3/5 CRYSTAL - vomiting, constipated, need advice. phoned vet. what do I do about dose due soon

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suki & crystal (GA)

suki & crystal (GA)

Member Since 2014
yesterday

Good morning all in LL,

Crystal was rather high and flat during last night's cycle and at AMPS but has since come down to better figures. Depending on what happens today, we might try another R trial tonight. I'll update her SS regularly so that Sandy can make a decision.

A beautiful bright sunny Spring day here so just off to take Bolly the hound for a long walk round the vineyards and get some fresh air whilst DH clears a mountain of oak leaves. all 4 cats enjoying some sunbathing and rolling around outside as well.

Suki & Crystal
 
Sounds like a great day for the kitties. It is very cold and windy here. No spring in sight yet.
If it gets in the 30's we think we are having a heat wave. LOL Wishing you the best on the R trail. Enjoy your walk. Peg and Toby
 
Hi Serryn & Peg, thanks for looking in - some good news, just done a +8 and got a BLUE :cool: at 167! I wonder how much lower she wil go?

Had a lovely walk with Bolly (well, I walk and he shoots off at a rate of knots tracking something or other) and then some long overdue weeding in the garden, very theraputic chopping off their heads. So much to do at this time of year with everything bursting into life. Back is aching now so time for a lunchtime break. See you later, paws crossed for even better news!

Suki & Crystal
 
Crystal dropping a bit fast for me - at +9.75 140 and now vomiting white foamy liquid and showing signs of acute constipation, growling, straining in the LB. Have managed to get a little olive oil into her mouth and keeping a close wathc on her. Advice please about dose tonight, definately think the R is off for the time being. Would appreciate some experienced eyes.
 
Actually, is it possible to get Crystal to a vetty? It sounds like she is very uncomfortable, if not in pain....
 
Amy, she had this once before around Christmas when she was blocked for a few hours. I haven't been putting the pumpkin in her food for the last few days as I've run out, perhaps she isn't getting enough fibre at the moment. I'm just going to see how she goes over the next hour, she's sleeping now. She's at +10 and I don't know what to do about her shot tonight.
 
Problem with Verio one touch meter, recording Contol Solution after the figures, just on the phone to them, waiting for an answer but they don't think the machine is working properly, great! Anyone else have this problem?

Edit, no problem with machine, just bad strips. Have changed box. Crystal at the same reading so hopefully she will not go lower for the moment.
 
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By any chance do you have a back up meter, or access to a place to purchase one right away? Ugh, when it rains it pours, right?
 
Just edited my previous post, machine okay, bad strips so have changed box. Another problem, hubby out in the car not due back for an hour so will have to wait. When this happened before she did eventually pass a very large solid poo on her own after a couple of hours.
 
I know you aren't looking for advice from someone you don't know, but last week, my civvie, Tux, was doing the same.
He strained hard, and cried in the LB, then vomited. I felt it was urgent, as he was in obvious pain.
Vet administered a small volume enema,to see if that would do the trick. It took a couple hours to work, as it seemed to just soften the stool.
I also learned from another member here, how to do tummy massages, to try to keep things moving better for him. He enjoys that.
I hope Crystal feels better soon. Sending poopy vines for her.
 
Thanks Barb, I've just phoned my vet, she said to carry on administering olive oil and massaging her tummy, not sure how to do that, any help you can offer would be great. If no better then to bring her in the morning. Problem now is that she doesn't want to eat and her dose is due in 45 minutes so I don't know what to do about that. she's still coming down, now at 135.
 
No R for sure.
I'm thinking skip - no reliable appetite, no insulin. Once she is eating again R can help with any fallout while depot refills. That's my thought. However I will defer to acro moms for guidance on tonight's dose.
 
She's just passed a walnut sized hard poo, plus a bit of liquid, but did it on the dog's bed. Hope that was all that was blocking her, need advice whether to dose or not. Sorry, have been in a bit of a panic.
 
Hi Sandy, we posted at the same time. That's what I was thinking but will wait for confirmation from perhaps Wendy, Julie, Marje or Suzanne. I will test her again in 15 mins when her shot is due but will hold off.
 
Crystal isn't a ketone-prone kitty. If you were to skip a shot, it's really no different than if you gave a fur shot -- or at least that's one way to think about it. Given that Crystal is a high dose cat, the safest course of action is to skip.

Suki -- this may seem like a totally off the wall question but what exactly are you feeding Crystal?
 
Hi Sienne, thanks for looking in. Not at all, it may have some bearing on events. I'm giving her a raw minced chicken mix that I prepare myself with added powdered supplements that I buy from Tatzenladen in Germany. I've been feeding her this for about 6 months now and she loves it. I ususally mix in squash but I've run out at the moment. I also make it very soupy with added water. Thanks for putting it in context of a furshot, I don't feel so bad now. What do you think will happen if she doesn't want to eat, she's at 112 just 15 minutes ago, which would have been her +1.
 
I'm at work at the moment, but I agree with the others about skipping her shot tonight. If she's not reliably eating it's better to err on the safe side and skip. I hope she feels better soon.

One advantage, Suki, of a large dose is that sometimes you can skip a shot and the numbers won't even show it. She still has insulin action from her previous shots that might keep her numbers lower in tonight. You still need to monitor, but I think I would still skip the shot.

Hope she poops soon.
 
Suki, I sent Zener's Tummy Massage video in your PM box, because I couldn't send just the link. The whole UTube video posted. Couldn't put it out here.
Liz gave permission.
 
Skipping was a good idea this time.:bighug:She's probably feeling a bit yucky cause she hasn't been this low for ages.

When is the last time time you offered Crystal some food? Just wondering if she's be interested in it now, or if the other kitties get something different she might be tempted to eat. I wouldn't worry if it's something higher carb at this point.

Interesting cycle today. It could be that Crystal likes to really nadir late on Levemir. I've seen a nadir as late as +15 with Neko. Good idea to keep up the hourly tests.

I can think of a couple of reasons for not wanting to eat and constipation. She's in lower numbers than she's been for a while, so possibly grooming more and have a hairball in there. Second, megacolon is common in acrocats. That's something your vet should explore. If she does have megacolon, that may mean changes to diet. With raw, you do have to be careful on the amount of bone. It can be constipating, especially if too much. Are you grinding your own meat and bone? Make sure it's ground really finely. You can get bone powder for adding to raw diets that's easier on them.

Sending poo vines your way.
 
Thanks for that Barb, I'll go give it a try if she will let me. a special thank you to Liz as well.

Wendy, thanks for replying, I really appreciate it. She last ate about +6 this morning, so about midday. I have tried offering her some Felix with gravy which the others get but she wasn't interested. The food I make is pure muscle meat (chicken tighes) no skin or bones whatsoever so it can't be something like bone irritating her intestine. Is there any chance she will go too low tonight? whats the danger number? I've never had to address this issue so I'm completely in unchartered territory. Do you think it would be okay to give her the normal dose tomorrow morning? sorry for so many questions, it started off such a lovely day and now I feel in panic mode!
 
Have you tried warming up the food? Here are a bunch of suggestions on how to stimulate kitty's appetite.

I'd keep testing hourly. The point where we start to action is 50 (2.8). Just keep testing and we'll find out if this is a really late nadir. It's something I've wondered about Crystal on Levemir.

How's her hydration? Do you know how to test if she's dehydrated? Extra liquids can help things pass.
 
I'm just going to try again with some food, I'll warm it a little and see if that works. Re hydration, do you just pull up the fur along her back and see if it springs back? I'll go try that too and let you know how I get on.
 
You can also put a finger on her gums and see if they are wet and slick, or dry and tacky.

Is she eating treats at all? Have you ever had to assist feed her with a syringe? Not trying to alarm you, but want to make sure you have all the supplies you need, just in case, before the stores close.
 
Just checking back in. Punkin had some mega colon issues. His stool was child-sized but after the srt it reduced.

Do you think the entire problem you're seeing today is constipation? If not, any ideas? Could she have eaten a sick mouse?

Sending crystal feel better vines.
 
Wendy & Julie, I can't type fast enough! Everything is shut now anyway, its 21.00 here. Okay, she managed to eat about 2 teaspoons of felix with gravy, I tried it first without warming and she was okay with it. Looking a little more interested. I also have some treats which I could use. Never had to assist feeding, she's has always been on the lookout for food since dx. Has been out most of the day but just lying in the sun so don't think she was hunting. Only the one time with white foamy liquid, nothing since and I've kept her in since then so I know thats definately the case. Her skin on her back is pretty tight anyway but doesn't feel very elastic so she probably is a bit dehydrated. I'll mix the next little feed with some extra water and a bit more olive oil. Just going to do a test and then I'll post the numbers. Yes Julie, I do think it's just constipation as it appears the same as last time, it's just that it's coincided with her very low (for her) numbers that's made me a bit nervous. thanks for holding my hand through this guys.
 
You don't want her lower than 50 mg/dL 92.7 mmol/L on a human meter.
If she gets below 100, I might consider intervening with a few drops of Karo or other syrup, since she isn't eating and Karo has nominal volume.
 
Hi BJ, thanks for looking in also and for confirming the numbers for intervention, I hope she wont go that low but who knows. (she has just eaten a couple of teaspoons of felix with gravy) I have honey ready if needed. Just done a +3 test and she's 103, so I hope she is flattening out now. I'll continue to test hourly and update her SS.
 
Whew!! So happy both that she ate a bit and that her numbers are slowing down. I wouldn't give her karo/syrup, unless she were to go a lot lower.

Dose tomorrow - she will probably be high due to both a bounce from spending this much time in normal numbers, plus the skip. As long as she is eating at least half of her food, you'll probably be OK with giving her regular dose. If you are worried at all, get a +11.5 (or +23.5) test and post here. I'll try to get back on and watch for you. If she's still not eating, maybe half dose, depending on her numbers. As Sandy mentioned above, this is where R can sometimes be handy. I'd still go to the vet, especially if she's dehydrated.

Shopping list for another time: backup BG meter (always good in case of an incident), syringes for assist feeding, something with more volume in the syringe (you might find something in the baby section). I don't know if you can get pure meat babyfood in France. The only ones we can get in Canada are "in gravy" which means added carbs so I get some on a cross border shopping trip. They are pureed meat and a lot of cats find them very tasty. They are often good for tempting a cat that doesn't want to eat. If nothing else, just whirring a bit of meat in a blender with water to make it a pasty texture.

Last fall one time Neko went off her food for a few days - no reason for it found, but it was after a food vomit. I keep a variety of small tins of canned food around that will sometime tempt her if goes off her raw food.
 
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She's just passed another hard round poo and had another little bit of food so I think she's recovering, thank goodness. I'll check out the shopping list too and get some supplies in. I'll carrying on monitoring and hope she's okay for the morning dose. thanks again for all your invaluable support and advice.
 
Suki, I am SO sorry. I am just now checking in. I am not getting any emails when I'm tagged anymore.

FWIW, I agree with everyone else here. I'm glad there were people here to give you advice.

I do agree with Wendy though. I think Crystal nadirs late. I've thought that for awhile though. I think I mentioned it once previously. Cobb would nadir at +11, +12 sometimes. It isn't uncommon on Lev.

However, I think those normal numbers look great! I think we see that it takes Crystal at least 4 cycles to see some action on a new dose. It's been that way for the previous 2 dosecreases.
 
Hi Suzanne, don't worry it's just that I thought I saw you name earlier and thought I might catch you. The cavalry came to my rescue and got us sorted. Looks like she definitely has a late nadir but I was just panicking in case she went too low, talk about one extreme to the other. I'm not used to low numbers but it looks like this dose is having its effect. Do you think it's a good idea to hold this dose now for a few more days? I'm thinking we will be out Saturday evening about 1 hour after her PM shot for at least 5 hours and also I have my hospital day starting about 1 hour again after her AM shot on Monday morning When I will be gone for approx 11/12 hours. What do you think, I don't think it's a good idea to increase if I'm not around to monitor.
 
I'd hold the dose until after your day in the hospital. It'll take her a few days to rebuild the depot and you don't want to increase just before a day you can't monitor.

Maybe a glass of fine French wine to relax you? You deserve it tonight.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I'd hold the dose until after your day in the hospital. It'll take her a few days to rebuild the depot and you don't want to increase just before a day you can't monitor.

Maybe a glass of fine French wine to relax you? You deserve it tonight.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with Wendy on not increasing before you go to the hospital. I meant to write that above, but lost my train of thought as I was counting how many cycles you would have between now and then. I have awful pregnancy brain. I told my boss that he needed to make sure I write down important information from here on out. :confused:

Mmmm...wine, fine French wine...that does sound good. My parents took my sister and I to France when we were in college (old enough to drink in France, but not the U.S. -- well, I wasn't). It was when you could still bring liquids on planes. We brought back 4 or 5 bottles of wine. However much we could legally bring in. We are running to make our plane in Philadelphia and my sister, who has the wine because she was old enough, trips on her shoes and goes sprawling over the floor. She had no concern about herself. All I hear her yell as she's faceplanting on the floor is "the wine! Oh my gosh, the wine!" Thankfully it was okay. :rolleyes:
 
Sounds an excellent idea. Us Brits are famous for a cup of tea to ease all troubles but as I'm now in France I think a glass of wine is more appropriate. Thanks for confirming holding the dose, I can increase either Monday night or Tuesday morning, depending on what we see in the meantime. No doubt tomorrow we will see some interesting figures.
 
At least your sister had her priorities right Suzanne and saved the wine. I don't suppose you can have too much while you are pregnant, how are you feeling anyway?hopefully no sickness to deal with.
 
No wine, no coffee, no sushi, no deli meat:arghh::arghh::arghh:

Pretty bad morning sickness, but I just remind myself there's an end to it and I will have a beautiful baby for my inconvenience. :) I was pretty sick with Matty too. It should subside in a few weeks. Fingers crossed!
 
That's a bit drastic but worth it in the long run. Hope you soon get over the morning sickness, not a good way to start the day and it must leave you pretty drained. If dear CoBb were still around no doubt he would think you were throwing up a hairball!
 
pretty funny wine story, suzanne! hehehe last time we went to France we might've brought home several bottles of wine in checked luggage . . . just surrounded it with lots of padding. yum.

If Crystal weren't feeling crummy, constipated and the little foamy vomit, I'd say this was a perfect day. Her blood sugar is FANTASTIC! These aren't low numbers - this is exactly what you want.

The thing about the dose is because you have increased in appropriate increments both in the # of cycles you've waited and in the volume of your increases, you can feel pretty confident that this dose is about right. So even though it's huge to a non-acro cat, this dose appears to be just right for Crystal. Blue numbers are fantastic. I would return to the 45u in the morning and hold that dose til after your hospital stay, unless you catch low numbers (under 50). I wouldn't carb her until you get to that point, unless you are having an anxiety attack and need to do it for you. Typically she doesn't dive and her blood sugar doesn't move too quickly, so you have time to work with her blood sugar if you need to.

Butter and Coconut oil are 2 other greases that can help a cat with constipation issues. On a regular basis, you probably want to be using the pumpkin or other fiber, but when you're in a spot where you need quicker action, those can help and most cats seem to like them.

I suspect you can relax on the testing now and get some rest! You've had quite a day!:bighug:
 
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