3/3 Rocky PMPS 324 +2 273 +4 185 + 5.30 213 +11 188

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tina & Rocky

Member Since 2013
Good morning,

Rocky hit two 400s overnight..I didn't like that one bit. He has come down from there though to start the AMPS at 281. At least it's a yellow and not in the red. I don't have much hope that he will slide into the blues today. Rocky's BG can never seem to make it into the blues UNLESS he has a 'juice jump' to which he then very quickly goes too low.

Right now, I am super disappointed and feel like I will never be able to regulate his diabetes.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=114728

Rocky's yesterday SS recap:
AMPS 93
+1 118
+2 116
+3 163
+5 319
+7 399
+10 425

PMPS 362
+2 436
+8 387
+11 290
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky AMPS 281

Awww Tina, you sound like you need some hugs :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

FD is very frustrating! You're doing a great job with Rocky and it's just going to take more time. He's still pretty new to this dance, so don't get down on yourself.

It might help to also try some different foods. Some cats actually do better with a little higher carb food than the 0%. It might be worth a try to see if it makes any difference for Rocky.

When I first changed China over to the raw 0 and 1%, her numbers were all over the place too. Adding a little Fancy Feast to it to bring the carb percentage up a little helped.

Hang in there! We're all here with you!
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky AMPS 281 +2 250

Hi Chris,

I do have some of the FF Classic Chicken Pate here at the house. I could feed him a 3oz. can of that dinner at 10pm tonight. Are we talking about replacing an entire meal with a higher carb meal?

I don't know how many carbs that one can of FF has in it.

The only reason I stopped feeding Rocky chicken and turkey was because I thought he was allergic to it.
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky AMPS 281 +2 250

Well if he's allergic to chicken or turkey, we should probably try to figure out which one (or both) anyway. It'll give you more options.

Both the chicken and the turkey flavors of FF also contain liver, so it's possible that's the problem too.

The Classic chicken is 4% and the Classic turkey and giblets is 3%. The Chunky chicken is 5% and the Chunky Turkey is 7%

What I did with China was mix the raw with a teaspoon of FF at each meal, and then depending on how it affected her numbers, tried going up to 1.5 teaspoons with each meal (reducing the amount of Instinct to make the calories stay about the same)

You wouldn't want to just change over to a whole can of FF for one meal and 0% Instinct for the other because if Rocky does need more carbs, that would yo-yo him even worse. It's all trial and error when you try different things, and all you can do is try different combinations and see how he does.

You might also want to look into other flavors of the Instinct. Not all of them are 0%
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky AMPS 281 +2 250 +4 283

Hi Chris,

Well, I thought that he had a chicken or turkey allergy but I don't think it was that now. All of that lost fur was most likely due to ringworm, which he is still fighting. He gets one pill a day in the morning for that. With my car broken down twice now, washing machine broke and researching for new one, trying to complete 501c3 papers and file for grant, I haven't had any time to give Rocky his lime-sulfur bath dip yet. HOWEVER, nearly all of his naked skin is now covered with fur again, accept for one silver dollar sized patch on his throat. It's ringworm and not fleas. You can see the outline of it.

I guess what I'm saying is that I am now willing to try the chicken or turkey again. I do think that those will send his BG a lot higher though because when I switched him from NVIV to grain-free Wellness Turkey in the hospital his BG went sky rocket high. That's part of the reason I started using the NVIV again.

Also, he really didn't like Wellness. He would barely touch it, with his paw!!! It was too funny. You had to see him try to eat it. He would dip his paw into, look up at me and say, "What is this CRAP?" He would then smell it, then vigorously shake it off of his paw before giving it another whiff and then walked away.
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky AMPS 281 +2 250 +4 283 +6 316

Tina & Rocky said:
Rocky's yesterday SS recap:

AMPS 93
+1 118
+2 116
+3 163
+5 319
+7 399
+10 425

PMPS 362
+2 436
+8 387
+11 290

I've changed your recap from yesterday to reflect what i think is most important. That sweet green 93 yesterday morning is driving the whole show since then. Look how his numbers went straight up from that. He might've even been lower than that in the hours before the 93.

Perspective is everything.

He's bounced. I know it's a hard concept to grasp. Have you read the post about it? I know i've given it to you several times, but am not sure if you're understanding it. I found it confusing. His body is reacting to the low numbers by releasing sugars and hormones - they send him sky high. It doesn't mean you need to do anything except wait. It can take 3 full days - which would be Wednesday morning - before it clears.

It can clear before then, but it might not. He's still in the bounce today with all these 200's and 300's. He might be high all the way until Wednesday. Just hang in there.
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky AMPS 281 +2 250 +4 283 +6 316

Here's the explanation from the NDW link at the bottom of the "New to the Group" sticky.

julie & punkin (ga) said:
when you increase a dose of lantus, you would expect the BG numbers to go lower, right? that's logical. more insulin = lower numbers. only there is a lag time sometimes - increase the dose and for some reason the numbers go higher. that can last a day or so, and then suddenly you start seeing those lower numbers you expected. we call those higher numbers "New Dose Wonkiness" or NDW.

this is the reason we wait following each dose increase to let it settle and see what it's really doing.

now not every cat does that, of course. ECID. sometimes you increase the dose and you immediately see lower numbers. the point of this post is to say that IF you increase a dose AND you see higher numbers, give it a couple of days for things to settle down and then you can assess the dose to see what it's really doing.



the second part of the post is saying that this doesn't apply to a cat when you DECREASE a dose. let's say mookie drops below 50 today and you decrease the dose. if you see higher numbers following the dose decrease, that's not NDW. NDW only applies when you're increasing a dose. higher numbers following a dose decrease can be from one of two things. one possibility is that it simply isn't enough insulin. another possibility is if the cat dropped quickly, or if the cat dropped into a lower range of numbers than it was used to, that can cause a bounce.

BOUNCING

Here is an example of a bounce from someone's recent condo:

you can spot a bounce this way (this only took me 6 months to learn and a bunch of people explaining it! i'm a slow learner!)

yesterday morning you had a 215 - then it went 235, 271, 270, and then 308 this morning - basically straight up. no curve. and then look backwards in the ss and the night before was that sweet little 148 12 hours earlier.

if you imagine that night-time cycle, starting at 148, kitty probably went down in a nice little curve, hitting something under 100 mid-cycle. that lower-than-usual number would've shocked her body. they get accustomed to whatever range they're in, and any sudden dip lower can set this off.

"HELLO WE"VE GOT A 911 HERE- KITTY'S GOING DOWN!" yells Mr. Liver. Fortunately, mr liver has a storehouse of counter-regulatory hormones and stored sugar (in case kitty needs a little nommy sweets in the middle of the night) and when Kitty gets into a range of numbers lower than usual, Mr. Liver lets loose with the sugar and the hormones and sends Kitty on a rocket to the moon. this is the cat's body's protective mechanism to keep the cat from becoming hypoglycemic. unfortunately, mr liver doesn't seem to know that anything above 40ish isn't a crisis and it will do this regardless of the range of numbers, even at 200 if the cat has become accustomed to 400.

A second cause of a bounce is if a cat drops very quickly. 100 points in an hour, for example, regardless of the range the BG number is in, can cause a bounce as well.

So, what to do now? don't increase the dose because of these higher numbers. once this bounce clears, which can take up to 3 days of high numbers if mr liver is super-active, then if you had increased the dose, it would be too high. you are entering the phase of treatment that we say requires "Patience Pants." when you think you're seeing a bounce, you have to wait it out, then you can see what the dose really does. You will know the bounce has cleared when you start seeing numbers you were seeing before - like that 148 again.

edited for clarity.
 
Re: 3/3 Rocky PMPS 324

He MAY need to go up...or he could be on pretty good dose and he's bouncing. The only choice you have is to just wait out the bounce, up to 72 hours from when he bounced from 93 to 399 in 6 hours.

Some cats clear bounces faster than others, so there's just no way to look into our crystal ball and see when Rocky's going to break this bounce.

If at all possible, get a +2 and a +5 through +7 tonight too. Those wee hours of the morning he could be dropping really low and then bouncing back high so we need to know!

Hang in there Tina!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top