3/26 Zener PMPS 108;+1 191;+2 152;+3 149;+4.5 158;+6 239

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Anne & Zener GA

Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
All quiet here this morning. Liz had an early class. Zener did his morning rounds despite the winds. :razz:
Yesterday's Condo
Today
3/26/12 Zener
AMPS 428, 2nd dose @ s1.5u, 1/3PP, 1/8 Zantac, 1/4 Ondansetron, 1.4oz 9%, 1/16t Miralax, 7 drops kidney liquid
+1.5 367, 0.65oz 8%
+3 276, 0.7oz 8%, negative ketones

Numbers are BLECH this morning, most likely a bounce from yesterday's 46. Dose shave was taken last night. And poo patrol had an easy time because there was a small deposit in the LB. :-D

Sending lots of positive and healing energy to all our of our LL family in need this day. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 3/26 Zener AMPS 428;+1.5 367;+3 276;+4.5 261

Morning Anne and Liz

What a night for you all and Zener!! One thing that pops out that is a huge concern is giving him HC and karo to get his numbers up to shoot:

PMBG 46, 0.3oz 11% & 1 drop karo, 2/3PP with 1/4 ondansetron, 1/8 Zantac, 1/16t miralax
+12.3 55, 0.3oz 11% & 1 drop karo, 1PP with 3mg Zobaline
PMPS 75, 1st cycle @s1.5u, 0.45oz 11% & 1 drop karo
Click to expand...

We know that skipping shots doesn't work for him and that you didn't want to shoot but propping up the numbers with karo or HC at/before PMPS is not something we want to have caregivers doing due to the possibility of overdosing.

The other night Jill posted this on Sienne's condo:

Jill and Alex said:
propping up the numbers to be able to shoot is not recommended and should not be a suggested method of treatment because generally speaking, feeding HC at shot time is counterproductive and really clouds the picture. reductions are often missed by doing this causing the possibility of kitty becoming over dose without realizing it. for this reason, it should only be used as a last resort. this particular method of propping up the preshot number is not necessarily contingent upon experience level or whether you have strips and HC on hand. if one has to feed HC in order to shoot one should seriously consider a slight dose reduction or stalling until you have a shootable preshot number.
Click to expand...

I know you did shave the dose so that's good. :-D Another scenario that is a little different than in the "Dealing with Low Preshots" but might have been better for Zener was to feed LC at the 46, retest in 15 minutes and if he was not above 50 at that point give him a little more LC. Once he was above 50 without a food influenced number (maybe an hour), you could have shot. I know also that stalling too long is not in the cards and I don't know if moving his shot time a little to give you some leeway to stall is possible given your schedules.

The takehome is that we just don't want to see kitties in an overdose situation by propping up numbers at or before PS with high carb food and/or karo. Those things are fine to use to manage the curve later after shot but not as a means to prop up the number to shoot.

I know you did what you thought was absolute best and playing Monday morning quarterback isn't fair ;-) ;-) But it's something for the future. You all test alot and stay on top of the numbers which is great; others don't......

Have a great day!!!!!
 
Re: 3/26 Zener AMPS 428;+1.5 367;+3 276;+4.5 261

Hi guys .. bummer on these numbers .. hoping zener keeps coming on down .. slow and easy! Have a great day!
 
Re: 3/26 Zener AMPS 428;+1.5 367;+3 276;+4.5 261

Thanks Marje! We really appreciate you clarifying the use of foods for dealing with low preshots. We had read Sienne's condo the other night and Jill's suggestions. But sometimes in the "moment" it is hard to remember everything! We sure don't want to skip shots as long as how we are managing is safe for Zener. Since Zener's regular food is MC, in hindsight we should have gone with that rather than adding the karo to make it high carb. I wonder if using all the HC we did can also add to his bouncing later in that cycle?

You are right that how long we can stall is not very flexible right now, but school will be out in May and we will have more flexibility then, especially if Zener likes this late nadir pattern or whatever it is. ;-)

We always have new things to learn and so appreciate the help. Thanks again! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 3/26 Zener AMPS 428;+1.5 367;+3 276;+4.5 261;+6 193

I know...it is hard in the moment to think it through especially when you are looking at a 46 and Zeners CH.

I just want to be sure we all understand the difference between last night and other nights you stalled. The other nights, you had a very shootable number above 50 but by stalling, the number continued to drop (because we dont feed while stalling) to where you couldn't shoot it so you were forced to skip. And you did the right thing in not feeding while stalling because he was above 50.

Of course, you also had the issue those nights of whether Zener was going to eat. But, for experienced caregivers like you two who very closely monitor him, it's always best to shoot any number above 50 ....even if it's dropping...and then get his food in him and test like you normally do. And all of that is assuming he's eating although we've been telling folks the kitty needs the insulin so we hate to do too much skipping unless shooting would be unsafe.

With his appy issues, I think we will need to brainstorm and see if there is a better option for you all. Thank you so much for taking my comments in the light they were intended...as teaching and not criticism.

Glad to see he is coming back down :-D have a great day!

Eta: IMHO I think if they are going to bounce, they will BUT I also think karo and HC might add to the intensity of the bounce. Again...that is just my opinion and not based on studies. I have noticed a big difference in the intensity (less) in Gracie's bounces since we quit using HC, gravy, and karo.
 
Re: 3/26 Zener AMPS 428;+1.5 367;+3 276;+4.5 261;+6 193

Thank you Marje, we are good now with the difference in last night's 46 and other nights where he had numbers above 50. And we are clear on what carb food to use if he is below 50 and we want to try the "stall and feed if in the 40s to shoot" technique again. By the looks of his cycle today, we may have another chance sooner than later. :lol: We look forward to the information and suggestions from the brainstorming session!

What are you using now with Gracie, since no longer using HC, gravy or karo? Just curious. We have tried HC with gravy with Zener, which he likes of course, but it seems to be more difficult to get him back down to lower carbs after using this food, so we are always looking for other options. We suspect it may be a little rich for his tummy too. He only has about 3 foods he will eat consistently, so we are somewhat limited.
 
Re: 3/26 Zener AMPS 428;+1.5 367;+3 276;+4.5 261;+6 193;+11

@Devon - Zener's reading his condo again and following your directions. It's another sliding sort of cycle. :cool:

Today
3/26/12 Zener
AMPS 428, 2nd dose @ s1.5u, 1/3PP, 1/8 Zantac, 1/4 Ondansetron, 1.4oz 9%, 1/16t Miralax, 7 drops kidney liquid
+1.5 367, 0.65oz 8%
+3 276, 0.7oz 8%, negative ketones
+4.5 261, 0.4oz 11%
+6 193, 0.5oz 11%
+7 0.45oz 11%
Left out between +7 and +10, 0.7oz 10-11%
+11 120, FDCK at poke

From red to blue so far today. Will see what sort of drama-rama we have tonight. :twisted:
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108

Well, what do you know...numbers dropping and he's decided not to eat much. ohmygod_smile

Today
3/26/12 Zener
AMPS 428, 2nd cycle @ s1.5u, 1/3PP, 1/8 Zantac, 1/4 Ondansetron, 1.4oz 9%, 1/16t Miralax, 7 drops kidney liquid
+1.5 367, 0.65oz 8%
+3 276, 0.7oz 8%, negative ketones
+4.5 261, 0.4oz 11%
+6 193, 0.5oz 11%
+7 0.45oz 11%
Left out between +7 and +10, 0.7oz 10-11%
+11 120, FDCK at poke
PMPS 108, 3rd cycle @s1.5u, 0.7oz 11%, 1/16t miralax, 1PP & 1/4 ondansetron, 1/8 zantac, 1PP & 3mg zobaline

After chasing him around and offering food in many shapes and forms, we gave him a little appy stimulant. He does not act nauseated, just like he is full and doesn't want to eat. We probably shouldn't have fed him between +7 and +10 but were afraid he would be dropping. Will monitor closely as the cycle progresses.
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108

Zener eat your fuds, everything else is looking great so just eat your fuds ok.

I was worried about Vyktors food intake yesterday - he went 12 hours without eating (and his shot was about in the middle of that) :shock: but I have added up what he'd eaten by the end of the day and he has eaten ok. I don't suppose there's any chance that Zener is the same, just not keen sometimes but will make up for it later?
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108

Oh Zener, you need to eat your fuds and not worry everybody. Sid was doing that this weekend. Not too excited about eating and I actually took the food to him on the couch. BUT, he is better last night and today (I realized I was feeding him kitten food instead of regular cat food and he really liked that).

Gosh it is too bad he will only eat 3 kinds of food when he feels like eating. I hope the appy stimulant kicks in. You both do such a great job of monitoring him and caring for him - it is awesome.
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108

Hi Anne and Liz - good luck with Zener's cycle tonight! It must be so stressful when numbers go down, and so does the wanting to eat... It is hard sometimes to know what is the better option to feed when you are in a low PS situation. Been here with Mannie. I have learned, as it sounds like you have, what you can feed to bump up the numbers when you need to. It's tough when you have a shoot schedule that must be maintained. mine was that way for along time - I had such a narrow window to work with - never could stall. It was either skip or shoot.... Well, hope Zener has a great cycle tonight, and doesn't keep you up too late. you really do do a good job of monitoring and taking care of Zener. Awesome stuff!
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108;+1 191;+2 152

The appy stimulant is doing it's thing and he's eating enough now. We sure don't like to use it, but when we do use the stimulant we use it in combination with an anti-nausea med (ondansetron) as advised by Karrie several months ago. His appy waxes and wanes and we try not to worry too much as his weight is now stable, and he is even gaining a little bit. But if his numbers are lowish, we especially need to make sure he is eating enough for it to be safe to give him his insulin.

PMPS 108, 3rd cycle @s1.5u, 0.7oz 11%, 1/16t miralax, 1PP & 1/4 ondansetron, 1/8 zantac, 1PP & 3mg zobaline, 1/8 cypro
+1 191, 0.7oz 11%
~2 152, 1.3oz 9%
ETA
+3 149, 0.85oz 9%

@Serryn - he is not keen sometimes and eats better at other times. It took us quite a long time to transition him from dry to wet food. I had my share of hand feeding meals before we were on Lantus. Then, after our switch to Lantus and a few months after diagnosis, he wouldn't eat right after we gave him his shot and his numbers dropped like a rock. We had to syring feed HC and karo to get his numbers in a safe range. If that wasn't enough to cause PTSD (for the beans), he had some serious motility issues in January and stopped eating all together after an episode of vomiting. We had to syringe feed him for a week and he was on a combination of anti-nausea and motility drugs which finally got him back eating on his own. It was very stressful and we were afraid we would lose him. So, we may panic a little when he won't eat because of his poor appy history. And you are so right, his numbers look pretty darn good despite bean panic. :shock:

@Lydia - thank you for your kind words. :-D The appy stimulant is doing what it's supposed to and his numbers are in safe ranges.

@Michelle & Mannie - it's always something! Thanks for your kind words and support. It certainly is a learning process. ;-)
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108;+1 191;+2 152;+3 149

Very nice!!!

For some reason, on lantus, Gracie would "accumulate" carbs....we'd give them and give them and give more and finally she would respond. She's a different cat on lev. We were able to drop all the gravy and then the karo unless she gives us a 20 number. So we were just using WN trout and salmon (8%) and Pet Guard SavorynSeafood (10%). Then I decided Didn't want her to have all that fish so I tried WN Core checked liver turkey (8%) and it works great even for low numbers. We sometimes mix it to get her to surf....mostly 4% with a tiny dab of 8%.
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108;+1 191;+2 152;+3 149;+4.5 158

Hi ladies & Zener, thanks for thinking of us with our dental today!! So happy it's over! I know I learned a lot in your condo today. ;-) Eat your fuds, Z-man, that's a good boy!
 
Re: 3/26 Zener PMPS 108;+1 191;+2 152;+3 149;+4.5 158

Looks like a blue surf tonight. Zener is eating quite well because of the appy stimulant. When we use the cypro, we are using a very small amount (~1/8 of a tablet, much less than typically prescribed). Shortly after his +2, he had a big burp and seems to be feeling much better. :-D
PMPS 108, 3rd cycle @s1.5u, 0.7oz 11%, 1/16t miralax, 1PP & 1/4 ondansetron, 1/8 zantac, 1PP & 3mg zobaline, 1/8 cypro
+1 191, 0.7oz 11%
~2 152, 1.3oz 9%
+3 149, 0.85oz 9%
+4.5 158, 0.85oz 8%

@Marje - thanks for the fuds info. We don't see a very fast reaction with increasing carbs with Zener and it does seem like it takes a while and then BOOM, he goes up on the express elevator the penthouse and stays. We have pretty much dropped the gravy fuds with Zener too and have used a mix of 11% with 5% to get to 8-10%. So, we have a range from 5% to 11% to manipulate. He rarely eats the 5% alone but we would love to have him eating that all the time! We also started adding a drop of karo to the 11% rather than using the 17-18% gravy fuds and think that has helped his tummy. We'd sure like to get him on WN or some of the other better quality fuds, but are grateful that we can get him to eat wet food at all! ;-)

ETA
@Melissa & Bailey - we are so glad to read Bailey is doing so well. I bet that one lone toofie is very polished and pretty! We learned a lot in our condo today too, isn't LL fabulous?

The mighty Z can sometimes wobble around and then start to drop more at mid-cycle into a slide, so I will go for a mid-cycle check, then bean dreamland. Ni ni LL! I-)
 
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