3/22 Elizabeth +3 54,+3.5 64,+4 97,+5 103,+6 90, +10 147PMPS 141, +1 192, +2 137, +3 93, +3.5 131

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Vicki

Vicki

Member Since 2015
Yesterday:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...2-12-116-pmps-177-1-136-2-114-3-5-105.134927/
3/21 Elizabeth ALPHATRAK AMPS 204,+2 242,+4 74, +6 82,+7 102, +12 116, PMPS 177, +1 136, +2 114,+3.5 105 +10.5 140

Good morning! I have a very hungry and annoyed cat on my hands who isn't supposed to have her AMPT for almost an hour from now 9:55am. Liz's' shot was delayed twice yesterday, 1/2 hour am and pm, so her breakfast time is delayed.

I just did a +10.5 @ 8:40am and got 140. When can I do the AMPT if I want to move the shot time up a bit? Her PM shot was at 9:55pm.

And in preparation of what my question is going to be when it's time to give Liz her am shot - is 1u going to be appropriate with 140 at +10.5?

Sometimes it can take a few minutes to get advice here (understandably!), and then I have trouble making a decision on the great advice when I receive it, so I am getting prepared ahead of time this morning.

Thank you!!!


 
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Hello,
Liz's AMPS was 116 and I gave her 1u and breakfast. Advice please on when to test her?
 
Morning Vicki - :coffee::coffee::coffee:

Kitties on Lantus (and Levemir) sometimes do something called a double dip, where the numbers go down a bit at the end of the cycle, but not as low as the nadir or low point. Looks like that's what you saw this morning. Every time you shoot your lowest ever, we recommend a +1 and a +2.

As for shot times, you can move then back 15 minutes a cycle/shot, or do 1/2 hour once a day. Here's a post on Getting Back on Schedule.
 
Good morning, Wendy,
I read about Lantus and the double dip and that it was okay to shoot if the AMPS was higher than the nadir, so that's what I did. Also, I knew she was very hungry and would be eating which made me more comfortable with it.

Okay on the +1 and +2. I have pricked her ears so many times I have the heebie jeebies about it and am hoping I don't have to do it so many times today. I assume the +1 and +2 numbers will dictate that? At what point do you decide this is the cat's dose and all is well and go back to testing 4 times or less (is there ever a less?) per day?

My intention was to move her back 15 minutes this morning (thanks for the link which I will read), although by the time I gave her the shot it was 8 minutes.

Thank you!
 
The +2 test is usually a good test to get for a lot of cats, though I'm not sure it is for Liz. Typically if the +2 is about the same as the preshot, you'll have a normal Lantus cycle. If it's quite a bit lower, you'll have an active cycle which needs more testing. And if it's higher, it'll be a quiet cycle. However, Liz didn't follow that rule of thumb with either of her cycles yesterday. :rolleyes: I would normally have suggested just a +2 today, but besides being your lowest shot yet (and technically green cause you are using the AlphaTrak), she was going down into preshot so just want to see what her plans are. Once you've done this a while, you'll get enough data to get a better idea of when to test next, and are able to test less.
 
I have a question. What is my no shoot number with the AlphaTrak and Lantus, or where do I find that?
 
+2 79. Assume I should offer her some food, so doing that. Would appreciate any comments! Thank you!
 
+3 is 54 with AlphaTrak. Do I treat this as HYPO? She is acting okay....very worried, please help!
 
Feed some gravy from your high carb food, a couple of tsp, not too much, then test again in 20-30 minutes. This isn't a hypo unless Liz is showing hypo symptoms. It's a low numbers event. How is Liz acting?

And she's just earned a reduction down to .75U
 
Raise/steer the low numbers by feeding 1-2 teaspoons of gravy, waiting 20-30 minutes, and re-testing. Repeat until safely past nadir, and rising at least 3 times.
Gravy and karo wear off very quickly and Lantus lasts a long time so you want to vigilant.
 
She's acting okay. I, however, am not. I am very worried. I gave her more than 2 teaspoons of gravy - I squeezed every bit I could out of that small can and mixed a little honey (1/4 tsp) in with it, but she steered clear of the honey so didn't get much. I will keep testing. Thank you!
 
Deep breathe, you can do this! :bighug: I'll watch for your next test result. It takes 20-30 minutes (depending on the cat) for the carbs to go from the plate to the blood stream. You don't want to fill her up which is why we say just a couple of tsp of gravy. Keep track on her SS of how much high carb you feed - it may help in the future.
 
I am not even certain if this food I gave her is considered high carb, but it does have gravy and lists wheat gluten, potato starch, and corn starch as ingredients....it's Kroger brand LuvSom (previously called Aristocats), which she used to eat before her diagnosis.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
The +2 test is usually a good test to get for a lot of cats, though I'm not sure it is for Liz. Typically if the +2 is about the same as the preshot, you'll have a normal Lantus cycle. If it's quite a bit lower, you'll have an active cycle which needs more testing. And if it's higher, it'll be a quiet cycle. However, Liz didn't follow that rule of thumb with either of her cycles yesterday. :rolleyes: I would normally have suggested just a +2 today, but besides being your lowest shot yet (and technically green cause you are using the AlphaTrak), she was going down into preshot so just want to see what her plans are. Once you've done this a while, you'll get enough data to get a better idea of when to test next, and are able to test less.
Click to expand...
Max doesn't follow those rules either because he generally gets a good food spike or he just doesn't think rules are for him. Hence the nickname Mr. Unpredictable.! Elizabeth is doing great!!
 
Wheat gluten and potato starch are in high carb foods I've used. For future, you might want to stock up on one of the Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers - it's got a ton of gravy so it's easy to get it out. Just pop it open and press down the lid to squeeze out the gravy. Other options to honey (which you don't need just yet) are maple or pancake syrup or karo.
 
Congratulations on the reduction!!!

With that much HC, she may zoom up, but it's always better to be safe....When China had her first low number event, I'd been told I could use Karo, honey or syrup so I ran to the kitchen, dumped about a cup of maple syrup into a bowl and gave it to her (I was kind of shocked that she liked it!)

It was only later on that I learned it was supposed to be "a drop or two", not the whole bottle.....LOL

We all live and learn!!
 
Great job - she's coming up! :D Since you are using the AlphaTrak and our "take action" figure there is 68, I'd give her some more high carbs, about the same as what you did before, and test again in 30.
 
Whew! @ 3.5 it's 64. Now what? I am still shaking, and Liz and I are blood sisters because I stabbed myself with the lancet between the first prick (unsuccessful) and the second. Thank you for your words of encouragement. Please advise. I gave more gravy (with that tiny bit of honey thrown in)than I should have, and she licked it up in a heartbeat.
 
Check my post above. Looks like you did what you should have. You are a natural at this. :) Did you test yourself? ;)
 
Liz cannot believe her good fortune at having the gravy! :cat: I will test again at+4, which is 1/2 hour after she had the second offering of gravy (2 tsp)
No, I didn't test myself - too much of a wreck! I don't feel like a natural. I feel like an unnatural. :nailbiting:
 
Big sigh of relief on that 97. :) You can wait an hour now for the next test. Gravy/high carbs will wear off after a couple of hours so you want to make sure she's safe once it's worn off.
 
Okay on testing in an hour. If she wants to eat her normal diet of Hill's d/m wet is that okay?

I had read Shooting and Handling Low Numbers, but of course I didn't remember what to do, nor was I going to take the time to find it in my panic. Now I have it printed out. This article has human meter numbers, so I am going to go through and calculate and note the AlphaTrak numbers. Did I make a mistake giving her the regular 1u dose this morning with AMPS 116? That's why later this morning I was asking what the no shoot number is for AlphaTrak.
 
You did not make a mistake giving her the 1U dose - there was no way to know what Liz would do today. She has been seeing some nadirs close to 68, so I think she was hinting it would be soon. People here (with experience) will shoot at anything above 50 on a human meter or 68 on an AlphaTrak. And we usually work our way down as we build confidence and experience. I wouldn't expect you to shoot a 68 this early in the dance. That's why people will sometimes use the option to delay to see if kitty is rising or skip or reduced dose if they can't monitor.
 
+5 103. She hasn't eaten since 1/2 hour prior to the +4. She's just cat napping away. What are the recommendations?
 
You could get one more test, maybe an hour and if she's about the same or up, that's enough until PMPS.

One last thing, do something for yourself today. You did great on your first low numbers event. :) A number of us have chocolate in the hypo kit.
 
A number of us have chocolate in the hypo kit.
Or liquor.....LOL

Exactly what I was thinking, Chris!
 
It's been a couple of hours since she last ate high carb, right? Is she due any more of her regular food?
 
Yes, it was 2 -1/2 hours ago she had the second helping of gravy. She has been sleeping ever since. She can eat regular food anytime she wants, and she just got up and ate some right now.:)
 
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I think you can take it easy the rest of the cycle. If you want, you could get a +10 or a +11 as a heads up for tonight.
 
Hi Vicki,

Just wanted to say well done today! I know how scarey is is when they drop low. You are not the only one who becomes anxious! It is not knowing if they will respond that is scarey I think.........but they always do respond!!!:cat: Honey and high carbs work their magic every time.

What I do with my medium carb and high carb food is I write on the can with a marker pen how many carbs are in it eg 22 and then when I have to make a quick decision on what to do, I can see what can I need. It is hard to think straight when anxious and I find this helps. Any left over food, I freeze for later in ice cube tray and then put in a marked container saying number of carbs.

I am new to the forum as well although not new to diabetes; you will get wonderful advice and help here.:)
Bron
 
Hi Bron and tiffmaxee (from earlier) and everyone who has posted,
Thank you for the words of encouragement. Yes, that was scarey, and nothing actually happened other than the low number! Looking at all the other spreadsheets and hearing others' experiences I am pretty much thinking OMG!

The food I am feeding Liz now - Hill's m/d wet is not low carb enough according to everyone here, but I am going to call Hill's and check on that. I will be slow to make food changes if they need to be made! Great idea about marking the can. Sooo many helpful people here! If someone would have told me a week ago what this first week would be like, I would not have believed them. I do realize I am not alone, and appreciate all the help and great stories! :bighug:
 
Hi Vicki.

Great job today! The more I see of Liz the more I think this might be a short stay for her in LL. I'm thinking the change to moist food (even the higher carb M/D) seems to have really helped bring her numbers down. I don't mean to get your hopes up, but it is exciting to see her respond so well. You are getting great advice and support here, I know. These wonderful people saved my Cinco's life back when he was really sick after diagnosis. You are in good hands. I hope Liz gives you some more lovely numbers tonight. But Miss Elizabeth, can you please take it a little easy on your bean tonight ? She's had quite a day!
 
Re the hills canned M/D. I emailed the company a few months ago and if you go to the main forum and scroll down til you get to 'Australian canned foods suitable for diabetic cats' you will see a series of emails I had with the company here in Australia. It is in amongst a list of other foods within that thread.
I was told that the % of carbs in 100grams was 3.9 and a full can of M/D had 6 grams carbs. You need to compare oranges with oranges when looking at the number of carbs.....The higher number given with the M/D is dry matter and is always higher. Sheba was on M/D the first time she had diabetes and she went into remission after 4 months. I fed her only M/D plus a little bit of mince for over 2 years before she came out of remission following diarrhoea. I eventually found out she was allergic to the M/D and took her off it and her bowels were then fine. I feed her raw home prepared food now.
So I think the M/D is probably fine if your cat likes it. It is expensive though and I don't think it is any better than a lot of the canned food available from supermarkets or animal stores. A lot of people on the forum don't like it and prefer to feed low carb commercial canned food. I think quality of ingredients is important. Have you looked at Weruva 'cats in the kitchen' canned food. All low carb and quality ingredients. Just a thought.....
 
+ 11 is 147. Wendy, I believe you said Liz earned a reduction to .75? I will test again in an hour for PMPT and be back!! Any advice greatly appreciated!
 
Tricia - thank you for the support! I read Cinco's and your other cats stories yesterday...wow! I love animals, so I can relate to all these stories, and yours brought a tear to my eyes, as many here do. I hope you are correct about Liz graduating quickly from this forum. If she does, I will still stay around and share my experiences! So many wonderful people here!

Bron - thank you for the food information. I used that formula Dr. Lisa has published, and the ingredients on the m/d label, and came out with 9% carbs. Who knows if I'm doing it correctly. I might have to put my math genius husband on it! Right now I am fine with the m/d as Liz does like it and it appears to agree with her. I will be checking into other options, and no, I've never heard of Weruva, but I will look into it for sure. My vet's prices for m/d are reasonable.:cat:
 
What country are you located in?

I agree with Wendy that I would reduce Elizabeth's dose to 0.75u tonight.

You're doing great - and Tricia is right, her spreadsheet looks great. You've had almost 3 cycles of completely all blue and green and she didn't bounce high from her low numbers this morning. That tells us that her body hasn't been in uncontrolled high blood sugar for so long that her body has "forgotten" what normal blood sugar feels like. That's good news.
 
Elizabeth's PMPS is 141. Time for her shot, so still .75? and how long will I need to monitor her tonight after the shot? What are my options here?

And I think some of her blue is actually considered green since I use AlphaTrak, ...is that correct?

I am in USA - Laissez les bons temps rouler! Louisiana!
 
Yes, she'd get .75 tonight unless you can't be there to test, are running out of strips or HC food or can't be sure that if you NEED to, you can get up to test overnight

If any of those apply, you're safer to reduce even further or even skip the shot

I'd plan on getting a +1 and +2 and see how she's doing
 
Her dose would be 0.75u, but it's hard to say what tests you'll have to get and how long you'll have to stay up.

If you can't stay up, you have 2 other options. You can give a significantly reduced dose, like 0.25u and then return to her new dose of 0.75u in the morning, or you can skip a shot.

If you decide to shoot, you'll want to get a +1 and +2. You're shooting a normal number, which can really make progress with Lantus, and can cause the blood sugar to flatten out, only moving a few points in the next 12 hours sometimes. It's not for the faint of heart, but it is the path to going off of insulin.

I can stay with you tonight. Let me know what you decide to do and I'll check back in with you. You definitely want to get a +1.
 
I will do the .75 shot and be back in an hour with +1, and plan on a +2. Have all supplies necessary. Thank you!
 
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