3/28Ravan/amps78/+4 86/+8 81/pmps83/+4 43/+6 63/+8 58/
- Thread starter JoyBee&Ravan
- Start date
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
Ravan's SS is looking spectacular! What do you think caused him to finally turn the corner?
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
I'm thinking it's the really good CBD oil he gets. I was only giving it to him 3 or 4 times a week. I decided to give it every day & that's when I started to see improvement in his BG
carfurby (GA)
Member Since 2012
This is from the TR Protocol.
- Alternatively, attempt a reduction when the cat regularly has its lowest BGs in the normal range of a non-diabetic healthy cat (50 - 80 mg/dL) while staying under 100 mg/dl overall for at least one week.
Sonia & Leo
Member Since 2018
Wow Ravan!!! Look at you!!!
Olive & Paula
Member Since 2015
Beautiful sea of green !!!!!!! Do I see a trial on the horizon????
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
Wow!!! Some really good numbers for Raven. And maybe you are right that the daily CBD oil is the answer.
It nice when they start earning reduction from being under 100 for a week.
Loved George Carlin. Once back in the 70's, I saw him in concert. He was so funny and so fast with his lines that I could hardly catch my breath from laughing so hard. My diaphragm ached for days from the convulsive laughing.
It nice when they start earning reduction from being under 100 for a week.
Loved George Carlin. Once back in the 70's, I saw him in concert. He was so funny and so fast with his lines that I could hardly catch my breath from laughing so hard. My diaphragm ached for days from the convulsive laughing.
Sonia & Leo
Member Since 2018
You may be on to something! I was thinking of getting some for Leo hoping he might get the munchies for something other than fish. What kind to you get?I'm thinking it's the really good CBD oil he gets. I was only giving it to him 3 or 4 times a week. I decided to give it every day & that's when I started to see improvement in his BG
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
The only one I've been using for over 4 years is "Charlotte's Web" Here's the story of how this CBD Oil was developed https://healthyhempoil.com/charlottes-web/
At the time I bought it I don't think they had CBD for animals yet,so I bought the strongest one they had for people & only used a few drops. My Kitty at the time had Melanoma & had stopped eating.(Ravans' little brother)
The first time I gave it to him I was Shocked that he started eating again in a few hours.He held out for a year & still had an appetite the day he died.
Now they have one called "PAWS" It's expensive but it lasts a long time because I only use a few drops. https://www.charlottesweb.com/dog-cbd-oil
I was Happy my Vet told me Cornell University said it was one of the "Trusted" brands they recommended! He said some of the Brands they tested had hardly any CBD in them ( the CBD is mixed with a carrier oil like coconut oil)
Here's a good article about the benefits of CBD Oil https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317221.php
I hope it helps Leo! Let me know.
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
Lucky you got to see him. I still watch him on videos (YouTube.
What Forum can I post on about him? ( "Off Topic?)
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
OOOO that brought tears to my eyes!! I'm afraid to reduce!I don't want to see his BG go back up!!
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
Gotta give him a chance!OOOO that brought tears to my eyes!! I'm afraid to reduce!I don't want to see his BG go back up!!
You both deserves that
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
It's only 3 days he's been under a 100. And he had some 90's. So how does this work. Even though he gets 90's if he stays under a 100 I reduce by .25?
What if I reduce & he goes up over 100? Do I ,next shot, go back to the previous dose?
During the night when he goes into 50's I've been giving him Med carbs. That 38 last week at shot time was a surprise! If I reduce do i stop giving med carbs to see what he'll do?
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
I am going to tag @Bobbie And Bubba - she has more experience with reducing due to all green numbers.. She will chime in with good advise
I will post this from the regulation page here:
Bellasmom
Member Since 2018
I was thinking the same thing
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
If it were me, I wouldn't take him back up to the previous dose unless the number was over 120. Under that is still a normal number. Since the meter variance can be + or - 20% we use the guide line for 100 and under to allow for that. In a few cycles if he continues up over and you see the nadirs starting to climb, then I would take him back to the previous dose. You will know if it is becoming a trend and just not a off cycle.
Once he's had mostly green numbers for one week, give that boy a reduction. This is really lovely to see, Joy.
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
What do you mean by mostly green #"s ? Below 120 ? He had 156 five days ago. So today will only be the 4th day IF he stays below 120.
Darn,maybe I'm talking about this too soon. His bg looks like it's going up a bit! A few 90's yesterday & 80's
today.This is going to drive me Crazy!!
Should I still give him carbs at night if he goes to 50's ? Or do I let it go to say 45 & then give carbs?
Judy and Boomer
Member Since 2014
This is the 10th cycle at 1.0u and there's only one blue on his ss during this period. After 14 cycles, assuming he keeps up giving you these awesome numbers, you can decrease to .75u.
Don't panic if he goes back over 100! It might take him a few cycles to settle into the dose.
You also told me the other day that you've having to give him medium carb food at night so that you can get a bit of sleep. If you're giving him medium carb food and he's still giving you those lovely 50s, 60s and 70s, I would say he's definitely ready for a reducie!
Don't panic if he goes back over 100! It might take him a few cycles to settle into the dose.
You also told me the other day that you've having to give him medium carb food at night so that you can get a bit of sleep. If you're giving him medium carb food and he's still giving you those lovely 50s, 60s and 70s, I would say he's definitely ready for a reducie!
Jill & Scooter
Member Since 2018
Hope he earns the reducie! Reducies are the best!
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
@Marje and Gracie
@Wendy&Neko
I was reading over your comments about Kidney Disease on Bellas Post. I didn't see any mention of giving Calcitriol or Renadyl. Both are supposed to slow the progression of the disease.
I also read on Tanya's site that the goal for Phosphorus Levels in CKD cats is less than 4.6 mg
Ravan's is 5.7 so I've been adding Binder when I use FF to bring up his bg. FF has High phos.
Other wise he's eating mostly his raw diet.
@Wendy&Neko
I was reading over your comments about Kidney Disease on Bellas Post. I didn't see any mention of giving Calcitriol or Renadyl. Both are supposed to slow the progression of the disease.
I also read on Tanya's site that the goal for Phosphorus Levels in CKD cats is less than 4.6 mg
Ravan's is 5.7 so I've been adding Binder when I use FF to bring up his bg. FF has High phos.
Other wise he's eating mostly his raw diet.
Bobbie And Bubba
Member Since 2015
I agree with @Judy and Boomer 's post. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Just keep on doing what you are doing. It's not time yet to reduce, we were just putting a bug in your ear. Keep posting daily and peeps here will help you. I understand how rattle it makes you. Let's just see what the next few cycles do.
PS: if you are giving MC food at night, why not try holding out with the MC until he goes under 50. Otherwise, just give LC. And let's see where he lands in the AM.
ETA: Remember, he is a long term diabetic now. Don't be so scared of the under 50's especially if it is from about +4 - 7. With a long term diabetic, it's 3 drops under 50 on three separate days or once under 40. You've got this Joy, You are so hands on with testing.
PS: if you are giving MC food at night, why not try holding out with the MC until he goes under 50. Otherwise, just give LC. And let's see where he lands in the AM.
ETA: Remember, he is a long term diabetic now. Don't be so scared of the under 50's especially if it is from about +4 - 7. With a long term diabetic, it's 3 drops under 50 on three separate days or once under 40. You've got this Joy, You are so hands on with testing.
Last edited:
Tanya’s states to start binder at 6 unless the number was higher and has come back down.
I’m copying @Bellasmom so she can see your comments and my responses.
Renadyl is like Azodyl; it’s just a probiotic. For some cats, it makes them feel better but I never saw a change in my cat; Azodyl certainly wasn’t worth the expense. However, it doesn’t hurt to give them a probiotic (I give my healthy cats probiotics daily).
There is a lot of debate on the use of calcitriol if there is not evidence of secondary hyperparathyroidism. Some people indicate it seems to make the cat feel better but there are cautions that come with it. I have not used it with my CKD cats because, at the time, it just wasn’t used unless a cat had secondary hyperparathyroidism. It just needs to be used with caution and monitored as it can raise the calcium level so anyone whose cat had an elevated ionized calcium level would want to use extreme caution.
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
@Marje and Gracie
Maybe some of this information is new ?
This is referred to from Tanyas' website
If plasma phosphate concentration remains above 1.5 mmol/l (4.6 mg/dl) after dietary restriction, give enteric phosphate binders (such as aluminium hydroxide)
http://www.iris-kidney.com/pdf/002-...ent-recommendation-pdfs-cats_070116-final.pdf
"it is desirable to administer calcitriol at low doses as early as possible in kidney failure to avoid PTH excess from occurring in the first place."
Taken from this web site http://www.zzcat.com/CRF/calcitriol/calcitriol2.htm
This probiotic supplement is known for its ability to target and help reduce the buildup of uremic toxins in the body, thus helping to maintain healthy kidney function, by means of Kibow’s Uremic Toxin Reduction Technology.
https://kibowbiotech.com/kibow-biot...rds-failing-kidney-function-original-concept/
Maybe some of this information is new ?
This is referred to from Tanyas' website
If plasma phosphate concentration remains above 1.5 mmol/l (4.6 mg/dl) after dietary restriction, give enteric phosphate binders (such as aluminium hydroxide)
http://www.iris-kidney.com/pdf/002-...ent-recommendation-pdfs-cats_070116-final.pdf
"it is desirable to administer calcitriol at low doses as early as possible in kidney failure to avoid PTH excess from occurring in the first place."
Taken from this web site http://www.zzcat.com/CRF/calcitriol/calcitriol2.htm
This probiotic supplement is known for its ability to target and help reduce the buildup of uremic toxins in the body, thus helping to maintain healthy kidney function, by means of Kibow’s Uremic Toxin Reduction Technology.
https://kibowbiotech.com/kibow-biot...rds-failing-kidney-function-original-concept/
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
Where are you? I looked for your condo & couldn't find any recent posting? SS is not up to date either?
Like Marje, I tried Azodyl. It didn't do anything special to either Neko's blood work or how she felt. My vet recommended a general purpose probiotic with more different strains of probiotics.
I have a simpler solution, why don't you just feed a higher carb food that is low phosphorus? Plenty of options in the Weruva line. Or just add honey/karo to his raw, or some have even experimented with making a gravy from rice or potato flour.
If you look at Tanya’s under “Phosphorus Control” it states:
If one is starting out at a normal P level, like Bella is (4.4), the best approach is to try and keep it low with diet and lower P foods. One can even add cooked egg white as it is high in good protein but low in P. It doesn’t bind the P in food but it brings down the overall P level of the meal given.
If you start binders too soon, you risk, in the case of aluminum hydroxide, aluminum toxicity. You can only give so much binder....you can’t just keep adding to the dose; there is an upper limit. It’s easier to keep a nice, low P level lower than it is to try and bring down a high one. Binders can also cause constipation. Some of the binders with calcium can raise calcium levels. It’s a balancing act. I will say that if the Ca x P is over 70, it doesn’t matter what the P level is; you should use binders to get that number down as it is often easier to bring down P a bit than Ca.
Insofar as David Jacobsen’s website on calcitriol use, I’m not arguing the point. I stated there is controversy but some people think it makes their cat feel better. Each CG has to speak with their vet and determine if it’s right for their cat, if they can afford it, if they can monitor levels, etc. I’m all for anything that makes a CKD cat feel better or potentially prevent PTH.
As far as Renadyl, well, yes, they say that because they want you to buy it. If you think it works, great! I know people that felt Azodyl helped their cats with uremia. It didn’t help mine. If I had a CKD cat, would I try Renadyl? Yes, if I’d read the studies (and those done by other than Kibow) to see if it helps.
When it comes to CKD treatments, some things work for some cats and some don’t. It’s up to the CG to study the info (I think the best is on Tanya’s) and decide what works best for their cat in consultation with their vet.
Last edited:
Wendy makes an excellent point. I’ve seen some people say they’ll just let their cat eat whatever food it wants regardless of high how the P level is and then they’ll add binder (I’m not including you in “some people”). That’s not the way to approach CKD. As I said before, there’s only so much binder you can give so it’s best to approach it from a low P diet and then add binder when the diet is no longer effective at keeping the P down as the CKD progresses.
Bellasmom
Member Since 2018
Thank you!
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
I've tried the Weruva, my 3 cats loved it at first, but then they all vomited? I thought maybe it was from all the Gums in the food?
Same thing when I tried Food Fur Life & Alnutrin.
Soulistic Turkey & Purina Renal & a bit of Raw is what they're eating.
Thanks for your advice.
JoyBee&Ravan
Member Since 2018
@Marje and Gracie
Dr. Larry Nagode, advises to start early with twice a week nano dose of Calcitriol ( DVM, PHD, is a Professor Emeritus of Veterinary Pathology in the Biosciences Department of The Ohio State University Veterinary College. ) and
Dr. Dennis Chew, DVM, DACVIM, is Professor of Urology, Nephrology and Internal Medicine in the Clinical Sciences Department of The Ohio State University Veterinary College and an active small animal clinician at the OSU veterinary teaching hospital.
Dr. Pierson & Dr. Karen Becker advise starting a nano dose of Calcitriol early.
I'm been giving it to Ravan based on their advice and you state to use it with caution. I certainly don't want to hurt Ravan. Aren't the Doctors I listed here reputable?
I researched this for hours & felt it was safe & an excellent idea based on what I read. That's why I gave the information to Bellas mom. I feel that "every time" I try to help someone and give advice I'm contradicted.
In the year Ravan has Diabetes I've spent hundreds of hours trying to educate myself about Diabetes & other health problems in cats.
Although Dr Pierson has info on dry cat food on this forum. I seldom hear anyone advise people not to feed dry food.
"Dr. Pierson’s practice is now limited to consulting with cat caregivers worldwide. The most common health issues she deals with are kidney disease, diabetes, urinary tract issues, inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), and obesity. All these feline health issues tie directly to biologically inappropriate diets.
Dr. Pierson is strongly opposed to feeding any dry food to cats."
A lot of what I read on the forums is confusing. I'm getting very discouraged.
Dr. Larry Nagode, advises to start early with twice a week nano dose of Calcitriol ( DVM, PHD, is a Professor Emeritus of Veterinary Pathology in the Biosciences Department of The Ohio State University Veterinary College. ) and
Dr. Dennis Chew, DVM, DACVIM, is Professor of Urology, Nephrology and Internal Medicine in the Clinical Sciences Department of The Ohio State University Veterinary College and an active small animal clinician at the OSU veterinary teaching hospital.
Dr. Pierson & Dr. Karen Becker advise starting a nano dose of Calcitriol early.
I'm been giving it to Ravan based on their advice and you state to use it with caution. I certainly don't want to hurt Ravan. Aren't the Doctors I listed here reputable?
I researched this for hours & felt it was safe & an excellent idea based on what I read. That's why I gave the information to Bellas mom. I feel that "every time" I try to help someone and give advice I'm contradicted.
In the year Ravan has Diabetes I've spent hundreds of hours trying to educate myself about Diabetes & other health problems in cats.
Although Dr Pierson has info on dry cat food on this forum. I seldom hear anyone advise people not to feed dry food.
"Dr. Pierson’s practice is now limited to consulting with cat caregivers worldwide. The most common health issues she deals with are kidney disease, diabetes, urinary tract issues, inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), and obesity. All these feline health issues tie directly to biologically inappropriate diets.
Dr. Pierson is strongly opposed to feeding any dry food to cats."
A lot of what I read on the forums is confusing. I'm getting very discouraged.
Please reread what I wrote about Calcitriol.
As I stated, I’m not trying to argue the point on whether it’s good to give it early or not. I’m very familiar with those vets and their positions. They are very smart and on the cutting edge of treating CKD. And, as I stated, I’ve never had to use it but it’s been a while since I had CKD cats and, back then, it wasn’t used unless a cat has secondary PTH. I am absolutely not trying to contradict you on this; to coin a phrase, “I don’t have a dog in this fight”. If you’ve researched it and it’s the right thing for Ravan, go for it! He’s your cat.
On the dry food, I’ve just seen too many people over the years here get their noses out of joint if they are feeding dry and are constantly told it’s not good for their cat. You know it’s not, I know it’s not, and they know it’s not. Dr. Lisa did a post on it and, if they’ve never been given it, I’ll provide it. The whole discussion on food should happen on Health so by the time they get to this forum, they should already know it.
If a CG still chooses to feed it, we’ve given them the info. It’s their decision and it’s their business. They “should” do SLGS and if they are doing TR, I’ll advise them that a requisite to do TR is no dry food. If they continue to feed dry and do TR, I walk away.
At some point, you have to realize that not everyone is willing to do for their cat (or can do) what you can or I can. Let it go. It’s their cat, their decision.