3/31 - LILY, Advice for how to prevent bouncing in AM?

Calicos are Best (GA)

Calicos are Best (GA)

Member Since 2019
Good Morning everyone,

I was wondering if anyone could please help with my Lily? I am looking for some advice on Bouncing numbers in the mornings. I have been noticing that Lily has been bouncing at her AMPS numbers. Usually the night before we go to bed, I always check her blood glucose. I have tried different snack portions to prevent her getting low in the night. I am thinking she must be getting very low when we are sleeping. Should I be giving her larger portions of snacks before bed?

Here are some of the days I was concerned about.

3/22 - 2:02 AM -271 @ +7
(before bed), Snack = 1 tsp gravy lovers
3/22 - AMPS - 448 (7:10 AM)

3/24 - 11:12 PM -206 @ +4
(before bed), Snack = 1/4 cn Kitten FF, 2 tsp gravy lovers
3/25 - AMPS - 519 (7:29 AM)

3/27 - 1:20 AM - 84 @ +6
(before bed), Snack = 1/4 cn Kitten FF, 1 tsp gravy lovers
3/27 - AMPS - 498 (7:52 AM)

3/29 - 11:12 PM -222 @ +5
(before bed), Snack = 1/2 cn Kitten FF
3/29 - AMPS - 441 (7:27 AM)

3/31 - 12:43 AM -172 @ + 5
(before bed), Snack = no snack
3/31 - AMPS - 451 (7:26 AM)

* As you can see I have tried various snacks of...
  • 1 tsp gravy lovers,
  • 1/4 cn KFF w/ 2 tsp gravy lovers,
  • 1/4 cn KFF w/ 1 tsp gravy lovers,
  • 1/2 cn KFF,
  • and last night I even tried no snack!
Lily just started a dose decrease of .5 units of Lantus on 3/29. She does have a history of ketoacidosis so I have been checking her ketones each day and will continue.

Does anyone have any advice for keeping the high numbers down?
Thank you for anyone taking the time to read and help! :cat:
 
The gravy food has lots of carbs in it. That is probably the cause of higher AMPS. I don't know if it's a bounce you are actually seeing but more like the high carb gravy.

How about trying low carb pate for snack. How big are your snacks? My snacks are 1/8 of FF can. Some give tsp for snack.

What food are you giving for main meal (shot time)?
 
Last night I didn't give Lily an extra snack after her +2 & + 5 snacks, and her blood glucose was 172 at 12:43 AM before bed. Right now Lily is on a Kitten Fancy Feast diet which is low carb. I only try to do a little gravy lovers to help with Lily's numbers if I think it will help.

Lily's Routine Feeding Schedule is:

In the morning - 1 can (3 oz) of Kitten Fancy Feast, w/ her insulin
@ + 2 - 1/4 can of Kitten Fancy Feast (.75 oz)
@ + 5 - 1/4 can of Kitten Fancy Feast (.75 oz)

In the evening - 1 can (3 oz) of Kitten Fancy Feast, w/ her insulin
@ + 2 - 1/4 can of Kitten Fancy Feast (.75 oz)
@ + 5 - 1/4 can of Kitten Fancy Feast (.75 oz)

* I have been trying an extra snack before bed sometimes if I am concerned with Lily getting low in the night. I have notated specific notes on my SS under remarks to keep track of the days that I fed Lily extra snacks that were not the regular 1/4 can of Kitten FF.

* Do you think my 1/4 of a can snacks are too large of a portion for Lily? I used to feed her 3 cans of Kitten Fancy Feast differently in a day. (which was 9 oz of food a day) I would do 1 & 1/2 cans of Kitten Fancy Feast in the morning and 1 & 1/2 cans of Kitten Fancy Feast at night. Other users on here suggested to split up Lily's portions to make her food easier to digest on her pancreas. So this is where the 1/4 can portion snacks have come into play.

I started doing this routine on February 19, 2019 this year. Lily still gets the same amount of calories with 3 cans of food a day, however she is just fed 6 times a day with the food spread out instead of just 2 times. (1 can + 1/4 can + 1/4 can + 1 can + 1/4 can + 1/4 can)
 
I agree with spreading the food out. Olive eats 1/2 can at shot time, 1/4 can +2, 1/8 can if she wants more during the cycle. Usually +1 or 2 and then +9 but not always. Nothing after +10 until shot time. Sometimes she wants more sometimes she doesn't eat it. I set a feeder for over night but she normally does not eat it. Most her meals are 3 or 4% carbs. Occasional 6% to keep from diving to fast or a very rare treat but never more than 1/8 of can.

It takes time to work out a food routine. Gravy food should only be for boosting really low numbers. Feeding after +6 maybe smaller amounts, because thats when most glucoses start to rise again might help.
 
Thanks for your input Paula! Lily would eat all day if I fed her. She just loves food. Anytime someone gets up at home to walk in another room Lily likes to beg. I'll have to think about what other ways I can split up Lily's food in a day?

Does Olive only eat a little less than 3 1/2 cans a day?
 
Olive is all about food. Her calorie needs is 2 1/2 cans a day. She is 13.3 lbs and I trying to keep her from gaining weight. Actually she would be better at 11-12 lbs.
 
Olive is a cute name for a cat! :cat: I understand. That is important to have weight control with a diabetic cat. Lily is 10 lbs and when she gets very sick she can get down to 8 or 9 lbs and it scares me. Lily was 14 lbs when she was diagnosed with diabetes. Maybe I will try to play with Lily's portions...

I could try to feed her 3/4 of a can with her insulin twice a day which would be 1 1/2 cans of kitten fancy feast. Then I could split up the remaining 1 1/2 cans 4 times a day equally at her usual +2 & +5 times. I think it would be good to keep Lily on 3 cans a day to maintain her weight.
 
I used to feed the curve with Max. I’m wondering why you give gravy lovers at night? It’s high carb and I always used it only if Max dropped under 50.
 
I don't always feed Lily the gravy lovers at night. On my spreadsheet I notated the times I did. I was trying to figure out what I could do to make her not bounce in the mornings. I thought she might be getting low when we are sleeping and that is why her numbers could be high in the morning.

I thought gravy lovers could be more helpful with bouncing? This is not her main diet as she only gets 1 or 2 teaspoons if I do try to use it as a tool. I will stay away from gravy lovers like you and Paula have suggested. That does make more sense to only use it if she drops below 50. I must have misunderstood as I thought other people on here used it as a snack tool to help balance blood glucose numbers. I thought it was a nice combination of giving the gravy which will act fast with BG levels and then the morsels would help kick in later.

I'll stick with the portions of her low carb diet Kitten Fancy Feast.

I am going to do 3/4 of a can with her insulin tonight. Then do 3/8 of a can at + 2 & + 5. I'll try this routine for a little bit and see what kind of numbers this brings.
 
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What might help is giving a teaspoon of middle carb food, something a little higher carbs than her lc food but again I’d only give mc if she’s lower than usual. Otherwise I’d feed a little of her regular lc food before you call it a night. You will have to experiment and then she will likely throw you a curve, lol. Fd can be frustrating. :bighug:
 
I just looked on the food chart and the ff kitten is 3% so mc would be around 10-12%. The gravy are around 20%.
 
Would you consider 15 % carbs high or medium? I just labelled and looked at the gravy lovers flavors I have. The Beef Feast is 20 % , but the chicken feast and turkey feasts are 15 %.

I found some on Dr. Lisa's chart that are 11 % - 12 % I could buy.

FANCY FEAST Medleys Shredded- Shredded White Meat Chicken Fare- 11% carb
FANCY FEAST Medleys Florentine - Shredded Wild Salmon Fare - 11% carb

FANCY FEAST Marinated Morsels in Gravy- Marinated Morsels Turkey Feast in Gravy, Marinated Morsels Beef Feast in Gravy, Marinated Morsels Salmon - Feast in Gravy - 12 %

FANCY FEAST Medleys Florentine - Wild Salmon Florentine in a Delicate Sauce- 12% carb
FANCY FEAST Medleys Florentine - White Meat Chicken Florentine in a Delicate Sauce - 13% carb

Also all of the Marinated Morsels in Gravy seem to be about 12% - 13%
 
Because your regular food is just 3% if my cat I would maybe try and find food around 10-12% to try as mc. Every cat is different. It’s going to be a trial and error kind of thing. You want something that will stop too drastically drop but not go the other way and cause a big increase. Sometimes even a late night snack of lc will get the job done. With Max it also depended on his bg before I called it a night.
 
Have you tried using an automatic feeder at night? I sometimes have set mine to provide a LC snack at around +6 and +9 PM, just to tide him over and keep him on an even keel overnight.
 
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Yes, I do have a feeder that I just got. I don't always trust that it opens though. It feels very flimsy. This is the Cat Mate Feeder. I bought some stones to weigh it down. I also had to tape over the timer, feeding tray, and tape up a cardboard box to put it in. When I have come home and used the feeder while gone, I did notice that it did open. However I do wonder if my cat opens it early, before the time I would like. I decided to put Lily's food in another dish inside this feeder. Those white plastic trays didn't feel like a good material to put wet food in. Lily gets a little water with her food and I actually put the food in another dish that fits inside.
 

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