max&emmasmommie
Member Since 2012
Hi! Max is doing well. What a relief to not worry about ketones for a few hours, at least.
3/26/12 Max amps 517 (Why? Driving' me nuts!)
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PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/26/12 Max amps 393
Hi guys .. glad to hear max is doing well! I hope he decides to head down from the pink floor for you .. have a great day!
Hi guys .. glad to hear max is doing well! I hope he decides to head down from the pink floor for you .. have a great day!
max&emmasmommie
Member Since 2012
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
Hi Everyone, Dale here. Max still acts normal, eats well, poops, pees, etc. He even sleeps with the sitter. He had subQs today. Maybe that can mess with the insulin? He's at 578 tonight after starting the day at 300 something. His last dose of antibiotic was supposed to be march 28 -Wed -morning, but one dose was wasted in food he wouldn't eat before I left on my trip. Should the sitter open a new bottle wednesday morning, if he tests high tomorrow morning? Would any of you continue the antibiotic to see if the infection is causing the high numbers? The vet tech sold the sitter a new bottle today. I'm wondering if We should keep giving the new bottle of antibiotic until its gone to see if it's a really stubborn infection that is causing high numbers - to rule that out. BUT --- My understanding is that you should not give extra antibiotic because that can cause too much disruption in the system.
If its not an infection, I think I should drop to 1 unit or switch to Levemir in April.
Can I be more sure that he's on a dose too high for his needs now that he keeps having these 200 point swings? I'm losing my
mind here!
Hi Everyone, Dale here. Max still acts normal, eats well, poops, pees, etc. He even sleeps with the sitter. He had subQs today. Maybe that can mess with the insulin? He's at 578 tonight after starting the day at 300 something. His last dose of antibiotic was supposed to be march 28 -Wed -morning, but one dose was wasted in food he wouldn't eat before I left on my trip. Should the sitter open a new bottle wednesday morning, if he tests high tomorrow morning? Would any of you continue the antibiotic to see if the infection is causing the high numbers? The vet tech sold the sitter a new bottle today. I'm wondering if We should keep giving the new bottle of antibiotic until its gone to see if it's a really stubborn infection that is causing high numbers - to rule that out. BUT --- My understanding is that you should not give extra antibiotic because that can cause too much disruption in the system.
If its not an infection, I think I should drop to 1 unit or switch to Levemir in April.
Can I be more sure that he's on a dose too high for his needs now that he keeps having these 200 point swings? I'm losing my
mind here!
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
Dale
Boy Insure wish your pet sitter could get in a midcycle test so we could see what he's doing at this dose. Subqs often will result in the BG decreasing. I don't think any of us would be comfortable telling you what to do about the AB. Can the pet sitter call your vet on that ?
The thing I am wondering is if he's coming down lower than we think during the midcycle and then bouncing back up. It's impossible to know without those tests to see where he is. I know that we might not have any choice until you get back. Hopefully she is able to keep getting some ketone tests when he's at these high numbers.
Hope your trip is going well.
Dale
Boy Insure wish your pet sitter could get in a midcycle test so we could see what he's doing at this dose. Subqs often will result in the BG decreasing. I don't think any of us would be comfortable telling you what to do about the AB. Can the pet sitter call your vet on that ?
The thing I am wondering is if he's coming down lower than we think during the midcycle and then bouncing back up. It's impossible to know without those tests to see where he is. I know that we might not have any choice until you get back. Hopefully she is able to keep getting some ketone tests when he's at these high numbers.
Hope your trip is going well.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
an example of what marjorie is talking about.
a week ago punkin was 479 at amps. 4 hours later he was 45. at pmps he was 353.
if i didn't have the +4 check, i'd have assumed he was high the entire time. in fact, he needed carbs to bring him up at am+4.
we know you must be worried about the high numbers you're seeing. it's the numbers that we aren't seeing that will tell us the story, however.
i think of the spreadsheet like a jigsaw puzzle. the preshot numbers are like the edge pieces. they give us the frame. but without the midcycle numbers here and there, we have no real idea of what the picture looks like. perhaps if your petsitter understands how important it is in telling us what's happening, she can get one mid-cycle number with each cycle. it doesn't need to be the same time every day, any of it helps give important information.
hope you can enjoy your trip without worrying too much about max!
an example of what marjorie is talking about.
a week ago punkin was 479 at amps. 4 hours later he was 45. at pmps he was 353.
if i didn't have the +4 check, i'd have assumed he was high the entire time. in fact, he needed carbs to bring him up at am+4.
we know you must be worried about the high numbers you're seeing. it's the numbers that we aren't seeing that will tell us the story, however.
i think of the spreadsheet like a jigsaw puzzle. the preshot numbers are like the edge pieces. they give us the frame. but without the midcycle numbers here and there, we have no real idea of what the picture looks like. perhaps if your petsitter understands how important it is in telling us what's happening, she can get one mid-cycle number with each cycle. it doesn't need to be the same time every day, any of it helps give important information.
hope you can enjoy your trip without worrying too much about max!
max&emmasmommie
Member Since 2012
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
At +6 the BG was 512
At +6 the BG was 512
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
The other possibility is that with the dose reduction, Max isn't getting enough insulin. Without spot checks, there's no way to know if he's dropping low and bouncing or if his numbers are high and flat.
The other possibility is that with the dose reduction, Max isn't getting enough insulin. Without spot checks, there's no way to know if he's dropping low and bouncing or if his numbers are high and flat.
max&emmasmommie
Member Since 2012
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
Hi All, I wish I understood this somogyi effect better. Does anyone know if the bgs will level out eventually even if the dose is never reduced to 1 unit. Let's assume that the cat needed those 2 or 3 units from the beginning. It seems that, in theory, the sudden introduction of 2 units of artificial insulin could create a bounce even in a cat that needed 2 units. What a terrible shame I didn't know better than to start him at 2 units! All this stress on his organs might have been avoided.
Hi All, I wish I understood this somogyi effect better. Does anyone know if the bgs will level out eventually even if the dose is never reduced to 1 unit. Let's assume that the cat needed those 2 or 3 units from the beginning. It seems that, in theory, the sudden introduction of 2 units of artificial insulin could create a bounce even in a cat that needed 2 units. What a terrible shame I didn't know better than to start him at 2 units! All this stress on his organs might have been avoided.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
i think the actual term "somogyi" is a misnomer. sienne did some research on it and it's never been verified in cats - it's from a study in the 1930's that never was reproduced.
what you're seeing may be rebound or bouncing. that's a different thing. it doesn't mean the dose is too much, it means the body has become accustomed to high numbers and the liver keeps shooting out hormones and sugars every time the BG drops to a new, lower range. max will get used to it, but it will likely mean tinkering with his dose to help him out.
2units is not an unusual dose to start at, especially if there is any dry food in the picture. a cat on low-carb canned food only often is started at .5u or 1.0u.
as soon as you are home and able to monitor max more, we'll get a better picture of what's going on in between those preshot numbers and be able to help you get to a more accurate dose.
are you enjoying your trip at all, or just worrying about max?
what you're seeing may be rebound or bouncing. that's a different thing. it doesn't mean the dose is too much, it means the body has become accustomed to high numbers and the liver keeps shooting out hormones and sugars every time the BG drops to a new, lower range. max will get used to it, but it will likely mean tinkering with his dose to help him out.
2units is not an unusual dose to start at, especially if there is any dry food in the picture. a cat on low-carb canned food only often is started at .5u or 1.0u.
as soon as you are home and able to monitor max more, we'll get a better picture of what's going on in between those preshot numbers and be able to help you get to a more accurate dose.
are you enjoying your trip at all, or just worrying about max?
mybuddybinks
Member Since 2010
stopping by to say hello!
celi & binks
celi & binks
carolynandlatte
Member Since 2009
Re: 3/26/12 Max pmps 576 Why? Driving' me nuts!
Well that sounds GREAT! He is even sleeping with the sitter!!!! :mrgreen: :thumbup
I think once you get home, you will figure things out. For now you have done the best you can. You can't do more than that! So do try and have some fun, ok? If Max could speak, I think he would order you to do that!!!!
Btw...subq's, depending on the amount and the cat, can actually LOWER bg's a little. I have never heard anyone report fluids causing BG's to go higher.
Thanks for checking in with us. As I said before, we worry too. :YMHUG:
max&emmasmommie said:
Well that sounds GREAT! He is even sleeping with the sitter!!!! :mrgreen: :thumbup
I think once you get home, you will figure things out. For now you have done the best you can. You can't do more than that! So do try and have some fun, ok? If Max could speak, I think he would order you to do that!!!!
Btw...subq's, depending on the amount and the cat, can actually LOWER bg's a little. I have never heard anyone report fluids causing BG's to go higher.
Thanks for checking in with us. As I said before, we worry too. :YMHUG:
max&emmasmommie
Member Since 2012
Hi Julie, and Everyone, thanks for being so caring, all of you.
The +7 was 598. So, the real number could be under 500 or over 700.
I'm trying to enjoy the trip. When I see his numbers it brings me down, but this is family trip, and there is so much going on that I'm able to forget for 3 or 4 hours that Max is having this problem. The baby is trying to learn to walk and swim at the same time. It's pretty entertaining.
I was very naive and thought that once I started giving insulin Max would be normal again. He acts pretty normal. I should be thankful for that.
The +7 was 598. So, the real number could be under 500 or over 700.
I'm trying to enjoy the trip. When I see his numbers it brings me down, but this is family trip, and there is so much going on that I'm able to forget for 3 or 4 hours that Max is having this problem. The baby is trying to learn to walk and swim at the same time. It's pretty entertaining.
I was very naive and thought that once I started giving insulin Max would be normal again. He acts pretty normal. I should be thankful for that.
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