3/8 Moe: AMPS=555, shoot 0.5; +1=530;+3=386; +5=380;+7=364;+8=406;+10=498;PMPS=536

Erin and Moe (GA)

Erin and Moe (GA)

Member Since 2019
Sigh. Here we bounce again. AMPS=555. I’m doing a curve today for my vet, she plans to increase Moe’s dose to 1.0 based on what his numbers look like. :(
 
Sigh. Here we bounce again. AMPS=555. I’m doing a curve today for my vet, she plans to increase Moe’s dose to 1.0 based on what his numbers look like. :(
 
Well...I'll try this again...I thought I posted a reply...but it's not here...

Have you reviewed the dosing methods? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

Once you've made a selection you will increase by .25 - if you're on TR that's every 3 days, on SLGS it's slower - about every 7 days. You're ready for an increase to .75 based on the numbers you already have.

I would not wait until seeing your vet to increase - however you do not want to increase too fast - and not from .5 to 1 unit. For what it's worth, I don't get dosing adjustment advice from my vet at all...since I joined this group and manage Luci's diabetes myself..
 
Sue and Luci said:
Have you read the dosing methods here?
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

If you review and select a method you'll know when to increase and decrease. Much easier than getting advice from your vet. And cheaper too.

You should only increase by .25 and hold the dose based on the method you've chosen (either 3 days on TR or 7 days on SLGS).
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Yes, I’ve read the info on dosing methods. I haven’t settled on one, since I’m still trying to fully understand them.

And I don’t know how to get the constant bouncing under control.
 
The bouncing you're seeing today is from that nice run in the blues the night of 3/6.

The basics of the TR vs SLGS is how often you can test, whether or not kitty is on dry food (if so, can't do TR)...after that it's a matter of increasing/decreasing based on the numbers. It would be wise just to pick one and follow it for a week or two, rather than none at all...then if you want to change you can do so. Most people start on SLGS because it's slower and then you have time to learn about it. I did, and then soon moved on to TR because I wanted to increase the dose more often.

Most cats bounce in the early days - it's just their bodies natural defense and way of responding to lower numbers.
 
Sue and Luci said:
The bouncing you're seeing today is from that nice run in the blues the night of 3/6.

The basics of the TR vs SLGS is how often you can test, whether or not kitty is on dry food (if so, can't do TR)...after that it's a matter of increasing/decreasing based on the numbers. It would be wise just to pick one and follow it for a week or two, rather than none at all...then if you want to change you can do so. Most people start on SLGS because it's slower and then you have time to learn about it. I did, and then soon moved on to TR because I wanted to increase the dose more often.

Most cats bounce in the early days - it's just their bodies natural defense and way of responding to lower numbers.
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Thank you @Sue and Luci. I’m leaning towards TR as well but haven’t figured out how bouncing fits with dosing changes. I feel like I need to get control/steady numbers before I start changing doses.
 
I understand how you feel...however you're not going to get control at this dose - and it's important to adopt one of the dosing methods before changing the dose...it's kind of a catch 22...can't get to better numbers without a dosing method...

If you're comfortable with TR, then go with it...and if so, it's definitely time to increase by .25 - bouncing may happen for weeks to months yet...it's just a matter of time and allowing Moe to acclimate to those better numbers.
 
Erin and Moe said:
Yes, I’ve read the info on dosing methods. I haven’t settled on one, since I’m still trying to fully understand them.
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what questions do you have about them?
Erin and Moe said:
Thank you @Sue and Luci I feel like I need to get control/steady numbers before I start changing doses.
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the thing is you won’t get control until you arrive at a good dose.
Erin and Moe said:
I’m doing a curve today for my vet, she plans to increase Moe’s dose to 1.0 based on what his numbers look like. :(
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Based on the nadirs Moe has been seeing on this dose .5u is too large of an increase regardless of if you are following TR or SLGS.

Moe has been diabetic since dx in September of 2019. I see you stopped insulin therapy on October 1st 2019. The numbers do not reflect he was in remission as remission is defined as a kitty staying in normal numbers (50-80 range on a human meter) all the time.

So you know, the longer a cat has had diabetes, the less likely it will go into remission.

You came here ( the best place for a diabetic kitty to be) for guidance and have been receiving it. Give it a fair chance.

Don’t waste any more time.
Take the leap of faith.
You will be glad you did. :cool:
 
How unfortunate this was the curve cycle instead of the PM of the sixth. Has your vet seen those numbers? Today Moe is bouncing, so today’s data is not helpful in determining what to do with his dose. We try to answer the question “how low is this dose taking the cat” when deciding how to change the dose. SLGS would say keep the dose, TR would have you increase to 0.75 units.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
How unfortunate this was the curve cycle instead of the PM of the sixth. Has your vet seen those numbers? Today Moe is bouncing, so today’s data is not helpful in determining what to do with his dose. We try to answer the question “how low is this dose taking the cat” when deciding how to change the dose. SLGS would say keep the dose, TR would have you increase to 0.75 units.
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I haven’t sent anything to my vet yet. I was going to finish his curve tonight and send the sheet to her tomorrow. We have discussed verbally where his number were at the middle of last week, and she thought he’d need to increase to 1 unit from current 0.5 based on that discussion.

Question regarding bouncing: is is safe to increase his dose during the bounce, or should I wait until he levels out before changing? I would like to go with TR but I work full time, so I’m not home to test throughout the day. Is it safe for me to follow the TR protocol?
 
Yes, the dose can be increased during the bounce. What you do not want to do, is increase when the bounce is breaking.
 
Erin and Moe said:
How do I know the bounce is breaking?
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That is a very good question.

Bounce clearing cycles have a downward momentum. In other words, the BG levels are dropping lower, like into the yellow or blue range as the bounce clears.

Sometimes, if there is a stretch of mostly steady yellow numbers, that can be another indication that the bounce is starting to clear or is clearing.

Like you saw on 3/1/20.
Or on 2/24 AMPS was a black, then Moe slide right into the blues at +10 and stayed in the blue range numbers for the PM cycle.

Those black numbers for the AM and PM cycles, 3/8/20? NOPE, not clearing a bounce, in fact he's in the middle of a bounce. Black = bouncing. At least for now in Moe's case. He'll likely bounce a bit when he gets down to more normally range numbers too.

This is a test, this is only a test. No pass/fail grade, simply trying to have you see the patterns yourself on Moe's SS. Do you see another bounce clearing cycle for Moe recently? See if you can id that bounce clearing yourself.
 
Deb & Wink said:
That is a very good question.

Bounce clearing cycles have a downward momentum. In other words, the BG levels are dropping lower, like into the yellow or blue range as the bounce clears.

Sometimes, if there is a stretch of mostly steady yellow numbers, that can be another indication that the bounce is starting to clear or is clearing.

Like you saw on 3/1/20.
Or on 2/24 AMPS was a black, then Moe slide right into the blues at +10 and stayed in the blue range numbers for the PM cycle.

Those black numbers for the AM and PM cycles, 3/8/20? NOPE, not clearing a bounce, in fact he's in the middle of a bounce. Black = bouncing. At least for now in Moe's case. He'll likely bounce a bit when he gets down to more normally range numbers too.

This is a test, this is only a test. No pass/fail grade, simply trying to have you see the patterns yourself on Moe's SS. Do you see another bounce clearing cycle for Moe recently? See if you can id that bounce clearing yourself.
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After PM shot on 3/6? That was a scary sudden drop though....
 
OOOH! You passed. Wait a dall garn minute. I said there was no pass/fail on this.

Yes, that 3/6 PM was a bounce breaking.
Now imagine you had shot a dose increase into that "scary sudden drop" and think about how much lower the numbers may have gone.

Methinks you would have been having an all night pajama party, trying to get low numbers up to a safer level.
 
Deb & Wink said:
OOOH! You passed. Wait a dall garn minute. I said there was no pass/fail on this.

Yes, that 3/6 PM was a bounce breaking.
Now imagine you had shot a dose increase into that "scary sudden drop" and think about how much lower the numbers may have gone.

Methinks you would have been having an all night pajama party, trying to get low numbers up to a safer level.
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Ok, I see. That makes sense. So then assuming tomorrow morning’s AMPS is still in the 500s, would an increase to 0.75 be reasonable? My vet is going to want to increase to 1.0 when she sees Moe’s spreadsheet.
Edited to add, I am home all day tomorrow to monitor.
 
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