3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +4 44 +5 109 +6 153 Only Day 2

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Katie & Mego (GA)

Katie & Mego (GA)

Member Since 2013
Does this seem normal? This is after only 1 shot yesterday at 1 unit. Since I couldn't get an AMPS this morning I didn't shoot. And with the PMPS 135 I just got, I'm really glad I didn't shoot. Since it's this low, what are the recommendations for shooting. I'm a little nervous because his numbers came down A LOT after yesterdays shot. I'll admit, I still have a ton of reading to do on the "shooting low" sticky. Any advice would be much appreciated. In the meantime, I'm going to read the stickies!
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Mego's numbers look like they're coming down nicely! It's possible the diet change alone will bring his numbers down to healthy levels. No dose advice from me, we'll see what the experts advise. You might want to use the lil ? icon on your main post to catch some attention.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

I'd suggest getting a +1 and a +2 test. Whenever you shoot low, especially since you don't have much data, it's best to test early and often.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

I agree with a +1 or +2. Leo's taught me that if he's going to tank after shooting a low BG, he does it very early in the cycle so I generally get early tests unless I'm pretty darned sure from his past data that he'll be fine for a few hours.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Welcome to LL.. he is such a cute boy!! I love that little dark triangle of his nose!!

135 is a nice preshot given you skipped this morning (good idea if you cant get a reading btw!)

You have stopped feeding dry food as treats right? I am wondering if you are already starting to see impact of the food change.. paws crossed!
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Thanks everyone. Every post makes me feel a little more comfortable. Yes Wendy, all dry food has been stopped since March 9th. He did have 1 day of prescription Purina DM dry bits as treats during his BG testing and it looked like his numbers went up. He now gets cooked chicken or the freeze dried turkey bits as treats - no more dry EVER! I'm keeping my fingers crossed too! He's now on a combo of the Purina DM & Friskies canned foods and the transition was no problem.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Any updates?

He'll eat DM? (Look at the ingredients. It's not a high quality food. The Friskies is better!)
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Katie....I'm also watching you all. Please be sure you see Sienne's post above this one.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only on Day 2

Hi everyone,

Ok, I'm not freaking out yet. I'm trying to stay calm. I just gave him a good teaspoon of Karo and also rubbed some on his gums. I also put out some of my hypo kit gravy food. I'll be keeping a very close eye on him and probably retesting every 15-30 minutes. Since we are only at +4, I am assuming it would continue to go down until peak around +6. So I'm taking precautions now. I will also be calling the vet tomorrow to discuss these numbers. I hope there are some of you still awake out there who can give me some feedback please! :shock:

Lessons learned tonight: test more often when starting with lower AM or PMPS
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Good you are staying calm.

Please give him two tsp of the gravy. I'll watch for you in 20 minutes.

Lesson one that I learned when we were new: listen to Sienne when she asks you to get a +1 and +2 ;-)
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

First, breathe. You're doing great. I know a 44 seems scary. However, how is Mego acting? My guess is he's more interested in the HC food and thinks he's done something absolutely wonderful to get the yummy food. These are low numbers that you can steer. As long as you have your meter, strips, and HC food, you are in control.

The reason I suggested getting the early tests is that they can often telegraph that numbers are going to drop. If your +1 or +2 was lower than your pre-shot number, you can give some low carb, for example, to start to slow things down.

The drop below 50 means you should decrease your dose to 0.75u tomorrow.

I'm probably going to be passing out shortly. Marje is going to be around for a while longer -- she's on Pacific time. We won't leave you alone. Along with Marje, there are other people around who are experienced with managing low numbers. (You're going to find that you like green, a lot.)
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

I am around a bit longer....tomorrow is a work day for me so it's the only night that I have to get to bed at a certain time. If he's not coming up, I will find someone to stay with you so you won't be alone.

Also...your 911 didn't show up on the board because you have to put it on the first post of the day. I you put it on a subsequent one, we can't see it unless we actually open your condo. So any changes you need to make to the subject line or if you need to click on one of the buttons above it, open the condo, go to your first post of the day, click on "edit", change your subject line or click on the button you want (above the subject line), and click submit.

We ask that one someone is helping you, you take down the 911. If you asked a question and it gets answered, please take down the "?". Thanks!
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Ok, we're at 87 now. He has been to the water bowl quite a few times in the last hour, drinking a little at a time. Feeling a bit better but still keeping an eye on him. Should I test again in 15 or 30 minutes?
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

30 minutes.

That 87 is all karo. Did you give any gravy?

The karo and HC food/gravy wears off fast. Depending on the cat....1-2 hours. So you must stay on top of testing until you get a couple rising, non food Influenced numbers. You don't have to test every 30 mins all night. But you will need to be testing.

Usually the person helping you will tell you when to get the next test.

It's also smart to always scroll back through your condo each time because if we cross post, you can miss instructions,
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 - No AM shot

Thanks ladies or should I say "life-savers!"

I gave him 1/2 a can of the Friskies gravy shreds and he licked out all of the gravy and left the shreds. I tried to put more of the Karo in a teaspoon for him to lick but he didn't want it so I rubbed even more on his gums. He is just lying down but he looks more alert than he did pre-test at +4. I didn't notice any weakness, or wabbly walking, just a little spacey and tired looking with lots of blinking.

Thanks Sienne for the low #s link.

Marje - thanks for the info on updating/editing the links as well.

I really appreciate that there is someone here I can get help with.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Katie :lol: :lol: I didn't mean to put up the 911 now :YMHUG: :YMHUG: just in case you need to in the future ;-) so you can practice taking it down. :-D

Ok...here's the thing....it's important that when we give instructions, you read back through and follow them when we are dealing with low numbers. We don't want them eating that much food. If he eats that much and we're dealing with low numbers for a long time, he can get full. Then we have issues.

We also don't want him to skyrocket and then all that food wear off and he come screaming beck down on you. There actually a method to our madness ;-) :-D

When we deal with low numbers, the sequence is test, feed the low numbers, repeat. We call this lather, rinse, repeat.

Could you please test 30 mins after he ate? I will be waiting for your numbers :-D
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Thanks for that laugh Marje... I needed it. I went back and fixed it. If only it were that easy to keep all of this info in a mental rolodex that I could access in my brain on command. I feel so fragile and don't quite know what I'm doing yet. I'll remember to take the advise dispensed. I'll chalk this one up to plain fear and shock. Thanks for not being too hard on me. :smile:

Test at 12:52 came back at 109 and for the moment, all food is off the floor. Should I test him in another hour or before that?
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Let's see.....I seem to have already packed away my wet noodles for tonight :razz: :razz: :razz:

I know those first lower numbers are stressful and scary. We've all been there and I remember what it's like waiting for the clock to tick off 20 or 30 minutes and watching Gracie like a hawk.

I'd let him go an hour but I think he's pretty carbed up.

So, in summary, if you get a number in the 40s, feed 2 tsp of HC gravy only and retest in 20 mins. If he's lower than that, add a drop or two of karo. I find it is helpful if they come up into the 50s after gravy, that you feed a couple tsp of LC to keep them from falling back down. You have to test and make sure they are coming up with no food.

Also...we talk in terms of how many hours since his shot. We are all in different time zones so if you say 12:52, I don't know where that is in his cycle because it was only 9:52 here and I don't know what time you shot. All I know is you are on the east coast. :-D

You're doing super. Just breathe, be calm, focus...you'll be a pro in no time!
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

So I guess my question is, now that I think about it, if I hadn't found this site, known about home testing, etc., and just followed the vets advice of dosing at 1 unit every 12 hours, wouldn't it be possible that I could have killed him tonight. I can't even think about what could have happened if I had given him his dose this morning and tonight without even knowing where his numbers were.

Do I let the vet know about what happened tonight and what the numbers were? I want to keep my vet informed and not leave her out of the loop, but it seems that the advise here is more informative.

Good lord my head is spinning.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Hi Katie, I will be around for another hour or so, so I am more than happy to sit up a bit with you if you need eyes. You're doing great!
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

I know I can't assume anything, but the next time I test him, what kind of numbers should I look for to make sure he'll be ok for the rest of the night? Should I get up every couple hours and test/check him, do I leave food out overnight? The next test I do will be right around +6.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

While symptomatic hypos on lantus are not common, they can and do happen. Sometimes the cats liver kicks in pretty fast and dumps counterregulatory hormones and glucagon to bring up the BG. But my Gracie has been in the 20s with nary a symptom....the heart palpitations were solely mine.

Sometimes cats go really low on the dose and instructions given by the vet that, by some grace of God, the cat does not seize but it's enough to shock the pancreas into working. That's not how I want my cat to go into remission. ;-)

So...it's hard to predict but, yes, Mego could have gone lower without you testing. And yes, he could have hypoed.

The vast majority of us do not rely on our vets for assistance with FD. My vet is very supportive and she is always happy to learn things from me. I am lucky....many vets are offended that clients would take an Internet groups advice over theirs. But we live and breathe FD 24/7 and there is almost always someone around to help in a bind. That's not something vets can or will do.

So, my dear, since I have to work tomorrow, I'm going to go to bed but, as I said, we won't leave you alone. Courtney is going to pop onto to check on you and Mego. Remember that as the HC wears off, numbers can come back down. OR his liver will really react to that 44 and he might zoom way up.

Don't forget to reduce his dose. However...if he is in the 300s or higher tomorrow, you can shoot 1u once in the a.m. Cycle to help minimize the bounce and then take the reduction to .75u tomorrow night. We call this "shooting through the bounce". If he's not sky high, shoot .75u in the morning. If you have any questions, post and ask for help and ask them to read this condo.

You will catch on very fast....you'll be amazed.

Good night and enjoy the wonderful Courtney :-D thanks Courtney.. \M/ \M/
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

It's very difficult to predict what a cat will do on any cycle, even kitties who are pretty consistent and regular can do something unpredictable! The more data you have on Mego, the easier it will be to see tell what he might do. In the beginning, or when you make a dose change, you typically need to test more frequently to see where he is headed.

It's a good idea to get a +2 because that is when insulin usually onsets in most cats, but ECID and it might happen sooner or later. Kismet usually doesn't onset until +3, for example. If the +2 is much higher than the PS shot, you can typically expect a quiet cycle. If it is lower, you will want to monitor closely. If you can set an alarm, that would be wonderful.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Katie, you are doing super! Nothing like a baptism by fire right at the start. I'm on the west coast with a dropping kitty, so I'll be up for a couple of hours yet too.

Let's see where that +6 test is and go from there. Depending on where the +6 is and when you last fed him, you might be able to just leave out some food and call it a night.

How long ago did Mego last eat food? He got karo at +4, when was the Friskies with gravy finished? Is this summary about right?:

PMPS 135
+2 102
+4 44 tsp karo and 1/2 can Friskies gravy
+4.75 87
+5 pulled food
+5.5 109

ETA: did some corrections above
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Ok, I'm feeling much better now. Test at +6.5 was 153. So with that number I'm feeling more comfortable going to bed. How long do you think I should wait to test him again? 2hours, 3 hours? It will be interesting to see what his AMPS will be tomorrow. And thanks again Courtney for keeping an eye on me and Mego.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Just to verify, the last two readings are not food influenced? I think you should be fine to go to sleep. Generally, after two rising numbers, we wait an hour and test again. I know it's late for you (I am EST, too) but if you can set an alarm for an hour, it wouldn't be terrible idea. If not, I think Mego will be fine.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

If you want more peace of mind, you can always leave a bit of his regular low carb food out to nibble on. If you did want to test him again, I agree with Courtney that you could test in one hour, then probably call it a night.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Katie & Mego said:
Do I let the vet know about what happened tonight and what the numbers were? I want to keep my vet informed and not leave her out of the loop, but it seems that the advise here is more informative.
Click to expand...

I think it is advisable to keep your vet abreast of what is going on with Mego, and try to work with them rather than against them. My first vet didn't approve of home testing, started Kismet out on 3units :shock: and had me feeding dry food. When I told her that I was testing, reduced the dose, and changed the diet, she was not a happy camper, so I ended up going to another vet who was willing to work with me. It can be frustrating, but you really do want to work with the vet, and if that's not possible, then consider finding a new one. Since you are keeping record of his BGs, you have real time data that is better than any fructosamine that the vet can run (not to mention the money it will save you.) By being data ready, you can show your vet and justify the choices you make regarding Mego's treatment. Since you had very low numbers, this will hopefully open your vet's eyes to the importance of HT.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Wendy & Courtney,

Your graph looks good Wendy, but I'll be honest, as a first timer with a number this low - everything is a bit of a blur. I tried to keep written records/updating SS as I could while having 2 eyes glued to him at all times. The 87 is definitely all karo and the 109 could have some gravy influence as well, but the 153 is no food for about an hour and a half. He's sleeping now and looks comfortable. I will probably head to bed at this point and set an alarm to test again in about 1-1.5 hours. Yay me! Just for comforts sake, I will leave out some of his low carb food.
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Hi Katie, sounds like a good plan. Get some rest! You deserve it. I'm off to bed now, too. Night!
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

Thanks for the advise about talking with the vet. I didn't get the sense she was opposed to home testing but I do have a feeling she will be surprised at the numbers when I call her tomorrow. And by the way, Mego is snoring like a champ right now and I love that about him. He must be feeling pretty good and relaxed. I'm off to bed to TRY and sleep, we'll see how successful that is. Thanks again for your help and I hope your night goes smoother than mine. Learning step by step...
 
Re: 3/19 Mego PMPS 135 +2 102 +4 44 Only Day 2

I'll see you in an hour or so Katie. Neko just gave me a 48 so I'm doing this dance for a while yet.

PMPS 135
+2 102
+4 44 tsp karo and 1/2 can Friskies gravy
+4.75 87
+5 pulled food
+5.5 109
+6.5 153

When you get a chance Katie, could you add your latest numbers to the subject line of your first posting. If you run out of room for them all, just keep the PMPS #, the +4 44, then some of the later ones. There are people here scanning the board who will rest easier seeing that Mego is now rising.
 
Got it, I just posted whole hours to make it easier. I'll see you in a bit and I hope things come up for you too. Hopefully we'll both have good news when we circle back around.
 
Hi Katie, when you've got time - tomorrow, make sure you read back through this condo. There was lots of good information posted and it's good to reread when you are fresh. It's a lot to take in so soon. I didn't get my first green for months, so I had the luxury of time to learn. Also read other people's condo's, especially ones where you see there cat is going low. You'll learn a lot from them.

Regarding your vet, you might want to go prepared. There is the Roomp/Rand study, that contains the dosing protocol we use here. If you give that to your vet, she might feel better than you are following proven research, and may even want to learn more.
 
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