3/24 Doodles AMPS 346 +4 424+10 349 (.25R) PMPS 323 +2 413 +5 290!!

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Doodles & Karen

Doodles & Karen

Member Since 2015
Doodles 3/23 I feel like we made some headway by giving R @ +10 yesterday since it managed to keep him out of Red last night and also gave a dosecrease to 5units. This Lasix is really nasty stuff and he gets double the amount in the morning of it so today we went with .5U of R and hope it minimizes the hours spent in the redzone. Yesterday he was pretty sleepy the majority of the day, appy was OK and a normal LB deposit. Guess that's all we can ask from my boy right now.

Sending vines and prayers to all the kitites and beans!
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Last night looked pretty darn good at this point! :)
Let's see what he does today. I'm especially interested in onset, nadir, and duration of the R.
Work it, Doodles!
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He made it easy for me to shoot .5 of R this morning. It makes sense that he may need double the amount of R in the morning since he gets double the amount of Lasix. I was super happy to keep him out of red last night!
 
Yep, it's yukky, but may have been worse without the R. We also might also be fighting a little little NDW... which is another reason why I didn't hesitate to suggest the 0.5u R dose for this morning.

Worst case scenario is 0.5u R isn't enough to combat the effects of the lasix dose in the morning, but the verdict is still out on that one.

We'll find what works...
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Worst case scenario is 0.5u R isn't enough to combat the effects of the lasix dose in the morning, but the verdict is still out on that one.
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He goes for a renal panel blood test tomorrow morning to see what effect these meds are having on his body. Not sure if/what the alternative might be but I don't see the cardiologist again until April 6th. Another reason why it's cycle at a time. Jumping far ahead to tomorrow since we'll be off to the vet @ +3 wonder if we still shoot R? Don't have to answer that now but something to think about as the day plays on.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
He goes for a renal panel blood test tomorrow morning to see what effect these meds are having on his body. Not sure if/what the alternative might be but I don't see the cardiologist again until April 6th. Another reason why it's cycle at a time.
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It's also a cycle at a time with R.
Doodles & Karen said:
Jumping far ahead to tomorrow since we'll be off to the vet @ +3 wonder if we still shoot R? Don't have to answer that now but something to think about as the day plays on.
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Let's see how things go. Tomorrow morning might be an ideal time to skip R not only because of your vet appointment, but because it may be a good time to step back to see where we're at.

While R may not be pulling the numbers down a whole lot, the simple use of R is disrupting the normal flow of events in a good way, but the disruption may cause numbers to come down a little faster in subsequent cycles. What I'm tryig to say is tomorrow may be a perfect opportunity to observe what's going on without the R. Granted, there will be vet stress to figure in, but that's ok.

Hope that makes sense! :)
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Well with that +4 he's now eating his second meal so suspending the pokes for now. Will get a +8 along with another dose of belly meds. @Jill & Alex (GA) Should we plan on shooting R at +10 and the same dose?
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Just thought I'd toss in a few thoughts, too, FWIW before I head out to TX. I think it would be a great idea to see what the 0.5u would do today at +10 if he's above 300 especially since you ant going to use it tomorrow morning. Based on less lasix at night and that he held steady in pink (coming down a twitch), maybe with his 5u depot filling and the NDW hopefully waning a bit, you might see better numbers.

I was always careful about shooting R with NDW but it's a totally different situation here because of the influence of the Lasix.

Good luck tomorrow...paws crossed all is well and you get good results back from the IAA/acro tests.

:bighug:
 
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Marje and Gracie said:
I think it would be a great idea to see what the 0.5u would do tonight at +10 especially since you ant going to use it tomorrow morning.
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I was thinking of the .5 too @ +10. In fact I may not test him until +10 as pretty sure he'll be at 300 or more at that time. He's now on my bed with after a decent lunch ready to nap the rest of the day.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
@Jill & Alex (GA) Should we plan on shooting R at +10 and the same dose?
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I'd see how the rest of the day plays out before making a decision.
Marje and Gracie said:
I think it would be a great idea to see what the 0.5u would do today at +10 if he's above 300 especially since you ant going to use it tomorrow morning. Based on less lasix at night and that he held steady in pink (coming down a twitch), maybe with his 5u depot filling and the NDW hopefully waning a bit, you might see better numbers.
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FWIW, what's happening tomorrow shouldn't have any bearing on a plan for AM +10.

I really have mixed emotions about increasing the R dose @ +10... at this time (if something unusual happens even later today I may change my mind). The 0.25u R dose has Doodles hovering at a little less than a 50 point drop... which is pretty darn good. We're only looking for a 50 - 100 point drop tops from the R. There's no danger of creating a bounce from that drop. I like that!

On one hand, increasing to 0.5u R @ AM +10 might very well work out beautifully. On the other hand, we could be becoming greedy by increasing the R dose to 0.5 unit. Doubling the dose doesn't necessarily mean one will see a doubling in the points of the drop. It could easily backfire by dropping him in excess of 100 points and setting him up for a bounce.

I've always felt setting kitty up for a bounce when using R was much like shooting oneself in the foot. One may enjoy instant gratification because you can see a noticeable difference in BG numbers, BUT then you have to deal with the bounce that's sure to come... and it'll last for a few days. We know what that means in a case like Doodles... more time head-banging and more R to counteract the bounce. It just seems like a vicious circle to me, but not everyone agrees.

Personally, I prefer to take down numbers slowly and methodically when using R as a bolus. Dosing in this manner tends to flatten out kitty and I've always found a flat cat much easier to work with than a bouncy kitty.

In my mind... What does that mean for Doodles? At this point (with current numbers), we know we can get an acceptable drop with 0.25u @ AM+10. If Doodles were mine, I'd probably leave that alone for now and instead concentrate on gently pulling down the AM cycle, but that's just me. Once the AM cycle comes down, the R assisted PM cycle will likely fall into place.

That said, there's more than one way to get to the same destination when it comes to cats and diabetes! Truth be told, we have a cat who is stuck in reds and pinks because of meds. I honestly don't think there's any hypo danger tonight when dosing within reason... and increasing the R dose to 0.5u @ AM +10 is certainly within reason.

Any one have a crystal ball that works? :)


Just my thoughts...
all decisions are yours, Karen.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
all decisions are yours, Karen
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As much as I want to increase to .5 @ AM+10 certainly don't want to see a bounce by any means so I'll hold the trigger finger. Plus we did just increase although small to 5u of Lantus. Does it seem like the R lasts just about 4 hours and the onset of L starts about then?
 
Doodles & Karen said:
As much as I want to increase to .5 @ AM+10 certainly don't want to see a bounce by any means so I'll hold the trigger finger.
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I don't want to give you the wrong impression or lead you astray... I'd rather you have all the facts. Increasing the R dose at AM +10 could work out just fine. It could also drop him too much resulting in a bounce. Increasing is simply a gamble.

See what happens between now and AM +10, evaluate, and then make a decision.

Doodles & Karen said:
Does it seem like the R lasts just about 4 hours and the onset of L starts about then?
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Looks like it, but it's so hard to be sure when there's not a lot of movement. I haven't been able to arrive at any solid conclusions in that respect.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I'm not shooting R tomorrow morning but Saturday morning if he's still in the 300's I would like to try .75R at APMS.
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Let's see how things go between now and then. One day at a time, ok?
They might change Doodles' meds tomorrow. Who knows? :cool:
Doodles & Karen said:
Getting ahead of myself again but I'm a bit of a planner:bookworm:
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Oh boy! Can I ever relate! A long time ago my best friend told me she wanted to be with me in the event of a disaster because I'd be prepared and have everything all planned out! LOL! :rolleyes:

 
I'd get a +10 and see what direction he's going. It could be possible the NDW is fading away. If he's dropping anyway, I wouldn't want to add too big an R drop on top of that.

When Neko was sky high, I tried to figure out when she was going up and I really liked using R to prevent her going higher. Sometimes using R to prevent them going higher, instead of doing a drop, is a good goal.
 
Sometimes he dips at the end or at least use to so I'll stick with the .25. I don't want to stress his body out any more than it is. He doesn't look good...very lethargic but on my bed listening to rain forest music. Thanks for the input.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
I get concerned when appy is off and kitty is lethargic
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Lethargy and lack of appy are also side effects of Lasix. We started the metoclopramide for appy but may need something additional. Haven't checked for ketones, it was negative last week. It being a diuretic, he has been drinking excessively but peeing it out. At the moment I don't feel good about things with this but trying not to let my mind go there.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
but on my bed listening to rain forest music
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Should send him up here - we get that music au natural. ;)

I am quite surprised you are getting such a reaction to the Lasix. I was just taking a peak back at Pepper's SS - he started Lasix and Plavix on 5/21/13 and still kept his blues. Ignore the dose, he was an acro/IAA combo. I remember Nancy got his meds compounded.
 
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Doodles, Doodles, he's our man; if he can't do it, no cat can!
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Work it, boy!
 
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