3/4Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367, +5 445, +10 535!!

[tortie58]

I've moved over from the General Health part.

Her +6 is 284. Probably her nadir. I'll do further test & report.

Helen

 

[Ann & Tess GA]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Hi, welcome to Lantus Land! I'm glad to see you here, there are a lot more eyes to give specific advice about Lantus here.

Do get a +8 test. If she is still going down, further tests will help get really valuable information, too.

Here's a link to your thread in Health.

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Hello again
Happy you found your way here to Lantus Land!

Good job on the PM cycle tests

How often and at what times do you give sub-qs?

 

[Melissa and Bailey]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Hi Helen, just wanted to say welcome to LL to you and Rosy!

 

[kim and simon]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Hi Helen and Rosy! A big LL welcome to y'all all the way from Texas! You're doing a great job. Hang in there. You're going to get good advice from the folks here.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Hi, welcome to Lantus Land! I'm glad to see you here, there are a lot more eyes to give specific advice about Lantus here.

Do get a +8 test. If she is still going down, further tests will help get really valuable information, too.

Here's a link to your thread in Health.

Thankyou Ann & Tess! This is 5:49 am in Hongkong.
I'll be getting a +8 test later.

Hello again
Happy you found your way here to Lantus Land!

Good job on the PM cycle tests

How often and at what times do you give sub-qs?

I tried to do a 100ml sub-q since last Sunday but only succeeded 4 times as you can see from my SS. I tried to put down things I think relevant to Rosy's bg on the last column on the sheet. The Sub-q is because of her constant high bg & a bit of dehydration on Sunday. She has gone downslope fast in the recent weeks. I suspect it's caused by the dry w/d recommended by my vet to cure her diarrhea which did not improve after 2 courses of antibiotics. In those 2 wks when she was having w/d, her creamy stool stopped. She became super hungry & thirsty, her rear legs lost all power & could not walk on her paws. This was last week.
Vet increased dosage after 2 blood test at clinic ( at 2 hr after food & a +7, wished I know more then!). He is not supportive at all on home testing.
I looked up info on the forum. Tried to remove all dry food & got her to 3 fixed meal a day (Unable to leave food for her during the night because of other 21 furry babies unless I've to cage her which I really don't want to do so)

I started on home testing & the SS since last Sunday. Rosy was all canned food for the last 4 days & I've found an improvement in both her bg && physical self. Her rear leg regained a bit of strength. Her constant craving on food & water improved. I am in the transition of changing my cats to all canned food but man, it is so difficult!


Helen

 

[mybuddybinks]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Welcome, Helen and Rosy!!

Lantus land is a magical place...
it was quite literally a life-saver for my little guy

May you and Rosy flourish here as well!

celi & binks

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +6 284

Rosys +8 at 185. I think the bg will fall further due to no food was given since last shot. Should I give her food now? So as to raise her bg for the shoot coming? Do I do another test at +10 ? She's a bit stressed with putting up with my poking. :sad:

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Oh please, anybody? Help!! Should I feed her now ?

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Helen:

I would definitely feed her now. You do not want to feed between +10 and +12 and I think she's dropping fast enough that you should give her some LC food and let her eat. It's best to feed more often up to the nadir than
to let her go from PS to PS without eating. She's been coming down pretty fast all day.

Please post a +10 for us. You're doing great!

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Helen:

I would definitely feed her now. You do not want to feed between +10 and +12 and I think she's dropping fast enough that you should give her some LC food and let her eat. It's best to feed more often up to the nadir than
to let her go from PS to PS without eating. She's been coming down pretty fast all day.

Please post a +10 for us. You're doing great!

Thankyou so much Marjorie and Gracie!! I've fed her canned food right away the time is +9 There is another 2.5 hr before the AM shot.
I'm so afraid my switching to canned food is hurting her. Every kitty friend & even my vet asked me to give her regular food & all she can eat. That was unlimited dry food.
I'm so afraid the switching over in her diet is causing harm to her.

I'll do a +10. Will post


Helen

 

[kim and simon]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Have you talked with any of the more experienced users about the dose of your next shot? Are you sticking with 3u? Just wondering. You might want to ask about 2 hours before your shot. You can change the last part of the title in your FIRST post to "dose help" to make it show up on the subject line in the main Lantus forum.
----

Breathe! You are doing great! This yoga cat is just to make you laugh a little!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Helen:

Unfortunately, many vets have not yet caught on to the fact that dry food is what often causing diabetes. You are NOT harming her by letting her have low carb canned food or a raw diet. It's the best thing for her. I would expect to see some downward trend of her numbers without the dry food. You're doing the best thing you can for her by getting her off those carbs in the dry food.

Yes....please post a +10 so we can see where she is. I'm sure you are exhausted...you are doing great.

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Did I read that correctly 21 other fur babies :shock: you must be one very busy lady!

Wait to see what Marje or another wise one says at +10 but dose may be too high, you were started way higher than we would normally start and now Rosy has changed to wet food which is likely to have reduced her insulin needs. She may also have earned a dose reduction on PM 03/01 cycle. Whatever dose you started on we would not have expected to see much action in the first few days because of the way lantus works - the shed must build up first. Looks like the shed had built up by 03/01.

I'm not sure why you say you think changing to wet diet may have hurt her? Definitely the best thing for her.

In regard to back legs issue - have you discussed nueropathy with the vet, if that is the problem she should be having Vit B12 supplement

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Have you talked with any of the more experienced users about the dose of your next shot? Are you sticking with 3u? Just wondering? You might want to ask about 2 hours before your shot. You can change the title in your FIRST post to make it show up on the subject line in the main Lantus forum.
----

Breathe! You are doing great! This yoga cat is just to make you laugh a little!

Oh kim and simon, your yoga cat is lovely! Thankyou!
I will take her test now. I don't know if I should stick with the 3u because I cannot reduce by 0.25 or 0.5u. I'm using the Lantus pen with the fixed dose of 1u increment. I'll be getting syringes but at the mean time, I've got the pen only.
Will edit the title. Tks!

Helen:

Unfortunately, many vets have not yet caught on to the fact that dry food is what often causing diabetes. You are NOT harming her by letting her have low carb canned food or a raw diet. It's the best thing for her. I would expect to see some downward trend of her numbers without the dry food. You're doing the best thing you can for her by getting her off those carbs in the dry food.

Yes....please post a +10 so we can see where she is. I'm sure you are exhausted...you are doing great.

Tks Marjorie and Gracie! Will do the +10 now & update.
Yes Im exhausted by the stress. I haven't had a good sleep for the wk. Really wish Rosy will be stable soon.




Helen

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Rosy's figure at +10 is 186, canned food was given 0.5hr ago.

Did I read that correctly 21 other fur babies :shock: you must be one very busy lady!

Wait to see what Marje or another wise one says at +10 but dose may be too high, you were started way higher than we would normally start and now Rosy has changed to wet food which is likely to have reduced her insulin needs. She may also have earned a dose reduction on PM 03/01 cycle. Whatever dose you started on we would not have expected to see much action in the first few days because of the way lantus works - the shed must build up first. Looks like the shed had built up by 03/01.

I'm not sure why you say you think changing to wet diet may have hurt her? Definitely the best thing for her.

In regard to back legs issue - have you discussed nueropathy with the vet, if that is the problem she should be having Vit B12 supplement

Yes Vyktors Mum, I've got 21 lovely furry babies, a multiple cat household. They are all once stray kitties, now my closest family. Taking care is not that difficult when they were young & healthy. Now most of them 10 yrs old, youngest 5 are 6 yrs old. Health issue is starting to come. Wish I can cope with it.
Rosy's leg issue, I've ordered the Methlyn B-12 which has yet to arrive. I bought a B-12 from pharmacy & feeding her at the mean time.
My switching her altogether from dry to pure canned food can be too drastic?

Helen

 

[kim and simon]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

I bet Marje or another person who can help will be back around to check on you soon. I think that switching to all wet food is the perfect thing for your kitty. You made the correct choice. Now let's see what to do about the dose! Just check in before you shoot anything, ok?

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185. Need Help!!

Rosy's figure at +10 is 186, canned food was given 0.5hr ago.
Now most of them 10 yrs old, youngest 5 are 6 yrs old. Health issue is starting to come. Wish I can cope with it.
Rosy's leg issue, I've ordered the Methlyn B-12 which has yet to arrive. I bought a B-12 from pharmacy & feeding her at the mean time.
My switching her altogether from dry to pure canned food can be too drastic?

Helen

Did you check with the vet that the human B12 from the pharmacy is okay to give to cats??????

Because you are monitoring her BG at home it is okay to change the food like that because you can see if she gets dangerously low and do something.

Is your ss correct in that she had a 86 at +11 of PMS on 03/01 and then a 254 an hour later at AMPS on 03/02??? It appears you gave food at the +11 but that seems huge for a LC canned food spike.

Don't forget to update your original subject line with her +10 so people can see straight away that the has been an update.

It is a shame you only have the pen to make dose changes by 1 unit for now.

Just to check - will you be able to monitor today after her shot? Do you have plenty of test strips and some higher carb wet food and/or syrup in case numbers get too low?

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

I bet Marje or another person who can help will be back around to check on you soon. I think that switching to all wet food is the perfect thing for your kitty. You made the correct choice. Now let's see what to do about the dose! Just check in before you shoot anything, ok?

Hi Kim and simon, after the episode the day before , I was scared to death worrying if she'd have a hypo! Definitely I'll not shoot until some good advice. Tks.

Rosy's figure at +10 is 186, canned food was given 0.5hr ago.
Now most of them 10 yrs old, youngest 5 are 6 yrs old. Health issue is starting to come. Wish I can cope with it.
Rosy's leg issue, I've ordered the Methlyn B-12 which has yet to arrive. I bought a B-12 from pharmacy & feeding her at the mean time.
My switching her altogether from dry to pure canned food can be too drastic?

Helen

Did you check with the vet that the human B12 from the pharmacy is okay to give to cats??????

Because you are monitoring her BG at home it is okay to change the food like that because you can see if she gets dangerously low and do something.

Is your ss correct in that she had a 86 at +11 of PMS on 03/01 and then a 254 an hour later at AMPS on 03/02??? It appears you gave food at the +11 but that seems huge for a LC canned food spike.

Don't forget to update your original subject line with her +10 so people can see straight away that the has been an update.

It is a shame you only have the pen to make dose changes by 1 unit for now.

Just to check - will you be able to monitor today after her shot? Do you have plenty of test strips and some higher carb wet food and/or syrup in case numbers get too low?

The human B-12 is confirmed by my vet. Obviously he's not aware this B12 is different from the Methlym B12 recommended here.
I can monitor Rosy after her shot today but I don't have the ketone test strips. I think the Supermarket Wiskas Im giving her is not a real low carb canned. I'm using it as she's used to this type & to quickly move away her dry food.


Helen

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Human B-12 is fine. If you are hoping to use a B-vitamin to address what may be peripheral neuropathy (the weakness in Rosy's back legs), methyl B-12 (methylcobalamin) is more specific for the problem. Methyl B-12 is one of the metabolites of B-12. You cannot overdose a B-vitamin. They are water soluble and any excess is excreted in the urine.

I want to echo what others have said about a canned food diet. Cats are obligate carnivores. In other words, they only need protein and other trace nutrients in their diet. They do not need grains, vegetables, fruit, etc. A diabetic cat needs to be on a low carbohydrate diet. Hill's W/D dry food is 37% carbohydrate. A low carb diet is considered under 10% carb and most of us feed less than 5% carb. In addition, W/D is not species appropriate. (These are the first several ingredients: Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken, Chicken Liver Flavor.) You can find premium, human grade cat foods that are less expensive and far better quality -- or at least you can in the U.S. I have no idea what may be available in Hong Kong.

As far as diet, I'd encourage you to read the website by Lisa Pierson, DVM. Is is a wealth of information on feline nutrition.

It is not surprising that you are seeing a drop in Rosy's BG numbers as you are changing her diet. However, this does mean that you need to be diligent about testing. It is important to get tests during both the AM and the PM cycles. That doesn't mean you have to stay up all night but it is important to get at least a test before you go to bed every night.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Please help! How much should i shoot? I can only go by 1u increment with the pen!
My shooting time is due now.


Helen

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Helen

It's ok to hold on for just a minute. We are discussing ...be right back.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Helen:

Given that the change in diet seems to be dropping Rosy's numbers, I think it will be safer if you lower her dose to 2.0u. (I'm part of that group that's discussing Rosy's dose.)

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Helen

We'd like you to reduce her dose by 1u. That is a bigger reduction than we normally do but we believe she might be on too much insulin and that this will be safer for her? So can you please shoot 2u and hold that dose until we think she needs to go up or down . Thank you!

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Helen

We'd like you to reduce her dose by 1u. That is a bigger reduction than we normally do but we believe she might be on too much insulin and that this will be safer for her? So can you please shoot 2u and hold that dose until we think she needs to go up or down . Thank you!

Helen:

Given that the change in diet seems to be dropping Rosy's numbers, I think it will be safer if you lower her dose to 2.0u. (I'm part of that group that's discussing Rosy's dose.)

Thankyou so much for the advice! I'll reduce to 2u BID. Do I have to do do further test at that interval like last night? Rosy is really stressed (maybe partly by me! )

Helen

 

[Libby and Lucy]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

welcome to Lantus Land!

I hope reducing will give you a chance to collect some good data without having to be in panic mode. The numbers you are seeing are good, but because of the food change and the fact that Rosy has seen some fairly low numbers on this dose, reducing seems like the safest thing for now. She will probably end up needing a dose somewhere between 2u and 3u, so I'm glad you have some syringes on order.

Regarding testing tonight, definitely get a test at +12 before you shoot. That number will tell you whether she is dropping or rising at shot time, and that will help us suggest when you should test again in this cycle. Even though you are reducing the dose, Lantus has cumulative action. That means that this next cycle will still have some influence of today's 3u shot, so it's possible that she could still drop.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

welcome to Lantus Land!

I hope reducing will give you a chance to collect some good data without having to be in panic mode. The numbers you are seeing are good, but because of the food change and the fact that Rosy has seen some fairly low numbers on this dose, reducing seems like the safest thing for now. She will probably end up needing a dose somewhere between 2u and 3u, so I'm glad you have some syringes on order.

Regarding testing tonight, definitely get a test at +12 before you shoot. That number will tell you whether she is dropping or rising at shot time, and that will help us suggest when you should test again in this cycle. Even though you are reducing the dose, Lantus has cumulative action. That means that this next cycle will still have some influence of today's 3u shot, so it's possible that she could still drop.

Hi Libby and Lucy,

I've shot her 2u just now & also gave her a small portion of canned. She seems so hungry, even after her food 2 hrs ago.
I'll do a +6 & +12 to see how's her figure. I am worried about ketone as I don't have those test strips in hand. Do I need to sub-q her during these days?

Helen

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Helen

It's a good idea to feed her small amounts over several hours before her nadir so she doesn't get too hungry and so it can help with the insulin.

Hopefully you will get your syringes and ketostix soon. The fluids are up to you. They won't hurt her except they can cause the BG to come down. Some cats, it does; some it does not. I gave Gracie fluids until
her insulin started to kick in and bring her numbers down and then I stopped. I think it's up to you on what you'd like to do. Once you get the ketostix, I think you would be ok to stop the fluids and test for
ketones daily. If you pick up even a trace, you could start again.

When you get a chance, could you please update your subject line to show you shot? You would just edit it to read "3/4 Rosy AMPS XXX"
with the XXX being whatever number you shot. We have a member in Australia and so she is also a day ahead. Good job last night and this morning. Hope you can get some rest.

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Hello again Helen

What was Rosys number at shot time (AMPS)?
I know you must be tired from being up all night - hang in there a little longer.

I'm glad you came to Lantus Land today. This is the place to be for guidance and support.
You have received wise recommendations.
Things will get better

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Hello again Helen

What was Rosys number at shot time (AMPS)?
I know you must be tired from being up all night - hang in there a little longer.

I'm glad you came to Lantus Land today. This is the place to be for guidance and support.
You have received wise recommendations.
Things will get better

Hi Sandy and Black Kitty,
I did not take her number at Amps. I took a number at +10, which she did not have food in the past hrs. I fed her & shot her 2 hrs later. Rosy's in hiding sleeping now since she's exhausted last night.
I'll take her numbers later on at +4, +7 & Pmps. Will update my SS.
I am unable to sleep though very very tired.


helen

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Hi Helen,

You must have missed Libbys message in her earlier post:

, definitely get a test at +12 before you shoot. That number will tell you whether she is dropping or rising at shot time, and that will help us suggest when you should test again in this cycle. Even though you are reducing the dose, Lantus has cumulative action. That means that this next cycle will still have some influence of today's 3u shot, so it's possible that she could still drop.

A kiitys BG can change a lot from +10 to PS time. It's really important to get your test just before you shoot.
Even though you shot less insulin this cycle, Rosys BG may still be affected by the previous shot.
Any chance you can get a test sooner than +4?

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Helen

It's a good idea to feed her small amounts over several hours before her nadir so she doesn't get too hungry and so it can help with the insulin.

Hopefully you will get your syringes and ketostix soon. The fluids are up to you. They won't hurt her except they can cause the BG to come down. Some cats, it does; some it does not. I gave Gracie fluids until
her insulin started to kick in and bring her numbers down and then I stopped. I think it's up to you on what you'd like to do. Once you get the ketostix, I think you would be ok to stop the fluids and test for
ketones daily. If you pick up even a trace, you could start again.

When you get a chance, could you please update your subject line to show you shot? You would just edit it to read "3/4 Rosy AMPS XXX"
with the XXX being whatever number you shot. We have a member in Australia and so she is also a day ahead. Good job last night and this morning. Hope you can get some rest.

Hi Marjorie and Gracie,
Thanks for your advice! people here are great! I really appreciate all the comfort & support from everybody.
Can you please explain how to feed them canned food over several hours? Do you mean a free feeding of canned food? With my family size, canned food will be wipe away by all the fatties.
i'll try to get a few syringes & test stripes today. ive never handled any syringe injection, will need to check up the web for know how.

helen

 

[tortie58]

Re: 3/3 Rosy +3 436, +6 284, +8 185, +10 189 How to shoot

Hi Helen,

You must have missed Libbys message in her earlier post:

, definitely get a test at +12 before you shoot. That number will tell you whether she is dropping or rising at shot time, and that will help us suggest when you should test again in this cycle. Even though you are reducing the dose, Lantus has cumulative action. That means that this next cycle will still have some influence of today's 3u shot, so it's possible that she could still drop.

A kiitys BG can change a lot from +10 to PS time. It's really important to get your test just before you shoot.
Even though you shot less insulin this cycle, Rosys BG may still be affected by the previous shot.
Any chance you can get a test sooner than +4?

yes, ive missed that message i can do a +2 now but got to drag her out from her sleep. will post after i got that number.
I'll need to start a new post, right? or just edit this one?

helen

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

Ive checked. Rosys +2 is 328 This is a surge from last nights +10 of 189. ithink its because i fed her at +10 last night & AMPS today. Can be the canned food?

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

Many of us feed minimeals .....so if you divide up the amount of food she normally gets into 4 or 5 smaller meals and then feed it at PS, +1, +2, +3 or some variation of those times, then it typically helps your kitty.

It depends on what her AMPS was....if it was already on the rise, this could be the beginning of a bounce or it could be a food spike depending on how much you fed her. Hard to tell without knowing her PS number.

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

It's not unusual for some kitties to have a 'food spike' in the first hour or so after the shot time meal, It's probably that Rosy is beginning a bounce, which is to be expected since her body is not accustomed to the lower blue numbers she had during the last cycle.
Rosys liver senses danger and tries to protect her by releasing counter-regulatory hormones, which increase her BG, into her bloodstream.
It would be a clearer picture if you knew the PS (+12). You would then know if she was on the way up or down.


Here is an example of a typical Lantus curve, for your reference:
+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number.
+3 - Lower than the PreShot number, onset has started.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle).
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (may dip around +10 or +11).
+12 - PreShot number.

In general you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how a cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become data ready an assist with making testing and dosing decisions.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

Many of us feed minimeals .....so if you divide up the amount of food she normally gets into 4 or 5 smaller meals and then feed it at PS, +1, +2, +3 or some variation of those times, then it typically helps your kitty.

It depends on what her AMPS was....if it was already on the rise, this could be the beginning of a bounce or it could be a food spike depending on how much you fed her. Hard to tell without knowing her PS number.

Oh I am sorry I screwed up ! Do I have to test her at the frequent interval? Both of us are extremely exhausted...

helen

 

[Vyktors Mum]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

You haven't screwed up you're doing a great job. There is so much to take in at the beginning it all gets rather confusing

Until you find out Rosy's responses to lantus more frequent testing is good BUT you don't have to do it every hour or anything and you don't want her to go off the whole testing idea. +1 and +2 tests are particularly good if you have shot a low number so you can perhaps get an idea of how the cycle is going to go but it doesn't work that way in every cat, for e.g. Vyktor's +2 after AMS on 02/19 gave me no notice of what was coming. Because it was a little higher than his PS I didn't worry about testing again until +6 which was nearly an oops. For Vyktor it is his +4 that tells me where he's going.

The most important tests to get every time are the PS tests and also a test around where you think her nadir is. It is also a good idea to do a curve (tests evey two hours between shots) once a week so you can see what's happening throughout the whole cycle. As you get to know how Rosy reacts to her lantus you will learn when it is most important to test her.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

hi helen - i'm glad you found Lantus Land! There is a ton to learn - and we all started out not knowing it, so don't feel badly about what you don't know. in everything here there is another chance to do it again! (that's a joke - but so true because we repeat everything every day!)

the person from Hong Kong that i was talking about on your post on the main health board is Christine and Ahmin. I'll find her profile and send her a message. hopefully she'll get it. i know it helps to have someone who knows what's available in your area.

and i'll agree with everyone else about the canned food. in nature, rosy would eat a mouse or a bird. all meat. no grains except what was in the tummies of the mouse or bird. i've seen both of my cats' health improve since we switched to all canned.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328

You haven't screwed up you're doing a great job. There is so much to take in at the beginning it all gets rather confusing

Until you find out Rosy's responses to lantus more frequent testing is good BUT you don't have to do it every hour or anything and you don't want her to go off the whole testing idea. +1 and +2 tests are particularly good if you have shot a low number so you can perhaps get an idea of how the cycle is going to go but it doesn't work that way in every cat, for e.g. Vyktor's +2 after AMS on 02/19 gave me no notice of what was coming. Because it was a little higher than his PS I didn't worry about testing again until +6 which was nearly an oops. For Vyktor it is his +4 that tells me where he's going.

The most important tests to get every time are the PS tests and also a test around where you think her nadir is. It is also a good idea to do a curve (tests evey two hours between shots) once a week so you can see what's happening throughout the whole cycle. As you get to know how Rosy reacts to her lantus you will learn when it is most important to test her.

Tks Vyktors Mum, really appreciate your encouragement. All this is overwhelming to everybody at Torties! The group had a crazy over night party last night seeing their mom rushing around warming up hot water bottle for Rosy's ear!
They all looked so tired today.

hi helen - i'm glad you found Lantus Land! There is a ton to learn - and we all started out not knowing it, so don't feel badly about what you don't know. in everything here there is another chance to do it again! (that's a joke - but so true because we repeat everything every day!)

the person from Hong Kong that i was talking about on your post on the main health board is Christine and Ahmin. I'll find her profile and send her a message. hopefully she'll get it. i know it helps to have someone who knows what's available in your area.

and i'll agree with everyone else about the canned food. in nature, rosy would eat a mouse or a bird. all meat. no grains except what was in the tummies of the mouse or bird. i've seen both of my cats' health improve since we switched to all canned.

Hi julie & punkin",

Really feel thankful for everybody here putting up with a freaked out newbie. Rosy's a great girl to go through all this & put up with my clumsiness. If its not Rosy, I don't think I can go so far into this. She gave me the signal that she wanted to live. She got her childhood sweetheart Tiger here. They stayed by her side the whole night. I am really moved by their feeling towards one another.

I've did a+6 which is 250. She moved from purple to the yellow zone.



Helen

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367

Rosy moved back from yellow to purple zone. PMPS 367. Gave her steamed chicken for dinner & 2u.
Will get up at +5 to give her some food & do a test. Will update.
Hope I can get some sleep tonight.

 

[Sandy and Black Kitty]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367


good evening Helen

you had quite a day yesterday - I hope things will be less crazy with the lower dose.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367

good evening Helen

you had quite a day yesterday - I hope things will be less crazy with the lower dose.

Good evening or good morning! Thanks to the net, we are so far away & yet so close! Today is March 4, according to the old Chinese calendar , today is a special day where all living creatures in hibernation through the winter will awake today & start their new year. I hope this will bring a new & hopeful beginning to all our furry friends & my friends here!

I plan to go to bed now with the alarm at 3am to test Rosy & give her a bit of food.

Night night!

Helen

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367

i didn't know that about march 4th - what a lovely day!

you're doing just great, helen. it takes a while to learn all of this - we understand because we've all been in your shoes. don't worry about trying to get it all at once. we say "it's a marathon, not a sprint!"

i sent a message to Christine and hope she will get it. some people get notifications of pm's in their emails, some don't. i hope hers is set to get them. if not, while none of the rest of us is in Hong Kong, we're still sitting in your computer and can almost reach out and touch you! we're with you in spirit!

sleep well. see you in the morning!

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367

i didn't know that about march 4th - what a lovely day!

you're doing just great, helen. it takes a while to learn all of this - we understand because we've all been in your shoes. don't worry about trying to get it all at once. we say "it's a marathon, not a sprint!"

i sent a message to Christine and hope she will get it. some people get notifications of pm's in their emails, some don't. i hope hers is set to get them. if not, while none of the rest of us is in Hong Kong, we're still sitting in your computer and can almost reach out and touch you! we're with you in spirit!

sleep well. see you in the morning!

Good morning julie & punkin! Is it night or is it day? I'm confused already. Waking up in the middle or the night? Or early morning of the day?
This is PM +5. Rosy has moved to the red zone again. Reading is 445. I gave her some canned food.


Helen

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367, +5 445

for me it's time for lunch!

let's stay on this thread until you take a morning preshot number, then would you start a new "condo" (what we call the threads each cat has) for the day? it helps us find important info to be able to help you if they don't get too terribly long.

i want to summarize what i think is going on now - would you correct me if i'm wrong?

++you're using a Lantus pen with the pen needles to shoot, but you are going to get syringes.

++you've changed to all canned food, Whiskas, but you're not sure of the carb content of what Rosy's eating. it might not be low carb.

++you've got MANY (21) other kitters to help you in the house! ;-) so Rosy needs to eat on a schedule.

++current dose is 2units

++rosy has some neuropathy in her back legs and you've just started giving her B-12

++you have a spreadsheet attached in your signature line under "rosy's profile"

would you let me know if that's all correct or if i should correct something?

so - just to help you move forward, here's a summary if what i think people are telling you so far:

always get a test before each shot. if it's below 200, or you have some concerns, post immediately, edit your subject line to ask for help and add a "reply" to your post to bump it to the top so people can see you need help. don't feed while you're waiting for someone to reply - unless she's under 50, then give her some food while you wait for an answer.

stick with the canned food for the moment but look for some low-carb varieties in HK.

hold the dose at 2units for now - we'll help you decide when it needs to change. lantus likes to have the same dose, 12 hours apart to have kitties do their best.

continue to test about every 3 hours during the day (preshot, +3, +6, +9 and preshot) and at least before bed at night for the first several days.

if you want to get a +2 it's helpful to tell us where Rosy is aimed - if it's about the same # as preshot, she'll probably have a cycle like this morning's. not too drastic or scary. if it's significantly lower than the preshot number, you might need extra tests because that usually means they are dropping and need extra watching. if it's higher than the preshot, then often that means the cat will have a higher numbers cycle. when you test it's helpful to edit your subject line and add the most recent numbers. that lets us keep an eye on her very easily!

when you have a few minutes, would you please read the yellow starred stickies (posts) at the top of the Lantus Support Group forum? there are about 6 of them, i think. you don't need to memorize it all, just look now for anything that is especially relevant to you right now. for example, in the "New to the Group" sticky, there is a description of the syringes you will need (U-100, .5u markings, 3/10cc) to help you buy the right ones.

the one thing to note that will be different for you: on the sticky that's about taking care of your Lantus/Levemir, it says to refrigerate the pen. In your case, because you are using the pen needles, the pen should be left unrefrigerated. The refrigerator will change the dose that is dispensed through the pen needles. Because the rest of us are using syringes instead of pen needles, we refrigerate the lantus to last as long as possible. You should leave yours unrefrigerated. Has it been in the refrigerator so far?

ask questions on anything that seems confusing!

you're already seeing a curve appear in her cycle today. great job getting the spreadsheet going! you're doing just great!!!

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367, +5 445

for me it's time for lunch!

let's stay on this thread until you take a morning preshot number, then would you start a new "condo" (what we call the threads each cat has) for the day? it helps us find important info to be able to help you if they don't get too terribly long.

i want to summarize what i think is going on now - would you correct me if i'm wrong?

++you're using a Lantus pen with the pen needles to shoot, but you are going to get syringes.

++you've changed to all canned food, Whiskas, but you're not sure of the carb content of what Rosy's eating. it might not be low carb.

++you've got MANY (21) other kitters to help you in the house! ;-) so Rosy needs to eat on a schedule.

++current dose is 2units

++rosy has some neuropathy in her back legs and you've just started giving her B-12

++you have a spreadsheet attached in your signature line under "rosy's profile"

would you let me know if that's all correct or if i should correct something?

so - just to help you move forward, here's a summary if what i think people are telling you so far:

always get a test before each shot. if it's below 200, or you have some concerns, post immediately, edit your subject line to ask for help and add a "reply" to your post to bump it to the top so people can see you need help. don't feed while you're waiting for someone to reply - unless she's under 50, then give her some food while you wait for an answer.

stick with the canned food for the moment but look for some low-carb varieties in HK.

hold the dose at 2units for now - we'll help you decide when it needs to change. lantus likes to have the same dose, 12 hours apart to have kitties do their best.

continue to test about every 3 hours during the day (preshot, +3, +6, +9 and preshot) and at least before bed at night for the first several days.

if you want to get a +2 it's helpful to tell us where Rosy is aimed - if it's about the same # as preshot, she'll probably have a cycle like this morning's. not too drastic or scary. if it's significantly lower than the preshot number, you might need extra tests because that usually means they are dropping and need extra watching. if it's higher than the preshot, then often that means the cat will have a higher numbers cycle. when you test it's helpful to edit your subject line and add the most recent numbers. that lets us keep an eye on her very easily!

when you have a few minutes, would you please read the yellow starred stickies (posts) at the top of the Lantus Support Group forum? there are about 6 of them, i think. you don't need to memorize it all, just look now for anything that is especially relevant to you right now. for example, in the "New to the Group" sticky, there is a description of the syringes you will need (U-100, .5u markings, 3/10cc) to help you buy the right ones.

the one thing to note that will be different for you: on the sticky that's about taking care of your Lantus/Levemir, it says to refrigerate the pen. In your case, because you are using the pen needles, the pen should be left unrefrigerated. The refrigerator will change the dose that is dispensed through the pen needles. Because the rest of us are using syringes instead of pen needles, we refrigerate the lantus to last as long as possible. You should leave yours unrefrigerated. Has it been in the refrigerator so far?

ask questions on anything that seems confusing!

you're already seeing a curve appear in her cycle today. great job getting the spreadsheet going! you're doing just great!!!

Hi Julie, yes what you've summerised described exactly whats going on with Rosy. Further,

++The B12 I've got is not the MethlynB12, just the B12 for human use. I fed her anyway while waiting for the Methlyn to arrive
++I gave her occasional Sub-q fluid of 100ml when she didn't fight against it. This is indicated in the last column of my SS
Im giving the sub-q because I'm afraid she'll have ketone which she doesn't at this moment.
++other than the Wiskas, I fed her steamed chicken as her meal before the PM shot. I gave her an additional meal at PM +5
So she's having 4 meal a day. I've tried to mix in low carb canned with her usual Wiskas fish since she refused duck or anything not fish. All of them ared fed fish flavor their whole life. The transition must go slow as the stress is there as I took away the free feeding on dry food for everybody
++further to make the testing difficult is I don't have an extra room where I can keep Rosy less distracted from the rest. Rosy is a very calm & good natured kitty. Just her mummy's too clumsy.

My box of Lantus pen is stored at the bottom part of my fridge. That's what the vet told me to do. I've 4 pen all inside fridge, that's what the pharmacy here do also. If I take it out, I'm afraid it will get spoiled because sometimes it canbe pretty hot & humid in HK I've using the same pen for around 28 days after opening, then throw away to start on new.
Do I have to take it out?


Helen

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367, +5 445

no, i think in that case, don't take it out. when you change to using syringes, we might have to look at the dose because i think it won't be exactly the same as 2 units using the pen needles. but that's ok. we'll figure it out then. for now, keep doing what you have been doing.

so rosy has had ketones in the past? did she have DKA - diabetic ketoacidosis? or only ketones?

one thing you can do instead of the sub-q fluids is to add water to rosy's food. i make punkin's soupy. that gets a little more fluid into them.

 

[tortie58]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367, +5 445

no, i think in that case, don't take it out. when you change to using syringes, we might have to look at the dose because i think it won't be exactly the same as 2 units using the pen needles. but that's ok. we'll figure it out then. for now, keep doing what you have been doing.

so rosy has had ketones in the past? did she have DKA - diabetic ketoacidosis? or only ketones?

one thing you can do instead of the sub-q fluids is to add water to rosy's food. i make punkin's soupy. that gets a little more fluid into them.

I was told by somebody here that the 2u of Lantus pen is the exact 2u on the syringe. But I cannot be sure of it. I'll check too.
Rosy did not have ketone in the past. She has been very stable & healthy. She lost most of her teeth because of gingivitis several years ago. Those teeth were extracted by the vet. She was confirmed diabetic during Christmas time when I found her loosing weight & took her to the vet.
So she started on Lantus 1u SID during Christmas & gradually increased.
Yes, I did add loads of water to her canned meal. She loved the soupy.

Helen

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Re: 4/3 Rosy +2 328, +6 250! PMPS 367, +5 445

you're right - measuring 2 units in the pen is the same as 2 units of insulin. what i understand is that there is a mechanism within the pen itself that changes with temperature. the "official" recommendation on the Lantus website is for the pen to remain unrefrigerated. The vials (bottles) of lantus are to be refrigerated. the reason they recommended the pen NOT be refrigerated was because the cold changed the mechanism, changing how much insulin is dispensed. now if you are always doing that, then you are always giving the same dose. it doesn't matter exactly what that dose is - what matters is that it is consistent.

when you have the syringes, we'll figure out what to do. probably nothing and just see if it makes a difference in rosy's numbers. for now, keep refrigerating it. cats do really well on consistent dosing, so just stay with it.

ok, no ketones, that's good. having a history of ketones changes how aggressive we are with dosing.

how soon do you think you'll be able to get syringes?