3-21 Freddie AMPS 306 ? Increase dose

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Yvonne & Freddie

Member Since 2014
Freddie's is doing so good with his legs and getting more alert.
But I started him back on 1 unit this morning since his numbers were staying higher with the .75 unit...I am sure it was so close to the 1 unit mark though...it is really hard to tell on the syringes where actually what you are giving when you go between the lines.
His appetite has been really good the last couple of days so good there. But when I tested his urine he is positive again for BG + 2000 but still neg for ketones. 2 times this week he was neg. for BG in urine can't figure that one out yet.

I am going to try and learn what and how to tell a bounce today and how to deal with it when it happens----- there are so many terms to learn....cracks me up when I am reading your trends trying to figure out what you guys mean.

Yvonne
 
Hi Yvonne

Here's the link to Freddie's 3/20 Condo. We link the previous condo each day, even if it has been a week or a month. That way those of us helping can quickly get back through any important history :-D

I think it was good to increase his dose. Insofar as dosing, it will make it easier for you and more consistent if you try Dosing with Calipers. It takes the guesswork out of the lines and the syringes are really inaccurate anyway. PM me if you have any questions.

Ahhhh...bounces. One way to tell a bounce is when numbers have been running lower than he normally runs (it doesn't have to be low; but if he's been pink and he starts to run in blue, for example). The liver reacts at a number that does not seem "normal" to it because it's gotten used to the higher numbers. So it releases counterregulatory hormones and glucagon to bring the numbers back up to what it considers "safe". Thus the bounce. Sometimes it is signaled by a very rapid rise in numbers. Sometimes, it can be delayed because the pancreas can also release substances which will contribute to the bounce.

Bounces can take up to six cycles to clear. I find that fast drops can cause really hard bounces that last a little longer but ECID. There's not much you can do about it to prevent it and then you have to just try and ignore it and ride it out until the bounce clears. One of the most difficult things in reading a SS for a new member is telling the difference between bounces and not enough insulin. Normally, if there is not enough insulin, numbers will be high and flat. If kitty is coming down lower and going back up, it's likely a bounce but each kitty and each SS has to be looked at separately to really tell.
 
Hey Yvonne!!

I agree with Marje that Freddie's "bouncing", so you don't want to increase right now.

I looked through some of your old posts on Health because I remembered explaining bounces before, but you were getting a LOT of information thrown at you in a hurry, so you might not remember reading it.

When we first start giving insulin, our cats have already been diabetic for an unknown amount of time, and their body has gotten used to living at those higher numbers, so when the insulin brings them lower than they're used to, or they drop a big amount quickly (like from 400-250 in 2 hours), the liver thinks it's an emergency and releases hormones and sugars it's stored just in case. It's a leftover survival mechanism from when our cats were wild, and times were tough. If their blood sugar got too low, those stored sugars and hormones kept them alive until they could find food. Unfortunately, Mr. Liver doesn't understand that times aren't tough! We want those lower numbers! So he does his job, and sends the numbers back up fast (BOUNCE!!)

The more time we can keep them in "normal" numbers, the more used to it Mr. Liver will be. He has to re-learn what it's like to live at those lower numbers.

When they first start, they can bounce really high, and it can take up to 72 hours for the bounce to "clear", so it's important to know when they're bouncing, and when their numbers are just too high due to not enough insulin. As they spend more time in lower numbers, the bounces won't be as high, and will clear faster.
Click to expand...

We don't want to increase when they're bouncing because we have no way of knowing when they'll "break the bounce" and start coming down. If we ALSO increased the dose on the same cycle the bounce cleared, it could send Freddie too low, or cause him to drop too many points, too quickly....and both those things set him up for another bounce.

Marje has a great post about using calipers if you want to try them. I know those lines can be awful to see as well as the more you stare at them, the stranger they look. I was up most of the night with China and when her shot came around at 6am I drew it up, double checked it and didn't think I got it right..the more I looked at it, the less it looked like it was right. I finally had to put it down, rest my eyes for a few minutes and look again. I SWEAR those lines were moving!! :lol:

So don't feel alone in your frustrations with the lines! Even those people who've done it longer than I have occasionally have the same problems! You just have to try your best to keep it at a consistent dose.
 
AMPS 306
+3 285
+ 7 209 So with me making sure that I was giving Freddie 1 unit he was already bouncing??? I am sure with .75 it was almost 1 unit or close to it anyway......should I stay with the 1 unit or try and go back to the .75 as close as I can get there. His numbers are staying pretty close together.

Freddie's condo what is that and how do I bring that up????? Calipers I am lost again now...??? Are the calipers the little lines??? I use the BD Insulin syringes with BD ultra fine needles 3/10 ml 8mm 31G to give the insulin.

Is there a place I can go to read about this too?
I have reads vines????
I know I am such a challenge! :dizcat

Yvonne
 
Since you've already gone up to 1 unit, I would probably just stay there...Just make sure to get at least 1 tests in the AM cycle (around +5 to +7) AND at least one on the PM cycle (before bed to make sure you don't need to set an alarm) If you can get a +2 AND another test, that's even better because that +2 is a good test to let you know where Freddie's readings might go later in the cycle.

Picture of 1 unit

Picture of .5 unit

Picture of .75 unit (4th picture down)

As you can see, they are all VERY close together, so all you can do is keep it consistent. What you see as .5 one day should look the same the next day and the next day, etc.

Freddie's condo what is that and how do I bring that up?????
Click to expand...
Every day, when you start a new post, that's Freddie's "condo" (Condition Report) When you do tomorrow's, find THIS one first and copy the link from the address line (the same place you'd put http://www.google.com or something when you're looking for something on your computer). After you "copy" it, on tomorrow's post, IN THE BODY OF THE POST, first click on the URL tab (below the subject line) and then "Paste" the link you copied earlier. It will end up looking like this YOUR LINK HERE[url] [/color] only n...om/4-inch-digital-caliper-47256.html]Calipers. You can buy them from Harbor Freight or anyplace else that has them.

Here's How to dose using calipers

I have reads vines????
Click to expand...

I don't understand this question....where are you getting that from?

I have to run an errand, so if you don't hear back from me, I'll get back to you as soon as possible! Of course others here have just as much (or much MORE) experience than I do, so others may be able to help you too!

We totally understand that there's a lot to learn. That's why we're here! Someone spent the time to explain stuff 1000 times to us when we were new, and we're just "paying it forward"
 
I would hold whatever dose you've been shooting.

We maybe haven't explained very well but if we put a link in your condo that is in blue and has an underline, if you click on it, it will take you to the information we are posting. Sorry we didn't make that clear.
 
Re: 3-21 Freddie AMPS 306 PMPS 286

AMPS 306
+4=285
+7=209
PMPS 289 gave 1U
I tested Freddie and his numbers are staying around the same so I ended up giving him 1 unit. I will test at +3 or 4 and +6 or 7 and see what happens. Now I am thinking I should have stayed with the .75

Since I couldn't get him to eat much soft food yet I ended up ordering a bag of YA. He took to it even without the yummie packet. I know without much carbs in him I will test through the night. Could not having carbs really make his insulin go down really fast.?

Yvonne
 
yes, taking away dry food and the carbs that go with them can make insulin needs go down dramatically. Skipper went from 5.5u doses to zero insulin in one day when the dry food disappeared.

just to clarify, a "condo" is this thread. they're called condos because that's where cat's live - a kitty condo. People open a new "condo" or thread every day and give a "WCR" which is a whole cat report. it's important to hear how Freddie is feeling and behaving as well as just his blood sugar. if he has normal blood sugar but is acting sick, that's important information to share.

We do ask people to link the previous condo. For those of us who try to help, sometimes we need to see what has happened before today and it really helps us if we can click links to move backwards through one cat's threads. However, that's a habit that takes a little while to pick up and until you do, people will link for you. No worries about that.

there is a lot of lingo here. the FDMB started years ago and you know how it is, over time every group develops insider language. "Vines" came about when someone meant to say she was sending good "vibes" and typed vines instead. i only just learned that tidbit and i've been on the site since feb 2011. That's just wishing someone well.

there are a fair amount of color references - those refer to the colors of the spreadsheet. People say their cat was "swimming in the green lagoon" or "surfing" in it, and that means the cat spent some hours in BGs under 100 - green on the spreadsheet.

Don't worry about all of that - the important thing is to get help for Freddie here and that's easy for you to do. :-D if people use lingo you don't understand, just ask.

Since you've changed the dose, just try to repeat the same dose for at least 6 shots. That allows it to "settle" in so we can see what it does to Freddie's BGs. I'd make sure and get a +2 tonight and post it in the subject line.

Keep asking questions! It takes a while to get the hang of this, but you will!
 
Good posts from Marje and Julie. If you want to see a bounce, if you look at Gabby's SS, last night (3/20) during the PM cycle she dropped into the low 40s. By her AMPS, she was in the 300s. That's a bounce.

I hope you ordered the Young Again Zero Carb. Some kitties do really well with this food. I'd still encourage you to try to transition Freddie over to a canned food diet for any number of reasons. However, if the Young Again (YAZC) doesn't inflate Freddie's numbers and you can work on slowly switching him over to canned food, then it's a win win situation.

Don't get frustrated with the slang. There used to be a slang dictionary for Lantus Land. However, due to problems with the internet host server, the board has migrated to new servers twice since I've been here and information from the "old" boards was lost. The slang dictionary may be among the things that are history.
 
PMPS 289
+ 2 297

I am sure I will get use to all of this in time.......I did order the 0 carb....with Fred it is taking him a long time to switch over he has been a kibble junkie all his life so it will take some time. I really needed something for a back up for him.
And I did switch him to Evo but was really leary because it was recalled last year. He was on it when it was recalled. I think the YA is the dry food of choice for him for right now... Every day the wet food is offered but he has his days where he is not going to even try it. Was lucky today he ate 1/2 can. He knows that I will make him eat something so he figures if he holds out long enough he will get his own way. Smart little buggers...

I don't think I have anything to worry about with Freddie going low tonight but have my alarm set for 2 so am off to get a couple of hours if that is possible anymore. Thanks everyone!!!!
 
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