3/7 Trixie PMPS 263 +2 303 +4 303

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Amy&TrixieCat

Amy&TrixieCat

Member Since 2011
Yesterday

Early condo for Trix today...she's feeling radiant; me - not so much, since I was up almost all night testing. She's helping me write her condo with some radiant Trixie snuggles...

We had a nice, easy fluids session last night...no ouchie poke and she just hung out pretty mellow. We still haven't been able to convince her to snack on a treat or two while the fluids are flowing...I think she's still a little edgy about the whole idea, but we're making progress! She crunched a treat as soon as we left the bathroom. I picked up two more bags of the liquid gold from my vetty last night at $25 per bag. Yikes. Thanks to contributions from some of our wonderful, amazing LL family members here, I didn't have to get lines or needles, saving me $6 per bag. Once we rerun Trix's BW, we will have to find a more reasonable source...either that, or take out a second mortgage on the house. This shortage is insane.

My dosage questions:
Technically, Trix did not earn a reducie last night, but I am thinking of taking her dose down a tad tonight...maybe down to 2.00, or possibly even 1.75. The fluids are obviously having a huge impact on her numbers, especially during the cycle we administer them. For the most part, it seems like giving fluids in the evenings is really going to work best with our work schedules, although sometimes we can probably do daytime fluids. Anyway, with giving the fluids in the evening, the BG monitoring is going to kill us (primarily me) if we have to spend every night testing like I had to last night. When she was still dropping at +5.75, even though she wasn't below 50, I finally busted out some HC (much to her delight!) to try and stop things so I could get some rest. I stayed up and retested an hour later...the HC kept her flat, but didn't make her go up the way I was hoping it would.

I'm not quite sure how else to address the long, slow, drops in the evenings. We are only a few days in to this, but this does seem to be a consistent result for Trix. Sadly, I just can't spend my days off catching up on sleep like I could in my youth...there is just way too much that needs to be done around the house.

Any thoughts?? I'd appreciate an ideas, insights, suggestions...her SS is up to date with last night's info.

I'm heading BTB, and DH is going to get this morning's +2 so I can hopefully sleep till almost +4. Since we are not in a fluids cycle, I expect things to be low key (but hopefully not ugly bounce like yesterday), but you never know..he'll let me know the +2 number and I'll make my sleep decision based on that. And, I may attempt solo fluids around +6 or so, since I am off today.

Thanks for any ideas!

Amy
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Hi Amy, I don't know too much about dosing and fluids, but I will be interested to see what others say. The one time that Cleo received fluids at the vet (and I was testing) she dropped into the 30's a few hours later. I am sending you mega safe, low blue, surfing vines for Trixie tonight, so you can get some sleep. :YMHUG:
Love that Trixie is still exuding radiance :-D
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

If you want to try a reduction, I would try the 2.00 first.
If fluids make them drop in BGs for a few hours, then I guess (I'm not experienced with fluids) giving the fluids between +2 and +3 would make the nadir lower than without the fluids.
I am planning to sleep all day tomorrow. I hope you get some much needed rest today. As far as giving fluids solo. I have done it. It's not too hard. Get everything set up and ready to go ahead of time, then bring in Trixie. Good luck.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

I think a reduction sounds reasonable under the circumstances. At least until you get the b/w redone. I hope you get some good sleep this morning. Good luck with the solo fluids.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Morning Amy ~O) ~O) ~O)

Wonderful amps! Surf well Trixie. :mrgreen:

I will agree with you - the fluids are obviously making a difference in her BG's. I'm no dose expert, but I think I'd try the 2.00 first see how that goes. I do know too that somewhere along the line you need to be able to sleep, take care of you too. I hope the cycle pattern for the cycle when the fluids is administered becomes easily discernible soon, then maybe the testing can be cut back some? I wish you guys luck. It's great to read that Trixie is Trixie, and that she feels good.

I hoe there will be an end t the shortage of fluids soon. crazy!

Enjoy your day today Amy, I hope all goes well.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

I would think a reducie would be a good idea, but that is just me. You will be a pro at it in no time. Wow on the cost though. Have a great day Amy!
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Morning Amy, checking in on you and Trixie. Wow on the staying up all night and the drop after giving fluids. I agree with everyone else here on taking her down. You need to take care of you, too, easier said than done. I wish the three weeks were up so you could get the recheck and see what's different or going on with little Trixie. That's great she is so easy to administer the fluids. I was reading how relaxed she was in yesterday's condo.
Sending lots of hugs, healing vines and scritches from us.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

This is shaping up to be just like yesterday, so it seems a pattern is emerging....slow, long, steady drops that need close monitoring during the fluids cycle, then climbing during the following non-fluid cycle.

I was thinking I would try fluids by myself today, but in the interest of gathering further data, now I'm wondering if I should be consistent and not change both her dose and the time we've been doing fluids at once. Plus, we have the daylight savings time thing to toss into the mix, too.

Thanks for the visits and thoughts, everyone....I'd love to sleep the day away, but sleeping till 10:00 was already quite the luxury. I'll be moving in slo-mo, but I've got to get at least some "menial labor" done around here :lol: . Big sigh....

ETA...I just gave her a little Paw Lickin' Chicken for a snack...one happy kitty! I fed it to her last year, too, and she loved it then, but it made her BGs run all over the map. I'm giving it a second go-round (since it is lower in phos than Wellness) to see if that was a fluke.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Amy --

I tend to think like you do -- change one thing, gather some data to see what the change tells you and once you have a sense of what's going on, change something else. I suspect the dose, timing of fluids, etc. is all going to be trial and error since it's an ECID thing.

Another thought, and this may not be feasible, is to try giving the fluids before nadir. If you're giving fluids at PM +2, the effect of the fluids is most likely back to back with when Lantus is having most of it's effect. If the fluids are pulling the numbers down on their own, the Lantus may be latching on the the lower numbers and "helping" them down even further. If you administer the fluids as Lantus is wearing off, it may keep the 2nd half of the cycle a bit flatter. Just a thought.....
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Sienne - Marje had suggested the same thing...fluids after nadir. It's not feasible to do that 100% of the time, because of our work schedule, but we might be able to do it for part of the week. DH is off weekends and could try to do it mid-day then; my schedule changes every week, but I could try to do it on my days off, too. That was why I was toying with trying it today at around noon-ish. But, as I mentioned, I don't want to change both dose and timing at the same time, and I'm not sure if DH would be able to do them by himself tomorrow while I'm at work...if we don't get a few solid days in, we won't be very efficient/consistent with our data gathering.

I wonder about these post-fluid cycles, too...I guess they're probably just straight up bounces....
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

My brain is still working on this thing...dose change, or fluid time change?

Now that I'm thinking about it more....I wonder if we should try to doing fluids closer to bedtime - usually around Trix's +4 or so...which is also really past her usual, "under-normal-circumstances" nadir time. We would have to do some middle-of-the-night testing at least initially, to see what's happening, but it does seem that the closer together the shot and fluids are, the more trouble it is with her numbers - at least from the data we've gathered so far, that's kind of what we've seen. If we do it at bedtime and the testing proves that it is a safe(r) time for her, we could do it consistently at that time. I'm so conditioned to do any sort of "treatments" on a schedule, I guess the idea of doing fluids at any old time, as long as the previous batch is absorbed, makes me anxious :roll: :lol: !

Thoughts on that one?? Thanks again :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: !
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

We do 200ml at the time Frank eats every other day. He gets insulin in the back, then fluids in the opposite front shoulder area. We switch sides every time he gets fluids. The fluids don't make a huge difference in our case, that I have seen. If you kitty is real dehydrated, though, there is little to "carry" the insulin. Hydration, giving a better carrier system is going to bring numbers lower, but once you have that evened out, it becomes more stable because the carrier system isn't changing as much. Hope that made sense. Lol
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Too, on fluids we have had to raise his dose, so it isn't a predictor of a lower dose. I'm no expert, but my though is due to the ECID thing, you'll need to go based on what you are comfortable with and see where it goes. If you reduce and it doesn't work how you expected, you can always bump it up next cycle.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Amy

You are doing a great job at this. I know it's a lot to juggle, plus no sleep, plus work.

First and foremost, if a CG needs to take a dose down for their own health then they should do it. I am a firm supporter in knowing your cat and knowing yourself. You are doing the best for her...you always have. But you also have to think of yourselves.

Having said that, if you want to try a change to when you give fluids before you try a dose change, simply because I know you aren't used to her being high blue like this at +4, then it's worth a try. You've been gathering data and making very good observations. It's interesting that when you did fluids at PM+2, you did not see as big a drop as you did last night when you did them at PM+1. She also did not have a big drop when you did them at PM+3.25. So I think you are on target with the further away you get from shot time, the less drop you see after fluids.

Only you know whether you can do that for a few nights to see what she does and at what point you have a level of comfort. You can always drop the dose back if the experiments with fluid times don't work.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie AMPS 98 +2 156 +4 178 - DOSE THOUGHTS?

Thanks everyone....such wonderful feedback from my wonderful LL family!

So, I think the plan for tonight will be to try the fluids at +4 or so, grab some middle of the night tests (DH's turn!!!!), and go from there. I have a feeling she's going to be high again at PMPS, so I will probably hold her dose for now, but that may change, too, if we're still seeing such big, long, drawn-out drops.
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie PMPS 263

No big surprise with this PMPS...I figured she was following the same path as yesterday. I held her dose at 2.25U, and we'll do fluids at about +4 or so, then grab some middle-of-the-night tests to see what's shakin'....
 
Re: 3/7 Trixie PMPS 263 +2 303

Our first pink since last June :sad: ...she had a 50/50 mix of Paw Lickin' and BFF for din din tonight...happy kitty and CPC without a spec of FortiFlora....but pink :YMSIGH: ...
 
Wrong kind of flat, Trix...Paw Lickin' will probably have to come off the menu. She loves it so...but her BGs just don't work with it. I really would love to ditch Wellness, but I don't think there are any other options, other than going with all BFF - which she does love, but I don't know about going with a 100% seafood diet....

We'll be doing fluids tonight...should be interesting, given our starting point here...
 
Awww Amy I'm sorry, I totally sympathize on the fuds :sad: ...the ones Chyna super loves she is allergic to or they seem to spike her :YMSIGH: . I'm going to try Nature's Variety Duck next...I know she likes it, not sure on the allergies as it has turkey in it but it's LC and low phos...

I hope the fluids will help pull her down from the yucky pinks. I'm glad you have DH to help out so you can get some tests in at different hours and still (hopefully) get some zzzzz's. I'm glad the fluids session went so well for you last night and hope it's just as good tonight. Many hugs to you as you juggle all this :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Hi Amy,
Thank you very much for checking in on Lucy every day even though you have your hands and mind full with Trixie.
You have been so kind to Lucy and me, and I feel terrible for not coming here to express my support. :oops:
I have been scanning your condos, and have been wanting to say something because I had the same problem with fluids and BG dive.
I am still working tonight, and haven't been able to read all the suggestions and advice you have received, so I'm just going to share my experience.
Sorry if someone has already mentioned it or if you are already doing these things I am going to say.

I used to give fluids whenever I see an opportunity (=Lucy is relaxed), and that often dropped her BG really fast and sharply.
She was already on sub-q fluids before she was dx'd with diabetes for the 2nd time, so when I started the fluids, I didn't have to think about it affecting her number.
When I noticed that her BG drops on a sub-q day, I did some experiments and made some adjustments, and here is what's working for her.

* I space out the shot location for insulin and fluids as far apart as possible on a fluids cycle. I give fluids at the scruff, so on a fluids cycle, I shoot insulin closer to her bum - somewhere below her waist where I can still make a decent tent.
If Lucy gives me a choice, I try to alternate side as well. For example if I shoot insulin on her right butt, I do fluids on her scruff but slightly on her left side, not much just a bit.
In my head, I picture excess fluids running down her left side and settling in her left arm pit until absorbed, and not messing with the insulin shot on her right hind end. :lol:
It's probably just my imagination, but I find that "insulin on butt, fluids on scruff" definitely makes a difference.

* I find that giving fluids right in the middle of a cycle doesn't affect her BG as much. Sometimes, I see a drop that I think was caused by fluids, but it's mild and usually happens in the next cycle following the fluids cycle, whereas fluids too close to the shot time have dropped her number like a rock.
Since I can't do mid-cycle fluids consistently during AM cycles, I now give fluids in PM cycles, right before bed because I know Lucy doesn't drop suddenly if it's done at around +6 or +7-ish.
But if her number is already low, I have to stay awake for a long time, or I skip fluids and do it in the next cycle.
I know you mentioned that it's difficult to give fluids past nadir due to work schedule, same as why I can't do it in the AM cycles.....
I hope the +4 schedule you are experimenting tonight will be the perfect schedule for both you and Trixie!

* I used to give her 125ml at a time, just because I used to buy 250ml bags.... habit of trying not to waste stuff.
Since I changed the volume to 100ml, I seldom see these drops.
When she got 150ml at the vet, she did a scary drop, so I think volume matters too.
I remember you mentioned you were giving her 150ml for the first few days and then 100ml.
Maybe her BG will settle once the dose is down to 100ml too!

That's it!
I'm sure I didn't say anything new, but wanted to share what's working for Lucy.
Hugs to you!!!! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
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