3/2 Samwise AMPS 532 PMPS 420

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sueandsamwise

sueandsamwise

Member Since 2010
AMPS 532 1U

I'm going to try 1unit in the morning and about .7 or .6 in the evening since he seems to go low overnight.

PMPS 420 .7
 
Re: 3/2 Samwise AMPS 532

Hi Sue-
I don't post often since I lost Latte, but I do peek in on the board a few times each week. It seems every time I see Samwise's condos somewhere he is so very high and you are getting little feedback. :sad: Maybe I am missing feedback you are receiving elsewhere on the board?? Anyway, I just wanted to see if everything was going okay? Is he feeling ok? Neuropathy concerns? Ketones checked? Eating? Drinking? Litter Box? I dont want to offer unsolicited advice. I just want to make sure both you and Samwise are doing ok, and make sure you are getting help if you need it. Latte rode VERY high the last few months of her life (and dropped fast, too). So, I know how excruciating it can be to see these higher numbers.

You mention he seems to go low overnight. Do you know how low he is going?

Hang in there!

Carolyn
 
Re: 3/2 Samwise AMPS 532 PMSP 420

No, I am getting almost no feedback. I guess people are just not interested because I don't test every stinking hour or something. I test usually a couple times a day. I just can't get home to test him and I don't test at night.
Why I don't know, I just want Sam to rest from being poked all the damn time. Why he's so high now I have no idea, I've tried high dose, low dose and nothing seems to work and he has been staying high. No ketones, he has been dragging his one hind foot, I hear his claws on the wood floor but by looking at him you can't tell hes dragging a foot. He seems in good spirits, comes for his shot, eats pretty good, uses the litter box fine. He does have "howler monkey" periods, goes off yowling to himself. If you talk to him he quits, or feed him, it stops. So I have no idea with his numbers I am going to do a curve tomorrow, Sunday.
 
Re: 3/2 Samwise AMPS 532 PMSP 420

sueandsamwise said:
No, I am getting almost no feedback. I guess people are just not interested because I don't test every stinking hour or something. I test usually a couple times a day. I just can't get home to test him and I don't test at night.
Why I don't know, I just want Sam to rest from being poked all the damn time. Why he's so high now I have no idea, I've tried high dose, low dose and nothing seems to work and he has been staying high. No ketones, he has been dragging his one hind foot, I hear his claws on the wood floor but by looking at him you can't tell hes dragging a foot. He seems in good spirits, comes for his shot, eats pretty good, uses the litter box fine. He does have "howler monkey" periods, goes off yowling to himself. If you talk to him he quits, or feed him, it stops. So I have no idea with his numbers I am going to do a curve tomorrow, Sunday.
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I would comment but I don't know how you are dosing, you are using PZI? With this Relaxed group, all sorts of people are posting and if there is no note in the signature and not anything at the top of the ss or someplace to say the insulin, nobody knows.

Even if you are using a P insulin, I don't get why you reduced from 1u to .7 if you were getting 300s.... now I see 400s.

In here, you sure don't need to have hourly tests, that's for sure but it would be helpful if you plan of attack is known.

I do see he's been ill and on meds, so those alone can make numbers lousy. Maybe you should increase the dose?
 
Hi Sue!

Just wanted to let you know that I always check in and see how Sam's doing :) I just can't comment on dosing b/c I really am not too sure myself what to do when getting numbers that you are. I see that you got lower blues and greens and so decreased, and then as soon as you did would get constant reds/purples or HIs. I am definitely interested, and it has nothing to do with not being able to test every hour! I can only test a couple times as day due to work as well - and I am incapable of staying awake at night, cat or no cat...I'm exhausted by evening time! I just wanted to let you know that I'm always reading up and sending good thoughts your way.
 
Re: 3/2 Samwise AMPS 532 PMSP 420

Hi Sue!
I don't think people are not interested because you don't test. It seems this area of the board is not frequented much, so you may need an eye catcher of a title or people will think you have things under control and just want to post numbers. If you are looking for feedback, one way to get others attention would be to put "Need Suggestions" or "Help" in your original subject line.

I'm glad to hear that you are testing for ketones, and so far so good. Please keep testing because his numbers (from what you have documented) are extremely high. When BG's are beyond 'renal threshold' it means sugar is being dumped into the urine. This makes the urinary tract more prone to infections (increasing risk of ketones) and makes the kidneys work harder than necessary. Extreme hunger and thirst is a symptom of high blood sugar, which is probably why you are hearing him yowl. Latte used to yowl because she was so thirsty. It was one of the hardest things for me to hear and see. :YMSIGH: I'm sure you know the dragging of his hind food could be neuropathy. Along with regulation, you can treat that with B12. If you are interested in more information you could post a question on health. It could be something else, which may be worthy of having your vet check out. If it is something that is causing pain, BG's can be raised or inconsistent.

(sorry if I am telling you things you already know)

I am glad you are going to get a curve in tomorrow. I am not going to ask you to test a zillion times a day, or even more than you feel you can. But I would like to offer a few thoughts on your concerns with bothering Samwise. He may very well be feeling 'ok'. However, Im sure he is not feeling great...or as great as he would if he had some lower BG's. If you asked him if it would be ok to get a few extra tests in on occasion to help him feel better, what would he say? Would he trade that in for less need to yowl and cry out of extreme hunger/thirst, possibly being able to walk without dragging his leg, for a less worried/frustrated mom? Maybe not (which is ok). You know him best.

One other thought...if you took samwise to a vet and asked if you should increase or decrease the dose, most likely they would say they need to due a fructosamine test, OR ask you to leave him for a full days curve. The vet needs to see what kind of blood sugar levels Samwise is getting while on insulin in order to know which direction to go. It is just the safest way to go about it. So maybe one thing you could do when you get frustrated and think you should change the dose, the type of insulin, etc is to...do a curve. It will probably give you the answer you need. :-D

I am not harping on you to do 6 tests/day, everyday. I really hope you do not take it this way. I am just hearing your frustration, and concerned about Samwise. A small bit of information or inconvenience may really make a difference in both of your lives. :mrgreen:

I hope you can get something figured out and his numbers down. As I said in my original post, Latte spent the last few months of her live in the 400- HI range on the meter. It brings tears to my eyes knowing how much discomfort she was in (for a variety of reasons). When I see other kitties in the same range on a regular basis, I just want to help. I dont want them to hurt, and I dont want their humans to feel the same type of fear and frustration I went through.

Don't hesitate to ask, if you need help. And, try to be open to all the help you may get in return. You just never know what little nugget may actually be the golden egg.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, Sue.

Carolyn
 
Sam is on Lantus not PZI. I got a new vet which put him on the Lantus last June. He'd been doing quite well, then we get all these hi's again and 400/500's. Sam did lose his buddy Ghost in December which could be the reason for his high numbers, he may be missing Ghost. Sam is not on any meds right now.
 
If nothing is working at home to get him regulated and he remains this high, my personal recommendation (if it were my cat) is to bring them to the vet for a day to get a full work up and curve.

It would terrify me to have my cat sit in such high numbers for so long.

What do you think Sue?
 
I agree. I may just have him go in to talk to the vet and to see if they think we should switch back over to PZI or to Levemir. Maybe he just needs a dose increase. I've never gone higher than a fat one with the Lantus.
 
Great! I hope you can get him in asap.
Good idea to have a full set of labs run to check kidney and thyroid functioning (among other things), urinalysis, fructosamine (though we already see he is sitting pretty high...never hurts to make sure), and a full blood glucose curve.

Make sure to get copies of all the labwork done, so you have it to refer to if you ever have questions.

The vet will likely keep you on Lantus and try to tweak the dose, then have you return for another full glucose curve in a few weeks to a month.
 
oh- and dont forget to have them check out the possible neuropathy (or other issue with the back leg). See if they will give you some b12 for that. Ive never used it. I think it is a pill?
 
Hi, Sue and Sam ~

Haven't been around much lately due to a crazy work schedule, but I wanted to check in to see how you and Sammy are doing these days, Sue. Oh, I'm so sorry to see those high numbers for him. I know you have a challenge with dosing for your sweet furboy.

Could I do a little thinking out loud here, Sue, to let you know what I'd do if Sam were my kitty? Whenever I gave him a reduction in dose, I'd skinny the higher dose, keeping his reductions small. And then I'd want to be sure over the next two to three days that he was able to hold that lower dose well. And by that I mean are his numbers looking as good or better than they were at the higher dose? If not, I'd take him back up to the previous higher dose that was working for him. I wouldn't keep him on a reduced dose that wasn't giving him good numbers for long, just long enough for any bounce to clear and to see what that lower dose was doing for him.

For example, you'd been dosing a fat 1 and starting to get some better numbers for Sammy. And then on 2/15, Sammy surprised you with that lovely 120 PMPS number. For Sam's safety and your comfort, you shot a reduced dose of .60 which is what I would have done too. You did test him at PM +2 and got that green 86. The next morning, 2/16, Sam's AM preshot was 592, and you shot a reduced dose of .70U. I think what I would have done is shot through the AM bounce/rebound by staying with the fat 1U dose and then reduced to 1U for the PM dose. Dropping the dose down to .70U is a very large reduction for Sammy since he doesn't tend to hold reductions well (and he's not alone, Sue. :smile: We've gone through that with Butters too). After a few days on that reduced dose of .70U, Sue, Sammy was not showing improved numbers so it was time to take him back up to a higher dose.

Sue, believe me, I do understand that you don't want to do a lot of testing at night. Neither do I...I'm just too darn tired. But one thing I'd gently suggest is that on those evenings whenever you can that you try to do a +2 test, as you did on 2/15. If Sam's going lower at night, that would help explain some of his higher AM numbers and tell you to hold the dose until the bounce has cleared. As you look back over Sam's spreadsheet, you'll be reminded that he does have a history of going lower at night.

For just a minute, I'd like to put bg numbers aside and let you know how wonderful it is for you to love Sammy the way you do. {{{Sue and Sammy}}}

Enjoy your afternoon with your sweet furboy,

Eva
 
sueandsamwise said:
Sam is on Lantus not PZI. I got a new vet which put him on the Lantus last June. He'd been doing quite well, then we get all these hi's again and 400/500's. Sam did lose his buddy Ghost in December which could be the reason for his high numbers, he may be missing Ghost. Sam is not on any meds right now.
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Ah OK; the dosing and the dose amounts throw one off because Lantus and Lev work much better when the dose remains constant, not changed am and pm. You will disrupt the shed by frequent changes.
Depending on the cat, it's usually a good idea to hold a dose, any dose, for at least 4 cycles minimum, and there are some cats that can take even 6cycles to recognize and react to a dose change.

As for deciding on your dose, the L's are dose based on their nadir, so it's almost MORE important to know what happening in mid cycle than at ps.

On 2/9, you see how you got the nice 147 at +5 on the first increase to f1.0, but if you had not tested then, the day would look like any other with both ps in the 300s.
By 2/15, it looks like he had leveled off and maybe the shed was a wee bit ful because his pmps was the 120. Decreasing the dose was good, but leaving it that much lower resulted in his numbers going up again, making it look like the 1.0u could be high while the .7u is definitely too low.

I am not sure why, but you increased the dose back to 1.0u again on 2/25, then decreased again to the .7u again, and then a shot at .6u, which would have further drained the shed.

Now you are back at the 1.0 dose again, so what about holding this dose to see how it goes?

I don't know about the others, but it's not easy to know what's going on if you have half a ss. In the evening, many cats drop lower, so if you can get at least a before bed test, you will know which way the numbers are heading.

If you keep seeing big jumps in numbers highs and lows, you can always consider trying Lev as it will give you a more flat curve.
You can also try food manipulation with more frequent feedings, plus give LC at ps and then mix in a bit of MC with the LC around mid cycle or just before nadir to try and slow down any drops.

If you are having back leg issues, you can tell your vet you want a bottle of B12(the pink stuff) to give weekly injections. There are also pills you can get methyl B12 just watch for sweeteners.
 
I do think I've been screwing with his dosing to much. He was doing pretty good at the fat 1u. I was thinking I should up his dose to that again. But, I'll hold at 1 unit for 3 days, then if no change go up to 1.25 u and see what he does. I think I'll try more testing too. I sort of fell off the testing thing when we got short of money all of a sudden. We had over draw issues at the bank and I had to pull money out of savings and my insurance went up to over 500 a month. I dropped it (which I hated to do, but my God! I can't afford that). My Dh is finally feeling better, they think they got him on the right dose of painkillers, he's got a patch, and I can afford some extra strips again. So, we will try this 1 unit dose, if that doesn't improve, we'll get an appt with the vet, and they will probably up his dose. Thanks for hanging by me, it's just so damned frustrating with Sammy! He's on his heated bed taking a nap after a roll in the dirt on the front porch. It's almost warmed up out here.
 
sueandsamwise said:
I do think I've been screwing with his dosing to much. He was doing pretty good at the fat 1u. I was thinking I should up his dose to that again. But, I'll hold at 1 unit for 3 days, then if no change go up to 1.25 u and see what he does. I think I'll try more testing too. I sort of fell off the testing thing when we got short of money all of a sudden. We had over draw issues at the bank and I had to pull money out of savings and my insurance went up to over 500 a month. I dropped it (which I hated to do, but my God! I can't afford that). My Dh is finally feeling better, they think they got him on the right dose of painkillers, he's got a patch, and I can afford some extra strips again. So, we will try this 1 unit dose, if that doesn't improve, we'll get an appt with the vet, and they will probably up his dose. Thanks for hanging by me, it's just so damned frustrating with Sammy! He's on his heated bed taking a nap after a roll in the dirt on the front porch. It's almost warmed up out here.
Click to expand...

What meter are you using? Some meters have cheaper strips and often you can get strips online at a cheaper price.

For testing, you would you be able to test 3 times a day? I know it's not perfect to some but it's sure alot better and safer than those who are not testing at all! Just testing before each shot and then just before bed are a pretty good minimum. Then when you can afford a few extra strips, you can do a curve, testing at ps, 3, 6, 9, and ps to see how a dose is working.

There are plenty of times when you can really save strips because when you change a dose, you know the numbers will rise on the first cycle, so no need to do a curve then. Lots of people can't do testing when they are working, so don't worry about lots of testing. There are lots of ways people are making do with what they have or what they are able to do.

Prevention and being proactive are pretty important. I think it's a good idea to be checking urine for ketones when you can. If you notice even a trace, it's best to jump all over it and flush them away than to know know and then suddenly you are in the ER with a very sick Sam.
That's what makes it important to watch for very high or very low numbers; just avoiding trouble is a savings to your wallet.

Once you have done a few curves and have an idea where Sam's nadir range is, you can focus more around that zone than others. You can also be able to use food to manipulate any low numbers you are getting. And if you are finding that Lantus is giving you too much of an extreme in numbers, there's no reason why you can't try switching to Levemir because others are finding their cats end up with a smoother curve.

But time will tell. Using a cost effective, economical method of treatment, you will eventually find what works for Sam.
 
Sue,
I think your train of thought is a good one! Sticking with 1u, 2x/day, with a few more tests (including 1 in the evening) for the next 3-5 days is a wonderful idea! :thumbup I think you will see his numbers go down a bit, and you will know where to go from there. It will probably be a lot less stressful for both of you (and cost effective, as Gayle pointed out) than going to the vet.

I will add, though...if for some reason you are unable to stick with your plan of action (or he just stays high), it would be wise to take him to the vet for a check up and curve. Just gotta get this boy down and feeling better! cat_pet_icon Once you do, I think you will wonder 'who this cat is?!' :mrgreen:

Fun that he got outside! Is the weather that nice where you are? Lucky!!!

Can not wait to see how things go!

Carolyn
 
I'm using the ReliOn meter since the strips are the cheapest. He's been doing pretty good today, (Sunday) staying in the pinks. I'd like him lower but hey, this is better than reds consistently. So, we'll do our 1 unit tonight and a test before bed.
 
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