3/24 Wally PMPS +6=68, AMPS=107,+2=126,+5.5=36/45,+6=49 ,+6.5=53,+8=68,+10=165,PMPS=298

Par for the course, when I've upped him to 2 units, he crashes. Just tested him and he was 36! Immediately took another reading and it was 45. Only sign that he was so low is that he was begging for food. Fed him LC FF and will test again in 15 minutes to make sure he's coming up.
 
Par for the course, when I've upped him to 2 units, he crashes. Just tested him and he was 36! Immediately took another reading and it was 45. Only sign that he was so low is that he was begging for food. Fed him LC FF and will test again in 15 minutes to make sure he's coming up. And he had snacks during the morning, after breakfast, as well.

At +6 he's up to 49 on the Relion. Checked against the AT2 and he was 67. Fed more FF and will retest again in 20 minutes.

At +6.5=53 on Relion and stayed 67 on the AT2.
At +8=68 on Relion and 94 on AT2
At +10=165 on Relion
 
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Gita I just see your post now. I had to search to even find it.

His major low buried in all the numbers in your title.

Use a 911 prefix next time ok?

do you have questions about how much to give him tonight? Are you planning on a reduction? Change your title and put a question mark and say “major hypo earlier need dosing advice”.

@tiffmaxee @Bandit's Mom @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie
 
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Margaret (and Pearl) said:
@thebigfuzz @JaxBenji in case either of you also have advice!
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Thanks Margaret for looking out - I think Gita has this down (Wally loves to do this o_O) but it never hurts to ask :bighug: With that 36, it's a reduction down to 1.75u for long-term (or short-term for that matter) diabetics. Also, it's my understanding that "hypo" or "hypoglycemic" is reserved for when a kitty is showing symptoms - otherwise, it's considered a low number. Non-diabetic kitties can run low (Simba's OTJ trial is my favorite :eek:).
 
JaxBenji said:
Thanks Margaret for looking out - I think Gita has this down (Wally loves to do this o_O) but it never hurts to ask :bighug: With that 36, it's a reduction down to 1.75u for long-term (or short-term for that matter) diabetics. Also, it's my understanding that "hypo" or "hypoglycemic" is reserved for when a kitty is showing symptoms - otherwise, it's considered a low number. Non-diabetic kitties can run low (Simba's OTJ trial is my favorite :eek:).
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So, some background I should have included...Gita posted on the FD FB page when no one saw her post earlier. She is or was confused about the "hypo" term and so believed that going to 36 meant to feed LC food and not HC food, since Wally was not symptomatic of a hypo.

So I think some help or clarification is needed on terminology and understanding that people can use the term "hypo" differently, and that sometimes they mean different things if the person is not being careful. So, there is a hypo in terms of symptoms and that is truly an emergency etc and there is the "low" number some people call "hypo", but that both need higher carb food, NOT ONLY the emergency one.

Also on the FB group she said she was considering NOT reducing, so I wanted to help give her some help on confirmation here that the reduction is needed.

I don't know much but am hoping someone on here can help her clarify these things. I hesitate always to say much being a newbie, but this seemed to warrant some assistance.
 
Hi everyone. I am reducing his dose back down to 1.75 units tonight. He just tested PMPS at 298 so he hasn't bounced as much as I'd thought, but, with Wally, who knows what the next couple of hours will bring? I'll definitely take a +2 reading and probably a +6 tonight.

In some ways I'm glad that the discussion on the FB group took place because it might help to clarify exactly what we should consider a hypo vs a low number (without any hypo symptoms) as I did and fed him accordingly.

Thanks.
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Gita I just see your post now. I had to search to even find it.

His major low buried in all the numbers in your title.

Use a 911 prefix next time ok?

do you have questions about how much to give him tonight? Are you planning on a reduction? Change your title and put a question mark and say “major hypo earlier need dosing advice”.

@tiffmaxee @Bandit's Mom @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie
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I'm reducing his dose to 1.75 units. I didn't use the 911 prefix since I didn't think it warranted that, but next time I will. Hopefully there won't be a next time ;)
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
some background I should have included
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Indeed helpful. IDK how discussions in Facebook vs FDMB are handled so I can't comment there.

As for using 911 - here are the board guidelines - I've seen people use it to get help for higher numbers but just thought I'd post this for reference - I personally used the ? in the past and changed my title. I wasn't on the board this AM so I don't know if Gita changed her title or not (e.g., LOW NUMBERS, NEED HELP).
  • 911: The 911 prefix in the subject line should only be used for emergencies such as symptomatic hypos, very low numbers (below 30 on a human meter), and/or very sick cats potentially needing ER care. Once someone has responded to the 911 and you have received help, please remove it from the subject line.

@Ginger Cat - I know you've been at this dance awhile but perhaps print off the Low Number Sticky ? IMHO, it has all the info in it for handling today. I have it printed off with Jax's supplies (or if you can't print can you save a PDF to a computer?). It lists the top symptoms to be concerned about (ECID, know they cat of course) and lists out how to get kitty to higher numbers. If you are experiencing a symptomatic hypo, then you should try to get kitty to a vet ASAP - the How to Treat HYPOs sticky actually walks through different "levels" if you will (that's my term, not FDMB :joyful:) - as always, when in doubt, contact your vet.

As for the reduction, I was just pulling from the Dosing Method sticky (emphasis is mine)-
  • If kitty drops below 40 (long term diabetic) or 50 (newly diagnosed diabetic) reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit.
I think that exhausts my knowledge/links repertoire :p
 
We use the word "hypo" when there are symptoms....otherwise it's just a "low number" BUT if the cat is below 50 (newly diagnosed <1 year), it still means it's your "time to act"... you intervene with HC food to bring them up.

For long term diabetics (diagnosed >1 year) below 40 is your "time to act" by giving something HC to get them back up to a safer number.

Once you have enough data on your cat and truly understand how your insulin works and how your cat responds to food and insulin, there are times when you can use a little LC or MC instead of HC, but again, that's only once you truly understand your cat, how they react, how your insulin works in your cat, where they are in their cycle, etc. etc.

It's never going to be wrong to feed HC to a cat under 50 (or 40) but it may not always be necessary either...but it's always better to feed the HC unless you totally understand all the variables. The most important thing you can learn is to "Know Thy Cat". How your cat responds can be vastly different from somebody else's cat.
 
I agree with Chris, I've often found over time, it sure does depend on where they are at in the cycle, along with getting a feel for how your own cat responds to carbs and what their typical cycles look like. I've seen people use karo in the 50s and that works for them. If I gave syrup, Mav would fly to the moon :p. Interestingly enough, Wally's +2s the last couple of cycles would have suggested to most people that there wasn't going to be any action ( +2s were higher) yet look at the shenanigans. Not typical.

Gita, you've been here a while, have you ever tried feeding the curve? It might help to flatten him out a little. You may want to try using some higher LC carb earlier in the cycle, and see what that does. Just a suggestion.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-10-tashie-pmps-high-questions.101989/#post-1087990
 
Christie & Maverick said:
I agree with Chris, I've often found over time, it sure does depend on where they are at in the cycle, along with getting a feel for how your own cat responds to carbs and what their typical cycles look like. I've seen people use karo in the 50s and that works for them. If I gave syrup, Mav would fly to the moon :p. Interestingly enough, Wally's +2s the last couple of cycles would have suggested to most people that there wasn't going to be any action ( +2s were higher) yet look at the shenanigans. Not typical.

Gita, you've been here a while, have you ever tried feeding the curve? It might help to flatten him out a little. You may want to try using some higher LC carb earlier in the cycle, and see what that does. Just a suggestion.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/8-10-tashie-pmps-high-questions.101989/#post-1087990
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I do feed him throughout the day and was considering getting some MC food to have on hand because when I do give him HC he spikes like crazy. He just tested at 408 PMPS +2 so I think he'll be okay overnight but I'll check him again mid-cycle to make sure.
 
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Use a 911 prefix next time ok?
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You've been at this long enough Gita, I don't think you need 911 anymore. We tend to use that for medical emergencies.
Margaret (and Pearl) said:
So I think some help or clarification is needed on terminology and understanding that people can use the term "hypo" differently, and that sometimes they may mean different things if the person is not being careful. So, there is a hypo in terms of symptoms and that is truly an emergency etc and there is the "low" number some people call "hypo", but that both need higher carb food, NOT ONLY the emergency one.
Click to expand...
Hypo to us usually means showing hypo symptoms. Otherwise it's low numbers. Anything under 50 should get higher carb food, regardless of how long they've been a diabetic. Note I said higher, not necessarily high - ECID. You don't want them hanging out in the 40's. If under 40, then even higher carb or a drop of karo is what I used. Later in the cycle, when insulin is wearing off after nadir, you might need less carbs. It's important to know how carb sensitive your cat is - each one is different - and respond appropriately.

Feeding the curve is more than just feeding throughout the day. It might be you have to slow him down early in the cycle with a bit higher carbs, to try to prevent these deep dives, so he can stay at a dose longer.
 
I'm sorry if I was too harsh on you yesterday on FB. It wasn't my intention. My only concern was Wally and his safety :bighug::bighug:
 
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