3/4 Sid update- need help with feeding

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Re: 3/4 Sid update- switch to levemir - maybe a bad idea?

I edited my post, most likely after you read it, sorry! I'm thinking I would wait until at least R+2 to give the PZ, that makes the PZ onset at least an hour after the R nadir. So I would say give the PZ at 6:45 ET. That should put you pretty close to your old schedule too.

Did you see what I added about the dose and posting on PZI to get more feedback?
 
Re: 3/4 Sid update- switch to levemir - maybe a bad idea?

@ Julie Thank you for bolding Laurie's advice. I must have missed where she said +2 after the R nadir. That is closer to our regular schedule too.

@Laurie I will post on PZI and I will bite the bullet and give him 1.6. It makes me nervous but his numbers have just been too high lately. I may have to stay home from work tomorrow at least 1/2 the day too.
 
Re: 3/4 Sid update- switch to levemir - maybe a bad idea?

You may have to feed him HC, but it's better to do that and get the ketones down than to risk him having another DKA episode. Ketones mean more insulin is needed...you know that. I would be aggressive with the dose (1.6u) and feed HC all cycle long if necessary...you HAVE to monitor closely, no other option if you are going to increase.
 
Re: 3/4 Sid update- switch to levemir - maybe a bad idea?

Laurie - I gave him 1.6. I fed him a small meal - I dont want him to get too full - and I gave him a couple HC treats that he loves but hasn't been able to have since dx. I also gave him 60 ml of SQ fluids - an increase from 40 ml. I will be watching him closely.
 
Re: 3/4 Sid update- switch to levemir - maybe a bad idea?

Sid, come down, nice and easy, tonight.
 
Re: 3/4 Sid update- Need help with feeding him

How much and how often should I be feeding him?
493 (4:45) I gave him about 1/3 can (maybe a little more) along with the .25 R
333 (5:45) I gave him a small bit - maybe tbs of turkey and giblets (authority)
282 (645) I gave 1/8 can and 3 treats - gave 1.6U prozinc *edited to add the prozinc dose!
301 (7:25)
263 (8:00) gave 2 treats
8:30 gave teaspoon of turkey and giblets
186 (8:45) gave 2 more treats

I'm trying not to let him get full but I'm trying to balance his dropping along with keeping the level stead. We have a long night ahead.
 
Re: 3/4 Sid update- switch to levemir - maybe a bad idea?

Do you have HC food with gravy? Give him the gravy, a tsp or two, and test again in 20-30 minutes. You want to slow him down.
 
He was at 139.

I gave him a teaspoon of some fancy feast elegant medleys with 1ml of karo on top - I believe this is HC - right? The turkey and giblets I've been giving are in gravy so I believe it should be HC but I haven't seen it on any list. I also have the fancy feast grilled variety but that isn't his favorite.

If he is still dropping in 20 minutes, should I give him 1ml of karo directly in his mouth?
 
I have to look up the medleys...I don't use them, so I don't know. I'm glad you added the karo, that should help. Let's see where he is in 20 minutes, I'll look for the carb count on the medleys.
 
I can't find any firm info on the medleys, but they may be around 10%. I would use the gravy food, that's probably higher carb, and add the karo to boost it.

If you are worried, you can always use karo on his gums...be careful about squirting it directly into his mouth, they can choke on it. You probably know this, but I would put it in his cheek pouch, not directly in his mouth.
 
If you are worried about Sid getting full, I would follow Laurie's suggestion and just give a teaspoon of gravy. You can always give solids or LC + gravy once Sid's numbers stabilize.
 
He was 101 at 10:00 pm. I gave him 2 tsps of dry (blue buffalo wilderness chicken) - and another treat.

He is loving this - all the stuff he can never have - especially his favorite whisker likins. He LOVES these.

I'm thinking I should wait 15 minutes and test him again. if he is even lower - give some karo in his mouth with a syringe.
He has not been visiting the water dish or the litter box. This morning he was literally at the water dish every 10 minutes. I just hope he doesn't go too low and we end up in ER again. We haven't been there in over a month. I'd rather deal with hypo than ketones though - that is for sure.
 
I would use the gravy, add the karo if you need to...it works faster than solid food will. The dry food will boost him up, but it may take a while. The idea is to keep him from going too low....that's why I suggested intervening early so you can slow him down before he gets down there. You're doing well.....you slowed him down, you just need to keep on top of it. I'm here for as long as you need me.
 
He only ate a few pieces of the dry kibble went and laid down and then was back in the kitchen for more so I gave him more gravy with 1ml of karo on top. I should have been clearer that the ff medley has a sauce and that is what I gave him a tsp of. Usually with the karo I mix it in the syringe with warm water and then very carefully syringe it in the side of his mouth. However, I did not do that tonight - just gave him the karo in the gravy.

He was at 80 at 10:25 and 101 at 10:05. He loves to drop like this and then later have a great big bounce.
 
The medleys are only around 10%, most of them. A few are 13-15%. They were on J & B's list...I didn't look there because I thought they were too new. ohmygod_smile He's still trying to drop, but slower at least. Easy does it, Sid!

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

I know he loves to bounce! I was expecting a bounce from the R, of course he didn't do it this time....yet!
 
I have copies of all of those lists and have looked at them numerous times and this entire time I thought the medley chicken florentine was pretty high carb. That might be because I was trying to keep Sid to zero carbs for the longest time and that's probably why I thought 10-15% was high. (I stopped following that plan when sid lost so much weight and I was happy for him to eat anything. the authority chicken is not 0 carb) - edited to add this disclaimer.

Sid has been licking the gravy of the grilled FF though. He does not like anything chunky (except treats or dry food) but luckily he likes gravy.

I gave him another teaspoon of it without any karo just now - he was at 85. I know he can still drop so I'm planning to stay up with him obviously.

I appreciate you being there for me and Sid, Laurie. It makes this more tolerable but I don't expect you to. Usually it's just me panicking while he skyrockets down though that really only happened on the lantus (so far). He has not yet had a hypo episode on prozinc with me though he did at the hospital because they didn't feed him through the cycle. Let's hope tonight is not a first. I hope we are on an upswing now but not too far up.
 
He's at 112 now so I expect he'll be at 400 within an hour :sad:
Let's hope not, but I won't be surprised. Next time I may not give him any karo until he gets a bit lower.
I'm just happy his bgs were lower than usual from about 6:45 until now- that's almost 5 hours. I will stay up and watch him but I expect we are out of the woods now. I just hope he doesn't go Hi and stay there until his next dose.

I think the next dose should be 1.4 - do you agree?
 
Ten percent is still considered LC, and I always considered 15% MC....but a lot of people use 15% as HC. I always used 24% for HC...but I think I'm the exception! :lol:

You are doing a great job with Sid...I hope he's leveling out now. I'm happy to stay up with you Lydia, I suggested you shoot the 1.6u, so I feel that I need to keep an eye on how you are doing...it's the "code" we operate by! Besides, I think it helps to have company, even when you know what to do. :smile: I'm glad to see he surfed this time instead of dropping...of course, that could be the karo, so I agree that you want to stay on top of things. I don't blame you for getting nervous when he skyrockets down, he can be a dramatic diver...and then of course he zooms back up fast too!
 
Sorry I was typing when you posted, Lydia.

I agree that you should reduce the dose. If you are comfortable with 1.4u, that's fine....but I would see what his numbers look like before you shoot. Also, you'll have to see what happens with the ketones, remember that's why you increased, not for the numbers. IMHO, his numbers were not too bad on 1.2u (other than the bounces), and he didn't get a chance to settle into the 1.3u dose....but the ketones were there, so 1.3u is probably not enough.

I think you gave the karo appropriately, personally. If he continued to dive, he could have ended up too low...it's better to be a little higher than too low and 80 is a lovely nadir! Also, remember the speed of the drop can cause a bounce, not always going too low, or lower than he is used to. The treats/dry food could be part of this rise...they kick in later and hang around longer.
 
He's at 167 now (11:45 pm) that's only a 50 pt rise in 45 minutes - pretty good for Sid.

Every time I walk into the kitchen,he is following me. I gave him a teaspoon of friskies pate to nibble on.

I always thought it was preferable to give food over karo syrup. So I probably should not give him the treats or dry food next time? He ate only a few pieces of kibble - maybe 10 and the pieces are really small but probably too much. I know he ate too many treats but I thought they were preferable to karo and he hates the karo but loves those treats and it's a shame they are so bad for him and he can't have them anymore. He does not like the freeze dried treats at all and I've tried every flavor on him.

I will wait to see what he is at but I expect he will be HI. I do plan to give him 1.4.
 
Thank you Barb. I looked at Daphne's photos and she is beautiful. I also have a Daphne but mine is a civvie tabby with white paws and slightly crossed eyes. Hugs and white light and vines are appreciated as much as advice. thank you!
 
ECID.....some people use treats all of the time for low numbers. It's a matter of what works best for your cat. Some people use LC and add karo to it to make MC or HC. I find that in most cases, gravy works more quickly than solid food...once you get numbers up or the drop slowed, then you can use solid food to help them surf or allow them to continue to drop at a reasonable pace. I'm not big on karo, the reason I suggested it tonight was that Sid was dropping fast and it was very early in the cycle, I knew he was working on a relatively large dose increase and there was a risk that he could gather too much momentum without using the karo. It was based on the circumstances.

I generally don't suggest dry food, because it doesn't work quickly enough when you need quick action, and then it's still working when you don't want it to...ie: when they are already rising and they don't need the extra help! It's just not the best choice for manipulating cycles....wet food/gravy/karo is better IMHO.

I would see what happens in the morning, you might want to see if you can stick around for the morning. Just use your judgement and be cautious....It would not be a bad idea to leave HC in the feeder for him if you have any suspicions that he might drop low.
 
well done tonight, ladies! this was definitely better for sid than this morning. :YMHUG:

i think working the prozinc a little more was a smart move.
 
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