3/25 Hank AMPS- 81, +4- 62, +10:40- 74, PMPS- 77

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bettyandhank

bettyandhank

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viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10099 YESTERDAY

Ok, we continue on this new dose. Lord knows what he is really getting. I practiced with milk as suggested. It's the difference in a tiny drop and teenie-tiny drop, virtually. As menioned, I think my .25 have been closer to .01. I am just shooting for teensy less than that...closer to the -0- line, but the top part.

When you look at it this way, you wonder how this can do ANYTHING to them. But it's almost true even at the .50. Powerful stuff I guess.

Sure was concerned about this morning's number based on his +2 last night w/ a 20pt rise and wondering if I'd given a dry shot.


But, lo and behold he gave me a good number. I cannot find a pattern with him.... Can't find his nadir. he's gone up at cycle end, middle, & beginning.

I have yet to figure out how this Lantus works in my boy.. .. to understand his rythym and peaks.

Bue I am happy he is doing so well.


Happy Thursday!

B&H
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

Awesome! What a great number. I am so excited for you. Healing healthy number for the Hank boy!

Yes, this insulin is powerful stuff, even one drop makes a difference. Soon Hank won't even need that. Right now you are just supporting that pancreas as long as he will let you. This helps make an OTJ trial successful, taking it slowly. You might have been able to stop shooting the other day when the vet suggested it, but by supporting the pancreas gently like this there is a better success rate.

I'm doing a happy chair dance for Hank. You guys have come such a LONG way in a short time.
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

Hey CD-

Thank you SO much for the support and all that good advice yesterday.

Truth is, she doesn't really know..she just met him. And would have started him on 2U admittedly keeping him there for a couple weeks expecting to double it upon periodic in office curves. She gave some handouts, and there were some referncing more progressive thinking ie:Dr. Hopkins nutrition information, the obligate carnivore, etc.. she didn't push DM on me. But ultimately I think she is old school perhaps usiing general ideas for all the diabetes cats even her own.

I don't think it's anything I did, i just think Hank must have had some transient type situation. Thanks goodness! he was one sick boy when I first got on here. I had been lurking msotly, and saw the post of another mom who, like myself, was overwhelmed, scared with the diganosis, financially stressed not knowing how she could take it on, was trying to read and educate and figure it out. Meanwhile her cat got sicker in fornt of her in a very short time frame- SAME AS HANk. She took him back to the vet and he was covered in ketones (I hadn't even known what they were), too advanced, and she had to put him to sleep. All in a matter of a week. That was our same story and where we were heading. Hank was losing weight rapidly, had almost 0 appetite, sleeping it off for the most part. I had mistakenly thought due to the PD/PU subsding, that perhaps he was responding to diet change.

But we had no vet really, and the one we went (form the past) just ot get him on insulin- turned out to be disastrous as you know. No one really expalined the ins and outs the details to us. it was all unknown, I would do it so different now, and my questions would be clearer I think.

But NOBODy said, well maybe he has pancreatitis, we could check for that..or referenced any underlying cause. Just diet and insulin.

This vet said maybe he had pancreatitis, and it possibly being transient. It was only hypothesis..But I'd never even heard that word.

I don't want to get too excited. he's doing really good now, But I don't know why he got sick really, or why he's getting well. We understand there can be honeymoons. When I was claling around, one vet said even if they go in remission, it is almost always temporary. They see it as simply a chronic disease to manage.
I know feeding him the canned has helped, but he was already eating wellness canned before this, just not exclusively. I had them both on natural high quality food though, but have pulled the Innova dry from Hank. he STILL craves it..and smells it on his brother. he is a carb addict I am sure.
he's happy when I give his some Evo pieces now for crunch- which I do very minimally.
I so wished my other boy, Elvis would eat canned- I've TRIED, but he is simply not interested. he will go on starvation. He may lick like 2 bites once a week, that's it.
Don't know how I'll ever work this out to go out of town. Right now I let Elvis, who grazes, inot the garage to eat his Innova 50 times a day. hank is not a big eater, but is similar in that he takes a few bites periodically during the day. i freshen his up several times a day, and pull it couple hours before testing.
How will this work if I am away?

Anyway, it's all kind of still a mystery.

Technically, after seeing what you said yesterday and re-resdint the stickys, we didn't earn this decrease as we weren't in 'normal' for a full week ( i was confused about normal) NOR have we hit 50 that we know of- (too scary), but he was sort of signaling as his overall numbers keep dropping.
I guess we fudged a little. If I need to leave him here awhile, I am happy to, borrowing his giving us any wacky numbers we have to look at.
I don't think I could take the 31 you got.

Where do you think his low/peak might be? Can you ascertain anything looking at his cycle? I would try to spot check him today at the right time if I could figure it out.


:)
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

Don't worry too much about how you got to this point... we were a little flexible with the protocol and for Hank it worked. Sometimes that is what happens due to circumstances beyond our control. Hahaha! I can hear kitties everywhere laughing at that... as if we could control our kitties.

How about if you check Hank around +4 today and again around +7. Then again around +11. He seems to have a later nadir than some. With this little insulin I wouldn't worry too much about finding the exact time of nadir since he has been pretty steady and below 100. Most of his current numbers look like nadirs to some kitties. And the low point changes. Watch him and if he seems different in any way, you can test at that time, especially if he starts acting extra hungry. Often that is a sign of a lower BG.

Even though my kitty went to 30 while on 0.1unit... he showed no signs of anything except he was waiting by the food bowl. I tested and fed. Then that was his last day of insulin.

Not kidding... if you see anything under 50 at anytime in the cycle - it will be time to start Hank on his OTJ trial. So testing is a good thing.
I wish I knew the best time to catch it, but we are talking kitties here!

I'll keep checking on you today. Good luck!
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

Part of what can be confusing is that the nadir isn't a fixed point. It can change from one day to the next or even one cycle to the next. If you look at SSs that have a lot of data, you'll see how they move around. Some cats have a trend -- they may have an early or a late nadir, in general. While I know that Gabby's nadir is typically mid-cycle, I've had her hit a low at +1. Go figure! She's a cat!!

I think you may have meant that your vet gave you info from Elizabeth Hodgekins, DVM. Some of the information on her site is consistent with what we do here -- especially as it relates to a low carb diet. However, Hodgekins is a huge proponent of PZI, which in the form she discusses on her site, is not longer available.

Hank is doing great. He is also a testimonial to how every cat is different (ECID). He didn't (or for various reasons you couldn't) follow the tight regulation protocol as it is spelled out. Hopefully, you are able to take a few breaths now that life is returning to normal and figure out how this all came together.
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

Thanks ya'll. i don't wanna jump ahead too much and jinx though...it's only been a couple days.


I've looked at lots of spreadsheets lately and wondered why some of the other kitties aren't going OTJ.

I was trying to discern trends trying helping to udnerstand where we were. one that jumps out is Buddy (sommerbethel) Looked like Buddy had gone a very long stretch in really low blue & green numbers that would have warranted OTJ. Then suddenly, the colors change. now changing back.
I haven't read every side-note, but seems to me he was OTJ candidate then did an about face.

dawn/nova seems wouold be otj. Randi/max. Someene else I saw the other nght has been giving a drop bid for ages.
i kept looking for the trend- the magic number.

I also looked back at Big Mac again (THAT boo-boo!) and seems he was right at that 14 cycles of 'normal' in a somewhat similar situation to ours. a few days on .25 then to .01. Maybe overall numbers trended lower earlier than ours.

ok, other things in the air today have to tend to.


Ya'll are just the best ever. thanks for checking in on us.

May Hankie keep rocking and rolling toward the finish line (how do I whisper and shout at the same time)

will chek in later

B&H
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

I remember doing these crazy data point charts everyday, back before we had spreadsheets, looking for the nadir, trying to figure my boy out, each day I'd tape the new graph to the last one -- it became this 20' roll. I'd roll it out and study it -- one day I walked over it upside down and thought -- now that's a nice curve.

My dad's name is Hank so I love seeing your condo. Congratulations on a job well done.
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

Thanks for visiting us. i am fairly new so still figuring out and 'meeting' everyone. Apparently you are one of the guru 'old timers'. I've run across some of your posts recenlty and think you give sage advice. Most recently w/ Tugger.
I have no idea how ya'll figure this all out. if not for my expert supporters, i'd have been lost.

BTW, Hank TOLD me his name. I got him at the shelter 10+ years ago after losing my long-time only child Cosmo. We'd been together over 18 years!
So I had a list of names I liked, and was waiting to know his personality more to see which on the 'short list' suited him best. He went nameless longer than anticipated. One night I looked at him and said "WHO ARE YOU???????' ......... I got HANK! literally it was palpable.
I'm thinking, 'but it's not on the list'!! But that is WHO HE WAS and when I asked, there it was.

aka: hankie-liscious
(my civvie is Elvis)


Thanks for visiting us, please come back by again!
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81

It's great that you are looking at other kitties' spreadsheets. Don't forget to glance at their doses, that helps answer some of your questions.
For example: Nova/Dawn. I'm sure Dawn would be thrilled to be on OTJ trial today, but her current dose is 1 unit. Nova isn't quite ready to go from that to zero. :-D She's workin' hard on it though, right Dawn?
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81, +4- 62

+4- 62!


he is not liking the spot checks. Tried to run under the armoire. squirmed the whole time. LOVES the treat. That part's cool!
 
Re: 3/25 Hank AMPS- 81, +4- 62

Hank is looking awesome.

CD - I justed have to say thank you too. Your help with Hank these last few days has been so clear and detailed that I have learmed so much from it. I am close to the same place as betty and hank, though my girl does not toss those low numbers at me anymore on the reduced dose. Getting to the point of shooting drops or going to nothing can be confusing and I wanted to say thanks for making it more clear.
 
CD and BigMac said:
For example: Nova/Dawn. I'm sure Dawn would be thrilled to be on OTJ trial today, but her current dose is 1 unit. Nova isn't quite ready to go from that to zero. :-D She's workin' hard on it though, right Dawn?
Click to expand...

Nova is a ways off yet.. but every kitty has their own pace.. Nova's doing really good though.. I'm very proud of her..

Really nice to see Hanks progress.. and great that you are still trying to soak up as much as you can Betty.. he's very lucky to have a mom that loves and supports him so much.

Keep it up Hank!
 
=10:40- 74

PMPS- 77. (+11:45)


i did mention we are using a spare meter (same/make model) since Monday PM. My house ate the other one. But just sayin' in case it matters.

Same ol' tonite...who KNOWS what he is really getting on this teensie weensy drip-drop. We hope something. This time when I pulled it out, there was still a teeninsie spec at end when I squeezed, unlike last night when it was dry, so at least SOME was in there. I could not get rid of the plunger bubble, it hung on for dear life, so add that to the mix and lord knows what the dose really is. SOMETHING- please! He's a big boy.


Melanie I agree, CD has been a lifesaver guru...I needed the idiot verison of how to do this. They give us a sick cat and insulin, but no road map after that. BTW, Smokey's numbers look GREAT! whaddya mean he's not throwin low ones out there...they are beautiful! It looks like everything is working wonderfully. We're just newly there...saw pink just over a week ago. ...you've been in low numbers longer. Our babies seem to be on a good path..I'll keep an eye out for ya'll too.

This mini dosing is nuts..seriously, how can you really know? add a bubble and forget it. Is it a drop or placebo. Whatever, they are both doing good!
 
I think Hank has read the textbook on how to handle this last dose. Perfect numbers today and a nice easy 77 for PMPS.
You and Hank are working this just right. Look how beautiful your SS looks these past few days!

After these past two cycles, Hank's numbers are probably not affected by the earlier dose and he is running off just this last drop. His storage shed or depot is very small and it is no problem because the pancreas is doing most of the work, with just a little assistance from the insulin. Soon the pancreas will be ready to go it alone.
We'll be watching for the signal. Either a week of normal numbers or a BG of 50 or below at any time.


Thank you Melanie for the kind words... blush, blush. I am so glad you were helped too, that made my day! :-D
 
You're hleping LOTS of us. You are good people Miss CD.

I just looked at Kathy's SS ..they've been low numbers for some time, OTj HAS to be just around the corner. But i see that it can always do an about face, ...so i need to just keep on and not jinx. I am going to almost more scared to NOT give him the inuslin now than I was TO give it to him.

he also needs to have this dental work done,w hich got back-burnered tending to this more crucial issue. I know it can have negative effects on his overall health, not just the diabetes, but also noticed someone on the board (can't recall who) who's cat that was in remission ended up back on insulin after a dental. I don't have the $$ to do it right now anyway, but it's on the horizon & as he potentially eases off of this crucial period, I have to start thinking about it. I SO don't want to upset things and his great progress. Did I mention they gave an estimate of over $900..that's INSANE. 1 tooth extraction and a cleaning.
The surgery itself and having him under anytime, but especially now at such a sensitive time, scares the life out of me. But he has a terrible FORl that needs to be extracted, aside from needing a serious cleaning (he's never had one).

Anywho, thanks again for keeping an eye out for us CD. I would not know what to do without you.

Our boy is doing great again today...'knocking on wood'!!
 
bettyandhank said:
Did I mention they gave an estimate of over $900..that's INSANE. 1 tooth extraction and a cleaning.
Click to expand...

Nova had a cleaning and 1 extraction and it was $1300.. (they had to do a ton of gum surgery, like almost an hours worth, that 1 tooth caused all sorts of issues.. this isn't normal don't worry!!! :) )..

Comparably.. one of my other cats had **8** teeth removed AND a piece of his jaw.. and it was "only" $1500.. and a lot of that was for special medications and all the extra staff he had (extremely high risk surgery for that guy)..

At the same time.. my other cat... was going to have surgery to have 2 extra teeth removed (a good fall on his head.. not my doing!!.. knocked them out the day before surgery).. and it was only going to be $500..

Every cat sure is different :).
 
Yeah, the teeth stuff is worrisome for lots of diabetic kitties. At least I hope Hank can save you some $$$ by not needing so many testing strips and insulin in the near future. :lol:

Ouch, Dawn that is serious hit to your pocketbook due to all your kitty teethies!
 
CD and BigMac said:
Ouch, Dawn that is serious hit to your pocketbook due to all your kitty teethies!
Click to expand...

Those are spread out over time thank goodness.. but my cats aren't cheap I'll say that.. I currently have a job I can barely stand (I want to say can't stand..but obviously since I'm doing it, I can stand it).. just so I can afford all the care they need. Full check up for Jerry in a few weeks.. which is 4 figures.. my cats are lucky they are cute! :).
 
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