choose to shoot now, two things to remember: Your next shot has to be 12 hours from when you shoot. Can you afford to be off-schedule like that?

And, the numbers you are seeing now are food-influenced, which means he could possibly drop like a rock again once that insulin onsets.

IMO, I would skip the shot, let the depot drain, and start with the new dose in the evening. Just my 2 cents.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
IF you choose to shoot now, two things to remember: Your next shot has to be 12 hours from when you shoot. Can you afford to be off-schedule like that?

And, the numbers you are seeing now are food-influenced, which means he could possibly drop like a rock again once that insulin onsets.

IMO, I would skip the shot, let the depot drain, and start with the new dose in the evening. Just my 2 cents.
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It looks like she skipped the shot this AM so Tigger hasn't had insulin since last night.
 
He just tested at 228 so I've given him the newly reduced dose of 2u. When he had DKA it seemed to start when we skipped too many doses.
 
CarolandTigger said:
He just tested at 228 so I've given him the newly reduced dose of 2u. When he had DKA it seemed to start when we skipped too many doses.
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That was my concern about skipping the shot because of the previous DKA. As Bobbie said though you need to monitor carefully to make sure that the depot is not going to bring the numbers down fast again.

Also remember that you shot time will be off by 2 hours???? I can't tell how late you were from your regular time
 
I'll be 2 hrs off from shot time. I'm here all day, so not a problem for me. It might actually work out ok with the time change coming up
 
CarolandTigger said:
I'll be 2 hrs off from shot time. I'm here all day, so not a problem for me. It might actually work out ok with the time change coming up
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That is good. Since the timing isn't a problem my thoughts are that is was better to shoot. You are just doing the time change adjustment a bit early ;)

Just keep a check on Tigger's numbers. After hypos some kitties are more sensitive to insulin. That plus the depot from the larger previous dose could make things unpredictable. The normal reaction would be much higher numbers from bouncing after those lows like he did 2 days ago.

Good luck with the reduction
 
My daughter threw a question at me this morning when I was telling her that the vet said to "watch for clinical symptoms of a low" instead of testing. Well, the times this has happened, Tigger has had NO clinical symptoms. So my daughter said if I hadnt tested, when he was 27, and if I had gone ahead and fed him his normal food, then given him his insulin...it wouldn't taken effect for 2-3 hours anyway, so what would have been the problem with just doing what I usually do with him? I'm still trying to understand that myself.
 
As you said not all kitties show clinical symptoms but there is still damage happening to the body with numbers that low if they are not reversed. If you had just fed Tigger and given him a shot there was no way you could know if he was still dropping. Once a kitty gets that low it can sometimes be very hard to bring the numbers up again without ER help.

True the insulin doesn't always take effect for 2-3 hours, but if the regular food did not bring him up then he would have extra insulin pulling him down further. You can't "guess" what might happen. There is no way to know if his pancreas suddenly kicked in for a period of time...if that were the case then you would have been adding outside insulin to the insulin the body was producing. Safety is the key point when dealing with diabetics, especially with Tigger where he is very unpredictable

ETA Remember that you gave Tigger Karo and HC food several times to bring his numbers up to a safe point.
 
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Thanks...good explanation! What really helped me this morning, so I didn't panic like I did when this first happened recently, is I had copied the instructions for Lantus and hypos, and protocol...and taped it to the inside of my pantry door where his food and supplies are. A quick look at the chart, and I didn't have to guess..I knew what to do, or my husband would have also. I highly recommend a "cheat sheet" posted somewhere for quick reference!
 
CarolandTigger said:
Thanks...good explanation! What really helped me this morning, so I didn't panic like I did when this first happened recently, is I had copied the instructions for Lantus and hypos, and protocol...and taped it to the inside of my pantry door where his food and supplies are. A quick look at the chart, and I didn't have to guess..I knew what to do, or my husband would have also. I highly recommend a "cheat sheet" posted somewhere for quick reference!
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Absolutely! Good job today Carol. Keep on monitoring him today and tonight.
 
CarolandTigger said:
Thanks...good explanation! What really helped me this morning, so I didn't panic like I did when this first happened recently, is I had copied the instructions for Lantus and hypos, and protocol...and taped it to the inside of my pantry door where his food and supplies are. A quick look at the chart, and I didn't have to guess..I knew what to do, or my husband would have also. I highly recommend a "cheat sheet" posted somewhere for quick reference!
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Great idea. Just having the information handy stops the initial panic. I remember my first low and the utter frantic state I was in. Luckily I had printed out a copy of treating hypos and made it through fine with the help of some very kind folks here.
 
You are doing great. My Max doesn't always look for food when he drops into the 40's. I have woken him up to catch a test after considering to let him sleep, only to find he's getting way too low. Other times he looks for food. Not only is every cat different. Every cycle given the exact numbers can be different. They keep us on our toes.
 
Update! He's back down to 36 at +2 basically. His spreadsheet might be a little confusing. 2 hours ago I finally gave him 2u after he tested at 218. That was probably from the high carb food and syrup, but I was afraid to skip because of his recent DKA. Now I'm not sure what to do..wait and retest? Give him more high carb? Karo? Just wait???
 
CarolandTigger said:
Update! He's back down to 36 at +2 basically. His spreadsheet might be a little confusing. 2 hours ago I finally gave him 2u after he tested at 218. That was probably from the high carb food and syrup, but I was afraid to skip because of his recent DKA. Now I'm not sure what to do..wait and retest? Give him more high carb? Karo? Just wait???
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Because of the earlier hypo I would give him Karo and HC to start and retest in 15 minutes

ETA It would appear that he never did properly clear the low numbers from earlier
 
Also can you put the "911" code back up and add "hypo again" to your title. I may have to be away shortly and I want to make sure that people know this is a new hypo
 
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