3/3/13 Angie PMPS=101 +2=139 +3.5=90 +4.5=104

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GraceAndAngie

GraceAndAngie

Member Since 2013
Good morning! ~O)

I may or may not have done a fur shot this morning. I wish I knew which one I did! I'm feeling slightly more sane this morning but I have to go out for most of the day today. I'll be leaving at +4.5 (unless Angie is diving again - in which case I'll be late). We are going to spend a (cold and wet) summer's day playing on Sydney Harbour with my cousins who are visiting/tourists.

Angie got a reduction yesterday under dubious circumstances. She got a low +4.5 of 38 but I didn't retest and it may have been a dodgy number because she climbed up to 110 by +5. She got the reduction just in case. Her numbers since are no worse (so far) than after other reductions.

Yesterday's recap:
AMPS - 122, insulin 0.25
+1 ---- 180
+2 ---- 133
+4.5 - 38, 1 tsp high carb food, did not retest, may be faulty because of quickly going higher after
+5 ---- 110
+5.5 - 119
+6.5 - 104
+8 ---- 95
PMPS - 135, insulin 0.1
+2 ---- 110
+3 ---- 72
+4 ---- 121

Yesterday's condo is here.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Good Morning :-D What time is it, where you are? It's 2:52pm, here.
Congratulations again, on the dosecrease. I hope you have a lovely day visiting with your cousins.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Sorry, I just went back and scanned your condo from yesterday, and I guess I didn't say congratulations, yesterday.

How did you do in measuring that 0.10 dose? I know those little itty bitty doses will feel like a fur shot.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160 - help? not coping well.

Yesterday I posted this, and got two lovely responses from Courtney. I would love some help if you have any suggestions.

I've been battling an auto-immune disease for about two years and finally had to quit my job in November last year. I have had a strong improvement this month but, after pushing myself to stay up with Angie, feel like I'm close to crashing again. I can't afford to let myself get so sick again - it won't help me and then I wouldn't be able to look after Angie properly either. I know that good rest is key to my health - as it calms down my immune system. I can't keep going like this for much longer. I've been napping during the day as much as possible but it's been hard because Angie's numbers have required a close watch most days. I'm not functioning properly - I feel constantly sleep deprived, am having trouble making decisions, remembering things (including testing and insulin), am getting shaky, and am not keeping up in other areas of my life.

Very shortly, something will have to give. Last year I was sleeping 14 hours a night and could hardly move if I was woken up earlier than that. If I get back to that, I won't be able to look after her properly at all but also, I will put myself back months of recovery. I can't afford (financially or emotionally) to do that.

I don't want to put her at risk but is there a way of looking after her that will require less frequent testing - even if it's not going to get her better as fast? I note that some people test far less often - is that because their cat's are more stable? I feel very sad to ask this when she seems to be doing so well.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Dyana said:
How did you do in measuring that 0.10 dose? I know those little itty bitty doses will feel like a fur shot.
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I've been measuring to the back of the 0 line. I have a sample syringe with blue food colouring and water and have been adjusting that with her doses to try and get them to be the same. There isn't syringes with 0.5 markings in Australia so my sample has been very important for the doses below 1 unit.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Good morning, Grace! Nice AMPS for Miss Angie. It might be a good idea to edit your first post this morning and include "Question" in your subject line so folks will know that you're looking for advice.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

I have an autoimmune condition too, also for about the past two years. If you look at my cat Jazzy's spreadsheet, you can see a LOT of times when I forgot shots, overslept, dozed off without testing... We do the best we can.

Coming down the dosing scale is always the most stressful part of the journey. Angie has come down in dose very quickly since you changed her food. That would be hard on anybody. I was healthy when Lucy decided to run down the dosing scale, and I remember feeling like a zombie then too. 0.1 units is a dose that *should* be very safe, even if she gets into low numbers. I say should - we have seen at least one cat have an actual symptomatic hypo on this dose, so it is possible, but I seriously mean I can think of one cat in the five years I have been here, so that is quite rare.

Here's what can help you feel comfortable with the numbers and the dose: look at yesterday - she was 38. You gave just one tsp of high carb and that bumped her right up to 110. Maybe low carb would have done the trick - she didn't need a 70 point bump, really 30 points would have been just as good. Last night she was 72 and again she bumped up quickly (what did you feed after the 72?). So Angie seems to have a good response to carbs.

Next time she drops low, watch her. Does she seem to know she is going low and head to her food dish on her own? If so, that's a good thing. Then try feeding a little LOW carb food, and test in 30 minutes to see how many points that bumped her up. If you know she can recognize that she is heading low, and if you know that the regular low carb food that is in her dish is enough to bump her back up to safety, then you can feel pretty confident that she will be able to take care of herself even if you sleep. Of course if you get a +2 test at night and can already tell that she is plunging downward, it's best to get that drop slowed down before you go to sleep, but at least if you do fall asleep she'll be ok. 0.1 units is not a lot of insulin, so in most cats it doesn't take a ton of carbs to overcome that little amount of insulin.

And, with a little more time, I wouldn't be surprised if Angie decides to ditch her insulin altogether. She looks like she is trying. Then you'll be able to sleep whenever you want.

You're doing great, hang in there!
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160 - help? not coping well.

I was going to post that hopefully Angie will be off the insulin soon, and was halfway through reading Libby's response when I felt I just had to ask is something wrong (I mean besides your auto immune condition)? I see the subject of help? and not coping well. That just scares me.

I think measuring the dose the way you are is correct to get a 0.10. Like I said hopefully, Angie will not be on insulin long, and you can hang in there a little bit longer. Hugs.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Libby and Lucy said:
Next time she drops low, watch her. Does she seem to know she is going low and head to her food dish on her own? If so, that's a good thing. Then try feeding a little LOW carb food, and test in 30 minutes to see how many points that bumped her up. If you know she can recognize that she is heading low, and if you know that the regular low carb food that is in her dish is enough to bump her back up to safety, then you can feel pretty confident that she will be able to take care of herself even if you sleep. Of course if you get a +2 test at night and can already tell that she is plunging downward, it's best to get that drop slowed down before you go to sleep, but at least if you do fall asleep she'll be ok. 0.1 units is not a lot of insulin, so in most cats it doesn't take a ton of carbs to overcome that little amount of insulin.

And, with a little more time, I wouldn't be surprised if Angie decides to ditch her insulin altogether. She looks like she is trying. Then you'll be able to sleep whenever you want.

You're doing great, hang in there!
Click to expand...
I agree with Libby. And if you get an auto feeder and maybe start to get her used to it now, maybe you can set it up to feed her at her nadir time at night, and if she is lower than normal one night you can up the carbs in the auto feeder food a bit. That should allow you to sleep more comfortably. If she's a lot lower than normal one night, you would need to stay up with her, but knock on wood, hopefully she'll be diet controlled soon :cool:
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Dyana said:
I just had to ask is something wrong (I mean besides your auto immune condition)? I see the subject of help? and not coping well. That just scares me.
Click to expand...

No, nothing more than that. I've just been worried because I've gone to sleep sometimes and missed checks that I really wanted to get - like the night she dropped from 160 at PMPS to 95 at +2 - she's done that at other times and ended up in the 40's. After that +2 I fell asleep. I worry that she might go hypo and not be awake to help her. I was worried that I shouldn't have her on tight regulation if I couldn't keep up with the testing. I just can't stay awake sometimes.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

I can't leave food out or use an auto-feeder because Jetzin, my other cat, eats everything up and she misses out. He's faster, jumps higher, more agile, can squeeze in anywhere she can. If I separate them, they just yowl on either side of the closed door wondering what the other one has that they don't.

If I need to sleep, I might be able to sneak some food into a room for Angie on occasion and hope that Mr. Hoover doesn't spot it. If I don't do it often, he may not notice.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Unfortunately I have a civvie Ginger that I don't try to separate from J.D. and she seems to be getting fatter, too.
I never know how much she eats and how much J.D. eats when I go to work, so I just leave more food out than they both can eat. It wastes food, and Ginger gets fluffier as we like to say, but that's what I do.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

She also doesn't always seem to know that she needs to eat. She eats hungrily when I move her to the food bowl (when she's been low in the past). She seems to need encouraging to eat - she hasn't asked for food, gone there herself or sometimes even come when I've called her to it with a treat waiting.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

I could put some frozen cat mince out so neither of them can finish it off in one go and see how that works.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Hopefully Angie will be OTJ soon, but as Libby pointed out, hypo in micro dosed cats is extremely rare so I hope that takes some stress off.

Aww, your poor kitties don't like to be separated! When DH and I first got together, he didn't like Kismet sleeping with us because he has a tendency to "stomp" on us in the middle of the night and wake us up early to let us know a new day has begun and he is hungry. He has since been granted bedroom permission since he has learned proper bedtime etiquette, but for the first few days he was banished in that period when he wasn't allowed to sleep with us, he would howl outside of the door. The reason I am telling this story is because they eventually learn and adjust. Maybe you can try letting Angie sleep in the room with you and keep Jetzin out. It might take a few days, but they should both eventually adjust. You can try building in rewards to the new sleeping arrangements by giving them both treats at bedtime when you separate them. Just an idea.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

GraceAndAngie said:
She also doesn't always seem to know that she needs to eat. She eats hungrily when I move her to the food bowl (when she's been low in the past). She seems to need encouraging to eat - she hasn't asked for food, gone there herself or sometimes even come when I've called her to it with a treat waiting.
Click to expand...
I understand that concern. I have woken J.D. up before and he was snoozing away in the 30s.
What I was thinking is maybe you could get her used to the auto feeder set for a certain time each night (even if you happen to be awake) and maybe her tummy will get used to eating at that certain time and automatically feel hungry. I know if I eat at the same time each day over and over, I will become hungry at that time. It's just a thought.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Courtney and Kismet said:
Hopefully Angie will be OTJ soon, but as Libby pointed out, hypo in micro dosed cats is extremely rare so I hope that takes some stress off.

Aww, your poor kitties don't like to be separated! When DH and I first got together, he didn't like Kismet sleeping with us because he has a tendency to "stomp" on us in the middle of the night and wake us up early to let us know a new day has begun and he is hungry. He has since been granted bedroom permission since he has learned proper bedtime etiquette, but for the first few days he was banished in that period when he wasn't allowed to sleep with us, he would howl outside of the door. The reason I am telling this story is because they eventually learn and adjust. Maybe you can try letting Angie sleep in the room with you and keep Jetzin out. It might take a few days, but they should both eventually adjust. You can try building in rewards to the new sleeping arrangements by giving them both treats at bedtime when you separate them. Just an idea.
Click to expand...

That could work - or have Jetzin in (he's been very jealous of the attention Angie is getting) and Angie out with her food bowl - I get up to test her in the lounge so that my partner isn't disturbed. A treat for each so that Jetzin doesn't realise that she's got more food then him.

I don't want to ask my partner for help. He's already working very long hours - supporting me while I've been sick and paying child support. He's not so into pets but has come around to having them on his lap (the favourite spot in this house), on the bed, and he often helps out unasked. The kids absolutely adore them - Jetzin more so because he tolerates so much. Angie just goes and hides if they get too boisterous.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Hi Grace :smile:

First time I visited Angie's profile, great looking kitties :-D My Simon's the same age as Angie, and even if
he's hungry, sometimes I carry him down to the kitchen. It's like "Yes, I'm hungry, but I'm also comfortable" ;-)
He's stiff after laying down for a while too.

I wanted to add about the small doses too - the likelihood of an "event" is much lower.

I'm so sorry about your health difficulties, it's hard enough dealing with this... You're doing a fantastic job, Angie's numbers
are wonderful. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Dyana said:
What I was thinking is maybe you could get her used to the auto feeder set for a certain time each night (even if you happen to be awake) and maybe her tummy will get used to eating at that certain time and automatically feel hungry. I know if I eat at the same time each day over and over, I will become hungry at that time. It's just a thought.
Click to expand...

It's worth trying - although she hasn't often begged for food since she got diabetes. I've fed her an hour late by accident and not been asked. She used to be my alarm clock and start an hour before breakfast time. The auto-feeder I used to have recorded my voice and would call the cats. That at least would wake her and remind her about food. If I had two set at the same time then Jetzin wouldn't be able to gobble both - as long as Angie bothered to get up.

Thanks Dayana, Courtney and Libby. You have given me some great ideas. I will definitely try them to see what works for us.

Libby - your post gave me a lot of comfort. If coming down the dosing scale is the hardest (and if starting out is the hardest) then we probably have the worst behind us. As you said, Angie can't come down the dosing scale much further without going OTJ and she can't keep going under 50 every other day without going OTJ. If she's always on insulin the more data I get for her the easier it will be to know when to stay with her and when to sleep or get other things done.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160

Libby and Lucy said:
Last night she was 72 and again she bumped up quickly (what did you feed after the 72?). So Angie seems to have a good response to carbs.
Click to expand...

I didn't feed her anything. She just came up on her own. Her nadir has been between +2 and +5 each time (72 was at +3 so I was just assuming that it was her nadir and she was on her way up.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160 +2=140

You're most welcome! Paws crossed that you will find something that works and you can start getting the rest that you need.
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160 +2=140

Another idea that just occurred to me is that perhaps you can feed a slightly higher carb LC food at dinner time. Maybe a food around 6% carbs will help her surf at night? I have no idea if this is feasible, or advisable, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

What kind of food are you feeding her now? Do you have the nutrition values on it?
 
Re: 3/3/13 Angie AMPS=160 +2=140

Courtney and Kismet said:
What kind of food are you feeding her now? Do you have the nutrition values on it?
Click to expand...

I'm feeding her home-made food. I'm using the chicken recipe from Dr Lisa Pierson's website catinfo.org. I don't know the nutritional values on it.

Edit - I also have been feeding her a cat mince from the supermarket that is a mix of kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidney and vitamins. There is nothing else on the ingredients list and it seems low in preservatives as it browns. I don't plan to buy more as the cats prefer the home made recipe and I know that there is nothing nasty in it.
 
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