3/19 Tugger PMPS 150, +2 58!, +3 61, +10 175 Lower or not?

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Marvie and Tugger

Marvie and Tugger

Very Active Member
Morning everyone =) I haven't posted since the forum change but I did introduce myself and Tugger on the old board right after he was diagnosed. Quick update is simply that Tugger was diagnosed when my life was at it's craziest. I'd just been diagnosed with bladder cancer and was starting chemo when he was diagnosed as diabetic, my husband has been stationed in Japan since April 08, I was working a 60+ hour a week job and both of my teens were, well, being teens lol. Due to everything that was going on combined with a vet that doesn't seem to care about anything other than getting all those many many hundreds of dollars I've paid his office, Tugger's progress has been slow. My charting was sporadic (I'm committed to doing better now, I spent the day setting up a SS for him yesterday with the info I do have written down from these past four months) and I just didn't have the time/energy to be more pro-active. He got his shot twice a day and I checked his sugars once in a while, but his numbers were so consistently high I didn't test before every shot.

Recently though, something has changed. Suddenly, the cats are willing to actually EAT wet food. Previously they would lick at it for about 30 seconds, get the juicy stuff (I add water to make it more juicy) and then they'd leave it and never touch it again. So while I was offering it often, it was all wasted. Now? I put it out, they all come in and they are taking real bites and clearing the plates! So I'm feeling much more positively about possibly getting them switched to all wet all the time before too much longer. Cross your fingers and paws for us that this trend continues. I really want them off the kibble!

So life is calmer now, chemo is finished and my cancer is gone (yay!) hubby will be home in a matter of weeks (to stay this time! also yay!) olderson became Armyson and is at Basic Training now, and youngerson seems to be chilling out. I also quit the job and am now unemployed, I will eventually need to go back to some form of paying job but I'm taking whatever time I can right now to get my health and Tugger's health on track.

OK, so that wasn't quick ;) sorry! Now we are finally getting to the point of my post though.

My question is this: based on the info in Tugger's SS (and feel free to pepper me with questions if you need to know more) how should I be handling things now that Tugger is eating more wet food and less kibble? I see definite changes in his numbers on days he eats mostly wet food. We've gotten under 200 a couple of times in the past couple of days. I assume I will need to start backing off on his Lantus dose a bit if these numbers keep going down and I've read that when making diet changes you should adjust doses but I'm not really comfortable doing it alone. I felt ok bumping it up every so often, but backing off makes me nervous. I don't want to do it wrong, and I know I've been doing SO many things wrong these past few months because the more I read around here, the more I am learning about how I've been screwing up ;)

Advice?

(Removed from subject line to make room for dose question +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104, +11 162)
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245

Hi Marvie,

Welcome to the Lantus forum!

I think I remember you, did you go by a different name in the old board?

One thing that stands out in your spreadsheet is the lack of evening spotchecks.
For one thing, kitties tend to get lower numbers in the evenings, just as the day time numbers are key to seeing how Lantus is working, so are the evening checks.
What is your evening schedule like? At the most a before bedtime check would be really good to see.

You're seeing some nice blues in the mornings, which is very good!

Others with dosing experience will be along today to give you feedback on the spreadsheet, I wouldn't touch the dose right now until you hear back from others.
Without the evening numbers, it may be difficult to assess the dosing, if you are planning for some spotchecks today for this cycle, that would be great...try to get a +3, a +6 and +11 for this cycle, ok? Hang in there - things will work out!
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245

Welcome back Marvie. It's great to hear you're feeling better and your health is much improved. You've had a huge amount on your plate the last few months. I hope we can lend a hand with Tugger.

It's great to hear that Tugger and company are happy about canned food. Transitioning everyone to the wet stuff will be great for Tugger's numbers and make you're life easier since you won't have to be feeding everyone different food. You are correct that eliminating the dry food, even if it's one of the higher protein foods, will help. BTW, while the protein content is important, for a diabetic, it's the carbohydrates that are even more critical. Cats, not just diabetic cats, do not metabolize carbs. They are obligate carnivores and do not need plant or vegetable matter. All of your kitties will benefit from the food change. If you've not already seen/read this site on feline nutrition, it's authored by a vet and is a wealth of information. I'm assuming you have seen Janet & Binky's food charts and that's what you're using to select canned food that's less than 10% carb. (Also, do you have a hypo kit put together?)

With the food transition, you will need to do a lot more monitoring than what you've been doing. Tugger is getting a large dose of insulin and it's not entirely clear from your SS why the dose was increased. Could you fill us in as to how the dosing decisions were made? If you've not had a chance to look it over, this is the dosing protocol we use. An abbreviated version is in the sticky at the top of the Board with the tight regulation protocol information. It may be that Tugger's dose should be reduced but I'd like some of the other experienced members of the Board to take a look at Tugger's SS.

It's good that you've been getting pre-shot tests fairly regularly. Now comes the really important work. Lantus dosing is not based on pre-shot numbers. Rather, the dose is raised or lowered based on the nadir -- the lowest point of the cycle. This means getting spot checks during both the day and evening cycles on a regular basis. You are already seeing some improvement in numbers. You won't know how well Tugger is doing or if he needs less insulin unless you can begin to work mid-cycle checks into your schedule. If you've been reading condos or looking at our SSs (Gabby's will scare you -- I test a lot!!), you'll see that in order to know how to manage dose as well as low numbers, we test.

Please ask us questions. I'm sure others will be along with some questions for you, as well.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245

I'm just stopping in to say welcome and that you are going to see such a big difference with Tugger once you have the guidance of the kind and experienced people here.

What a time you have had! I'm happy to hear that things are smoothing out for you. Best of luck on this leg of your adventure with Tugger.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245

Ronnie & Luna said:
Hi Marvie,

Welcome to the Lantus forum!

I think I remember you, did you go by a different name in the old board?

One thing that stands out in your spreadsheet is the lack of evening spotchecks.
For one thing, kitties tend to get lower numbers in the evenings, just as the day time numbers are key to seeing how Lantus is working, so are the evening checks.
What is your evening schedule like? At the most a before bedtime check would be really good to see.

You're seeing some nice blues in the mornings, which is very good!

Others with dosing experience will be along today to give you feedback on the spreadsheet, I wouldn't touch the dose right now until you hear back from others.
Without the evening numbers, it may be difficult to assess the dosing, if you are planning for some spotchecks today for this cycle, that would be great...try to get a +3, a +6 and +11 for this cycle, ok? Hang in there - things will work out!
Click to expand...

I may have used a different name, I honestly don't remember :oops: . I think I only posted one topic and maybe replies in it, otherwise I spent all of my time reading. Which is what I've been doing all over again this week because I missed so much info the first time around not to mention I didn't retain too much of what I did read with all that was going on at the time.

You're right, I hadn't really thought of that but I do seem to be doing those only in the daytime. I will fix that right away! I think that may be in part because once he's had his pm shot he goes to bed and I don't see him again till bed time. I'll put his test kit in the bathroom after his pmshot so I'll remember to do a bedtime check. He gets his shots at 8:45 am/pm because I didn't even think about dst making a difference till it was too late to move his schedule gradually. It's working out just fine though since I am always home at those times. I can and will make a point of getting other spot checks in the evenings.

I made a note for today to check him at +3, a +6 and +11. Poor boy, his left ear is a bit bruised from yesterday. I tried to alternate but it looks it's the spot that bled pretty heavily... the Great Dane flapped his ears in the other room, he jerked as I poked, and I had a bloody mess. He takes it all pretty well though, as long as I'm willing to let him take his time and make up his own mind about which side he wishes to present me for testing and shooting that is ;)
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245

Sienne and Gabby said:
Welcome back Marvie. It's great to hear you're feeling better and your health is much improved. You've had a huge amount on your plate the last few months. I hope we can lend a hand with Tugger.

It's great to hear that Tugger and company are happy about canned food. Transitioning everyone to the wet stuff will be great for Tugger's numbers and make you're life easier since you won't have to be feeding everyone different food. You are correct that eliminating the dry food, even if it's one of the higher protein foods, will help. BTW, while the protein content is important, for a diabetic, it's the carbohydrates that are even more critical. Cats, not just diabetic cats, do not metabolize carbs. They are obligate carnivores and do not need plant or vegetable matter. All of your kitties will benefit from the food change. If you've not already seen/read this site on feline nutrition, it's authored by a vet and is a wealth of information. I'm assuming you have seen Janet & Binky's food charts and that's what you're using to select canned food that's less than 10% carb. (Also, do you have a hypo kit put together?)

With the food transition, you will need to do a lot more monitoring than what you've been doing. Tugger is getting a large dose of insulin and it's not entirely clear from your SS why the dose was increased. Could you fill us in as to how the dosing decisions were made? If you've not had a chance to look it over, this is the dosing protocol we use. An abbreviated version is in the sticky at the top of the Board with the tight regulation protocol information. It may be that Tugger's dose should be reduced but I'd like some of the other experienced members of the Board to take a look at Tugger's SS.

It's good that you've been getting pre-shot tests fairly regularly. Now comes the really important work. Lantus dosing is not based on pre-shot numbers. Rather, the dose is raised or lowered based on the nadir -- the lowest point of the cycle. This means getting spot checks during both the day and evening cycles on a regular basis. You are already seeing some improvement in numbers. You won't know how well Tugger is doing or if he needs less insulin unless you can begin to work mid-cycle checks into your schedule. If you've been reading condos or looking at our SSs (Gabby's will scare you -- I test a lot!!), you'll see that in order to know how to manage dose as well as low numbers, we test.

Please ask us questions. I'm sure others will be along with some questions for you, as well.
Click to expand...

The food thing has been our biggest fight. I've tried for years to get them to eat canned food. It was always the same, they'd lick the juice and leave the rest. I tried chunky, I tried flaked, I tried every texture known to man. Pate is the only one that they would ingest the tiniest amount of actual food, and only if I added hot water and turned it into liquid. They still somehow managed to drink the liquid out and leave behind pate. At least they were drinking though, so I kept trying.

I've read so much about feline nutrition in the past 5 or so years since Tugger had his first bladder issues... I do know what is best and healthiest, it's just always been a problem getting them to eat what is good for them. Rather like kids, except my cats will literally starve themselves before eating something they don't like. I tried all of the suggestions for switching then, as well as in December, and all I got was five cats who refused to eat. I'm thrilled with the progress we're making right now =) I'm thinking if they keep this up I can have them off the kibble by the end of the weekend.

I actually printed Janet's chart. Yes, all 20 something pages of it. I do better with paper and books tbh, I do love the internet for communication and education but I still find myself learning more when I have paper in my hand. So I'm going to sit down with the pages and come up with a list of foods that are available in our area and come up with our own shopping list of things to try and then we'll figure out which things they like and maybe I can make a reusable shopping list for myself of foods they like.

I do have a hypo kit, it's on the counter with the rest of his stuff. I've taught the kids and when hubby gets home, he'll be getting a crash course of his own. He was home in December, but his attention was not on the cat's needs. He learned to give the shot and accepted that I would learn the rest and then teach him what he needs to know. He doesn't handle the pet health stuff much, it's kinda my job, but he does all the dishes and cleans bathrooms and does laundry etc. etc. etc. so I absolutely don't mind ;)

The more I'm reading around here, the more unhappy I am with my vet. He's pretty much ignored us since he sent Tugger home with his meds. Because I have so many pets, we're in there often with someone or other. So a couple of times I spoke with the tech about Tugger for a quick update but otherwise, nada. During one visit with another cat, I did ask him about increasing. He said I could do it in half unit increments and to wait at least a week in between. He seemed to feel we'd have to go kind of high as long as Tugger was still eating kibble, which makes sense. He never told me to stop at any certain dose, never told me to come back in. That was in December. So, I upped his dose in half unit increments, waiting in between like he said. He knew I was home testing but he never told me to do spot checks or that dosing was based on nadir readings not pre-shot. I've only recently learned that from this board. The vet did try to get me to leave Tugger there for a curve but I refused on the basis of stress giving false readings, so he told me to do it at home but he didn't request that I bring him the data. I seriously feel like I've been flying solo on this. I'm on the hunt for a new vet.

I have the time and attention to pay now, so I really want to do this right from here on in. I'll get more spot checks and will continue to do a test before every shot and I will document better. Much better!

I just have to add that I just took a break from typing because Tugger wanted to play! That is the first time he's played with me since his diagnosis! I've seen him play with the kitten once in a while for a few seconds, but this was with a toy and he maintained it for almost five minutes. He looks... frisky. Alert. I am such a happy mama right now! I had a great walk with the dig last night too, for the first time ever it was perfect. Things just might be looking up around here =)
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245

Lydia and Basil said:
I'm just stopping in to say welcome and that you are going to see such a big difference with Tugger once you have the guidance of the kind and experienced people here.

What a time you have had! I'm happy to hear that things are smoothing out for you. Best of luck on this leg of your adventure with Tugger.
Click to expand...

Thanks =) I'm already seeing a ton of improvement with just a couple of successful changes, so I'm excited to see where we can go from here.

I assume I'm not the only one who's noticed this but Tugger seems to figure out what is good for him. He never used to when all were were dealing with was his bladder stuff, but now that things have gotten more complicated, I seem to be noticing that he's accepting the things that make him feel better. He never fought about his shots, some resistance the very first time but not much, and after that he started coming to me at shot time every day. He hollers (in a whisper because that's how he rolls :lol: ) at me till I get up and get all the stuff ready. If I take too long at the counter, he'll hit me in the back of my calf with his paw.

Yesterday, he accepted every single ear poke and only got upset once. That was just crappy timing on the dog's part though ;)

Now, he's eating the wet food after ten freakin' years of acting like it was all but poison. But he feels better, I can see it in his eyes and his playfulness today. He's choosing the wet food over the tiny bit of kibble that's left over from yesterday. It's almost time to put out the mid-day cans. I've never been so happy to put out stinky wet food lol.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245 +3 113

I just checked him +3 is at 113. This is a HUGE difference from yesterday's +2 of 310 but he's had a lot less kibble than usual and I fed wet at 6:00 this morning instead of kibble.

He was napping when I found him to test him, but he's been playful and alert today. I think he was just trying to hide from all these pokes ;) I may have to drag him out of the bed at 2:45 to check him, but the boy will be home then so he can help if we have to do that lol. I think I'll save the mid-day cans till then, he'll come out of hiding when the cans crack open.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245 +3 113

What wonderful descriptions of Tugger and it's clear how happy this is making you! And congrats for doing all of the homework/reading you've been doing. Many of the vets of the kitties here are less well informed about Lantus than the members here. Vets have to stay on top of every illness in every species of animal they see. We focus on FD and there is a huge community of us with lots of resources and skills. Your vet may be fine for lots of things. We can help you with the FD. But, if you are unhappy with your vet, I'd suggest posting on Health and asking for recommendations for vets in your area.

What are you doing for treats? (Treats are a big discussion in these parts.) If he's eating any of the dry, crunchy ones, you'll want to find an alternative. Here's a surprise -- we'll have suggestions!!

Given that you are seeing such a dramatic difference in numbers without the dry food, please test fairly often. In fact, given where Tugger is now, I'd think seriously about a +4.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245 +3 113

Sienne and Gabby said:
What wonderful descriptions of Tugger and it's clear how happy this is making you! And congrats for doing all of the homework/reading you've been doing.

What are you doing for treats? (Treats are a big discussion in these parts.) If he's eating any of the dry, crunchy ones, you'll want to find an alternative. Here's a surprise -- we'll have suggestions!!

Given that you are seeing such a dramatic difference in numbers without the dry food, please test fairly often. In fact, given where Tugger is now, I'd think seriously about a +4.
Click to expand...

How about a +4.5? +4 was almost 20 minutes ago, but I do know where he is hanging out right now so I can go do it at 1:15.

Tugger doesn't like dry crunchy treats, except for the cranberry ones he used to get once in a while, but we stopped those in December. I'm sure the treats we do use aren't good, he gets one Purina Whisper Lickin's Tender Moments treat for shots and tests. It wasn't much of an issue when he was only getting three or four tiny treats a day, but if I'm going to be poking him all the time like this we do need to change. These treats are probably why he tolerates it all so well lol it's the only thing he gets that has carbs. I just looked at the label and it's got wheat flour, corn gluten meal and wheat gluten that jump right out at me. His kibble is grain free and now the canned is too, so the treats and the last little bit of kibble is all that's left to eliminate.

I've tried cooked chicken and such. He does not eat People Food. Not even cheese. Not ice cream. Nothing. When he was young he'd lick the salt off a potato chip, but that's it. He will eat Bonita flakes (kitty crack in a can) but that is the only thing I can think of that I know he'll eat other than what he now gets. I'm open to suggestions, absolutely!
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86

86! He looks so... happy? He was in the window watching birds and sniffing the spring air but he came right to me when I came in with the test stuff.

Tugger just hasn't been himself for sooooo long. I'm very happy to see him obviously feeling better. This boy was born in my bed on March 29, 2000, first of the litter of five. Youngerson named him Tiger, because of his stripes and immediately claimed him. Well, Tiger became Tigger because he was such a bouncy kitty. He was into everything and always bouncing. He played fetch for the longest time. He became Tugger when he lived with friends of ours during the great move to Germany in 2004. Her youngest daughter was just learning to talk and Tigger became Tugger and it stuck. Because that's about the time he started gaining weight. Three separate vets told me he was perfectly healthy and not to worry when I expressed concerns about his weight gain over the next few years. He topped out at 27 pounds about a year after we got back from Germany. I did what I could with portion control and his finickyness but I am now sure the Science Diet kibble he was on for so long contributed to the weight. He lost a bunch right before he was diagnosed but he's put some back on in the past couple of months. I noticed the gain started when his numbers got below the 400's. I'll try to weigh him today or tonight sometime. He's not fond of being held so it's not something I do very often (especially now that he's being tortured daily!) but it is something I should kind of have some clue about.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86

Up to 104 now. I'm going to leave his poor ears alone for a while. I'll get a +11 and then a bedtime check, and that's it for today. Poor guy has been a trooper!
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

Hi Marvie, Tugger sounds like a real sweetheart. I'm too new to advise on dosing, but a lot of peeps are here just for support. So glad things are getting better for all of you.

Tess absolutely loves the freeze dried dog treats, chicken or beef liver. She drooled all over my hand when I first gave her the chicken. They are single ingredient, no carbs as far as I can tell. Since they are for dogs they are kind of big, break or cut them up. Crushed over wet food gets her to finish a meal when she gets finicky. Petsmart sells them as Prime Bites, lots of pet stores will have one brand or another. Pure Bites and Halo are brand name versions, but a lot pricier and harder to find locally.

You've already had the experts take a peek, so welcome once more and see you around.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

Thanks! I am going to head out to check a couple of the nearby pet stores to see what I can find for treats. I'd just been thinking about trying some of the dog treats, I know there are some all meat ones I used with Boomer when we were first training and he'd just spit milkbones out onto the street, so I thought I might give those a try.

Off to the pet stores to see what I can find now!

I think I need to schedule myself an eye appointment, I hadn't noticed how poor my vision has become till I started having to read labels! I know it's been at least two years since my prescription has been changed, so it's probably time. I'm getting a headache just thinking about reading labels!
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

The type has been getting smaller, and tends to be white on a light colored background. Maybe they figure if we can't read it we won't complain about poor ingredients. :lol:
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

By the way I'm with you in liking to have a hard copy to read and take w/ me. I have both the old Janet and Binky's list and an edited version of the new list with only the foods under 10% carbs in .doc format. Takes a lot fewer pages and you can cut and paste the foods you want into your own list. If you want it I can PM it to you. (I think, never tried attaching anything in a PM. ;-)

I also reformatted all of Dr. Lisa;s nutrition articles w/out pix and smaller font,taking fewer pages.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

Ann & Tess said:
By the way I'm with you in liking to have a hard copy to read and take w/ me. I have both the old Janet and Binky's list and an edited version of the new list with only the foods under 10% carbs in .doc format. Takes a lot fewer pages and you can cut and paste the foods you want into your own list. If you want it I can PM it to you. (I think, never tried attaching anything in a PM. ;-)

I also reformatted all of Dr. Lisa;s nutrition articles w/out pix and smaller font,taking fewer pages.
Click to expand...

I'm not one to re-invent the wheel, so I would love to have a copy of your list =) Thank you! If it doesn't work in a PM I can give you my email address.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

Ann & Tess said:
The type has been getting smaller, and tends to be white on a light colored background. Maybe they figure if we can't read it we won't complain about poor ingredients. :lol:
Click to expand...

I did notice that the larger cans of food have much easier to read fonts, but I was really struggling with the small cans. Yes! The light type on light background is kinda sucky. One of them has pink text. It's horrid. Makes my eyes cringe, I swear.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104

+11 is 162

Anyone want to advise me on how to handle the dosage or timing of his next shot if his number is still this low? I've only shot twice under 200 and both times were daytime when I could watch him through the whole cycle. So should I give his usual dose at his usual time or give less or wait till later and do a couple more checks? I don't mind if his schedule gets thrown off, I'm able to work around it at this point in time so if I have to shoot an hour or two later tonight I have no problem being able to do the next one 12 hours from whatever time. Especially since it's the weekend so that means I could sleep in tomorrow morning ;)
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, +3 113, +4.5 86, +6 104, +11 162

Edit the subject line in your first post so it will show up in the list. Put "Dose question" in the Subject space. Just sent the PM , could only add 1 attachment. Let me know if it worked.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, Dose question

today was an absolutely perfect cycle, so unless you get a big surprise at PMPS, I wouldn't change a thing. :smile:

It's fine to shoot under 200 with Lantus, we just ask that whenever you shoot your lowest ever preshot that you get a +1 and +2 afterward to start gathering data for next time you shoot low.

You have high carb wet food on hand, right? I don't think you'll need it tonight, but if you don't have any then it would be a good idea to buy some when you're out tomorrow.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, Dose question

I do have a high carb wet food, picked up a couple of pouches today of food that if it had been around when I first tried to switch him years ago, probably would have worked. It's got lots of gravy

So I shoot as usual and do a test +1 and +2 then again at bedtime (which tends to be around ten or eleven pm for me, but my teen is out so I'm not sure how late I might be up)

My kitties are all not too happy with me right now, I'm stubbornly holding out on the kibble. I've fed nothing but wet food all day today. They were fine with that while there were kibbles in the bowl, but someone ate the last bit and now they're all up in arms. They are eating the wet food though, so I'm not going to offer the dry. I'll donate it all to the shelter the moment I'm sure things are going to stay on track with this change.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150

PMPS 150. I shot, but I shot in the scruff instead of in the flank. I know he absorbs differently in the flank because I got lower numbers when I switched from the scruff, I was nervous about the low number so I chose the spot that I felt might keep him from going all hypo-kitty on me. I gave his usual dose and will check him at 9:45 for his +1. I hope this was the right choice... I'm nervous! Tugger's numbers have been so high for so long that these little numbers are kind of scarier than the big ones!
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!

Ok, now I'm nervous. 58 is low. I gave him a tbs-ish (eyeballed) of gravy from the packet of HC food I bought today. He scarfed it then went over to the food plates and started eating more wet food. What next? Do I need to make coffee?

I noticed at about that same time, I haven't had to refill the water bowl today. I have dumped and refilled it but not because it was low, I should say. Because it is habit and I just kind of do it. I assume they are drinking less because they are not eating the dry food?

ETA: I missed the +1 check because my husband called from Japan and I totally missed doing the check. I barely caught the +2.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!

I don't usually test at +1. I would get a +2.5 just to see what effect the HC gravy had and if Tugger's numbers are going up or down. A 58 is not a panic number -- well, you haven't seen 50s so it probably makes you a little nervous. In a week or two, it will be a piece of low carb cake.

Lets see where the next test is before you put on a pot of coffee.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!

wow, the food change is really making a difference already. :mrgreen:

Yes, test again 30 minutes after the last test to see what the gravy did.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!

Heh, exactly! I might as well give it ten more minutes and test on time though. By the time I finish typing and posting, get the dog off my lap (and the laptop off the dog) and get into the kitchen, it'll be time ;)

I'm trying not to get too nervous, I've been reading enough today and I see enough people online that I know I'm not alone and there are steps to take. I'm as ready for this as I'm going to get I think!

K off to test again. Poor kitty that last one was a little tough, I told him that would be his last test for the night unless he gave me a weird number. I consider 58 a weird number lol.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!

+3 61

Looking better. The gravy helped. Should I give him more or wait and see how things go? I'm getting sleepy, but I can set an alarm to test him again in a while. I could also put out a bit of his dry food and see if that might carry him through the night I guess.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!, +3 61

if you're getting sleepy I would give some more gravy and test in another 1/2 hour. Sometimes they still bobble around until nadir, so you want him to be a little higher than this before sleeping.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!, +3 61

It there's any way to avoid the dry food, let's avoid it. It takes forever to actually raise BG and forever to get out of the system.

I would probably feed form MC (drizzle some gravy over LC wet food) and test at +3.5. The 61 and 58 are pretty much the same number. It's looking like Tugger may be surfing but it's still too early in the cycle to really tell.
 
Re: 3/19 Tugger AMPS 245, PMPS 150, +2 58!, +3 61

ACK! I guess I did sleep. I set the alarm on my phone for 2:45 and it never went off. I did give him a bit more gravy and tested him again and it was at 70 before I fell asleep a little before 1am. I tested him just a bit ago at +10 and he was at 175 then I fed canned breakfast.

I am surprised at how quickly the wet food is making a difference! I knew the dry they've been eating, even grain-free, wasn't ideal but we did see a bit of a numbers drop when we switched from the old dry that had grains. I have been offering wet food all along, but I guess Tugger wasn't eating enough of it to make a difference till now. I'm amazed and quite happy to see the change, even if these low numbers are scary.

Do we need more data before thinking about a decrease? His shot time is 8:45 this morning so we have an hour and a half to decide.
 
Hi Marvie, Looks like you had a little excitement last night. don't worry, screwed up alarms a just part of the sugardance. Don't feed any more now until the shot time. We try not to feed within 2 hours of the shot so as not to have the food effect the preshot number. I don't know who's on the board right now, but you should get s response soon.

When you do the preshot you'll start a new condo too, you know that right? check in later
 
I figured I'd have to start a new thread for today's shot cycles... just from looking at how the other threads have gone. I was just debating whether I should start a new one to ask about his dose question since the ? is about his am dose so I was poking around to see if I could figure it out based on other threads.

I'm going to have to figure out a new feeding system then because I've been doing that all wrong too, this whole time. Gah!

Our typical schedule is:

Youngerson got up on weekdays at 5:30 and fed (kibble)

I would get up shortly after and Tugger would get his shot at 7:45 (which became 8:45 with the time change)

Kibble would stay out all day or till they finished it

Dinner (kibble) fed between 4 and 6pm would usually last well into the night or till the next morning.

PM shot given at 7:45 (now 8:45)

So we need to not feed till after his shots from now on? How long of a fast should there be preshot?
 
Hi good morning,

you can begin a new thread if ur getting a +11, link this one to the new thread too, dont worry if u forget, someone will do it for u.

Feed breakfast/dinner (AMPS/PMPS) and spread out small snacks thru the day, +6 and +9 are excellent times to have a little snack.
kitties tend to eat/graze after shot too up to +3, so its ok to have food available after shot too.

And right - no food at all after +10 in both cycles, or you'll get a food spiked preshot number.

Eventually, the dry will have to go, as its going to keep your numbers up, and takes longer to leave their system....and yup - wet food really does make a difference - not only in numbers, but you'll see physical changes too - fur will get nice and soft!

see if u can grab a +11 or +11.5 test
 
Usually 2 hours before the shot. We want to make sure that the number is high enough to shoot safely and not be effected by food. Usually we test, feed then shoot right away. Some people shoot while the cat is eating, it distracts them from the shot. I do the preshot 15 minutes before shot time, get the food out and shoot when the time comes. She may still be eating or not.

Ronnie gave me the same advice about the +11. It gives you an advance warning for low numbers and you can do a couple extra tests to see if the number is rising before it's time to shoot.

It's very early here, I'm back to bed. This will bump your thread to the top of the list. Someone should be along soon.
 
Morning Marvie!

Before we make any decision about dose, please post your AMPS. If's fine to post your +11 or +12 in a new condo for the day. If you end up needing space in the subject line later in the day, you can edit out those numbers. Please get a new condo started.

Just as an FYI, only a BG below 50 earns a dose reduction. Like others have said, no food within 2 hrs. of shot time. Most of us test, feed, shoot. I shoot when Gabby has her nose in her food bowl so the latter two steps are almost simultaneous.
 
Welcome Marvie & Tugger! I can't add any dosing advice (wait for the experienced people). It seems that everyone who replied to your original posts has answered most of your other questions. So I will just say, Welcome! Oh, one thing I might be able to suggest: if you shoot insulin into the scruff apparently it isn't absorbed as well. I shoot down on the shoulder (where the skin is easy to tent up) and I alternate shoulders. It seems to work fine. I also give the shot when Stu is eating: his head is in the bowl and he doesn't even notice the shot.
Good luck with Tugger. I am very glad that you are healthy again and that your life is getting back in order.

Ella & Stu
 
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