3/27 Frosty AMPS 621 :-(, PMPS 516, +3 358; split up evening feed

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

Yesterday’s post

Could it be the Zobaline?
Also, someone else mentioned in a different post that sometimes numbers can be artificially high even during the day if the insulin dose is too high. Could that be the case? The more I look at my spreadsheet, the more it looks like Frosty had better numbers on less insulin.

Please advise

 

[Stacy & Asia]

The data from the lower doses is so long ago, it really doesn't count as to what is going on now. I don't think the zobaline has anything to do with it, or at least I haven't heard of zobaline doing anything crazy with numbers on here, and lots of cats are on zobaline. It doesn't looks the dose is too high, to me, it just looks like Frosty has become a very bouncy kitty. Those high numbers are terrible to see, but the good news is, he is coming down to respectable numbers in the middle, that's why I think bouncy. Very dramatic! Are you testing for ketones?

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

The data from the lower doses is so long ago, it really doesn't count as to what is going on now. I don't think the zobaline has anything to do with it, or at least I haven't heard of zobaline doing anything crazy with numbers on here, and lots of cats are on zobaline. It doesn't looks the dose is too high, to me, it just looks like Frosty has become a very bouncy kitty. Those high numbers are terrible to see, but the good news is, he is coming down to respectable numbers in the middle, that's why I think bouncy. Very dramatic! Are you testing for ketones?

No, I have 3 cats so no idea who is peeing where and when. I wanted to get the blood test that someone recommended, but to be honest with you, the only one I found was super expensive and I’m running out of money here with all these strips and supplies. If anyone has suggestions for a reasonably priced blood test and could post a link, that would be appreciated. I spent a whole day searching last time and couldn’t find anything.

How do i interpret It? So if he has no ketones then he is a absorbing enough glucose for aerobic metabolism and we can keep the dose, right? And if he does than he needs more insulin? Am I correct?

 

[Stacy & Asia]

The meters aren't the pricey part, just like with glucose monitors, they get you on the strips. ADW occasioanally has the ketone meters free if you buy boxes of strips, but right now they don't. Ketostix are by far the cheapest option, but you'd have to stalk Frosty to the litterbox to grab some urine.

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/3400/nova-max-plus-glucose-ketone-meter-kit

If Frosty has ketones or is ketone prone, it is basically to keep DKA at bay. Asia has never had ketones (touch wood) but some cats are just more prone to them than others and it's always a good idea to grab a test every week or two if they aren't prone and more frequently if they are. If he has ketones, you want to make sure he is eating and drinking enough and that you don't skip insulin shots. If he shows ketones, you want to be vigilant to monitor as they can go from small to full blown DKA in less than 24 hours. What it could tell you regarding dose is that if he has ketones, you would want to feed him more and probably higher carb food so you could increase his insulin dose (but you wouldn't want to do that in the absence of ketones).

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

The meters aren't the pricey part, just like with glucose monitors, they get you on the strips. ADW occasioanally has the ketone meters free if you buy boxes of strips, but right now they don't. Ketostix are by far the cheapest option, but you'd have to stalk Frosty to the litterbox to grab some urine.

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/3400/nova-max-plus-glucose-ketone-meter-kit

If Frosty has ketones or is ketone prone, it is basically to keep DKA at bay. Asia has never had ketones (touch wood) but some cats are just more prone to them than others and it's always a good idea to grab a test every week or two if they aren't prone and more frequently if they are. If he has ketones, you want to make sure he is eating and drinking enough and that you don't skip insulin shots. If he shows ketones, you want to be vigilant to monitor as they can go from small to full blown DKA in less than 24 hours. What it could tell you regarding dose is that if he has ketones, you would want to feed him more and probably higher carb food so you could increase his insulin dose (but you wouldn't want to do that in the absence of ketones).

I was looking at precision xtra, but it’s out of stock on the Abbott website, where it’s $25, and it’s sold elsewhere for 40$+ for just the meter alone. The strips also vary from $20-$60 for each! I think it’s being discontinued or something, so I’m hesitant to buy it if I’m gonna be paying an arm and a leg from
Second party sellers.

Is there another blood ketone meter out there that’s reasonably priced? Like around $25-30$? There’s no way I will be chasing my cat around the litter box. I’m only home for 3 hours before I go to sleep and that’s not how I’m gonna be spending my free time lol

 

[Wendy&Neko]

A couple reasons for the higher numbers. First, inconsistent dosing. You started the increase to 1.75 units, went back to 1.5, then shot 1.75 again. All this will contribute to a case of New Dose Wonkiness as the depot tries to build. Second, he could still be bouncing from the blues. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear, and numbers can wobble around during that time. He could also be bouncing from fast drops. He had a heck of a drop in the early part of the PM cycle of the 25th. Are you still feeding just two meals a day? Spreading out the carbs can help level out the numbers.

The pee stalking is hard to do. It helps to get a general idea of when they like to pee. Then if possible, nab them and put them alone in a room with a litter box around that time. I was lucky that Neko was fairly regular about her pee habits, and I could just follow her into the room and stick a ketostix under her. Oddly enough, she liked to pee in the morning when we came back from rowing. Strange greeting.

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

A couple reasons for the higher numbers. First, inconsistent dosing. You started the increase to 1.75 units, went back to 1.5, then shot 1.75 again. All this will contribute to a case of New Dose Wonkiness as the depot tries to build

I don’t know though, because the difference between 1.5 and 1.75 is so low, and I only went back to 1.5 once, yet he’s been bouncing around all over the place for weeks

Second, he could still be bouncing from the blues. Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear, and numbers can wobble around during that time. He could also be bouncing from fast drops. He had a heck of a drop in the early part of the PM cycle of the 25th.

I haven’t seen a blue in days no matter when I spot check it’s like he’s just more and more resistant to the insulin

Are you still feeding just two meals a day? Spreading out the carbs can help level out the numbers.

Right now I can’t afford a timed meter for him. We also have 3 others pets I would have no way of controlling who is eating what.

The pee stalking is hard to do. It helps to get a general idea of when they like to pee. Then if possible, nab them and put them alone in a room with a litter box around that time. I was lucky that Neko was fairly regular about her pee habits, and I could just follow her into the room and stick a ketostix under her. Oddly enough, she liked to pee in the morning when we came back from rowing. Strange greeting.

I found a website I can get a blood ketone meter with purchase of 2 ketone strip packages. $40.. sigh. I need to win the lottery .

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I don’t know though, because the difference between 1.5 and 1.75 is so low, and I only went back to 1.5 once, yet he’s been bouncing around all over the place for weeks

My Neko would notice me tweaking the dose by even smaller amounts. Cats are sensitive to those small changes. At Frosty's size of dose, .25u is almost a 15% change in dose.

I haven’t seen a blue in days no matter when I spot check it’s like he’s just more and more resistant to the insulin

I see lots of blue on the 24th. In fact he was low 100's and almost made green. Remember, we primarily look at how low a dose is taking a cat to determine what to do about the dose. Over time, as his body gets used to normal numbers, those high numbers will go away. This is extremely normal for a fairly newly diagnosed cat. Some cats (like those named Neko), took even longer to get used to lower numbers. We don't know how long Frosty was diabetic before you adopted him. His body might be really used to those higher numbers and hence determined to hang onto them.

Bounces can take up to six cycle to resolve. Today should be cycle six, so hopefully you'll see some nicer numbers by tonight. As long as the New Dose Wonkiness/depot rebuilding isn't too much of a factor.

Right now I can’t afford a timed meter for him.

When you are home in the evening (I presume you are home then), you can space the meals out a bit and see if it makes a difference. The dive I noted happened in the PM cycle. Maybe half the food at preshot time, then a couple meals an hour or two later. Might be at least worth an experiment to see if it helps. A lot of what we do with FD is experiment and try things, until we find what works for our cat.

 

[Ana & Frosty (GA)]

When you are home in the evening (I presume you are home then), you can space the meals out a bit and see if it makes a difference. The dive I noted happened in the PM cycle. Maybe half the food at preshot time, then a couple meals an hour or two later. Might be at least worth an experiment to see if it helps. A lot of what we do with FD is experiment and try things, until we find what works for our cat.

I’m gonna try this tonight. What automatic feeder are people using on here? Any particular brand? Frosty absolutely will break into it if it’s not very sturdy. He’s really crazy and aggressive when it comes to food.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

I use this one, it was the most recommended from the people here. I place tiny dishes in the wells (they can eat right out of the plastic, I just prefer not to have plastic food dishes) and add ice cube to the top of the food to keep it fresh as well as add water to it. There are more expensive ones that open with a microchip. I don't know how cat proof it is, I put freeze dried chicken in mine one and very clever civvie tried to break in to it (unsuccessfully) but it was such a problem that she kept trying to mess with it, that was the last time I put that food in there.

https://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-Eatw...eder/dp/B000GEWHNS/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20