3/18 Max amps 321--weight question

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Mindy & Max

Mindy & Max

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Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9421

Well Max did really well yesterday and stayed in the 200s. This morning he was back up to 321 tho. :-( But he normally seems to be high in the morning anyway. And he was begging to go outside last night again, which was cute, but I felt bad because we didn't have time to take the kitties outside. Max is great and will just lay in the grass on the other side of the sidewalk, but Truman has to be in a harness/leash because he'll hightail it over to the empty lots with the tall grass and get lost.

Truman is definitely seeming to be jealous of the attention Max is getting with testing. Not that I think I want to try testing Truman just to make up for it. I'm actually afraid Truman might bite if I do that--he likes to bite while playing, and can break my skin easily. I've now had to shoo Truman down off the ledge where Max gets tested and they get fed because he's swatted at Max a few times while I'm trying to get him to settle for a test. Truman is, however, getting plenty of attention at other times--he just seems to be jealous of the tests!
 
Re: 3/18 Max amps 321

Oh, and I forgot to mention...

I don't own a scale, so I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet money that Max has gained some weight back (a pound or two?). He's definitely not feeling as bony as he did when we got his diagnosis. At that point, he was down to 10.1lbs...had been around 16lbs prior to all the vomit issues.

His coat is much improved, which I attribute to the wet food, but I guess I didn't really expect him to gain some weight back until the sugar was under control. Is it normal for them to gain weight when they still have high sugar? The wet food he's been getting up until yesterday was on the lower fat end in addition to being low carb. He's also not shedding like he used to--is this from the diabetes or the food change?
 
Re: 3/18 Max amps 321

Mindy & Max said:
His coat is much improved, which I attribute to the wet food, but I guess I didn't really expect him to gain some weight back until the sugar was under control. Is it normal for them to gain weight when they still have high sugar? The wet food he's been getting up until yesterday was on the lower fat end in addition to being low carb. He's also not shedding like he used to--is this from the diabetes or the food change?
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I don't know if it's normal.. but Nova developed diabetes pretty much at the tail end of a 2 year diet to get her weight down.. we tested frequently the whole way once the diet started working.. and only once she was a normal weight did diabetes enter the picture. Anyways, as soon as I started giving insulin, she fattened up.. 6 months later, she's gained back every single ounce that we worked so hard for 2 years to drop.. she's fat, huge, overweight, obese.. you name it. Weight gain before regulation is sure possible.. sigh.
 
I don't have a definitive answer about the weight issue. Obviously, Dawn's experience with Nova tells one part of the story. I do think that once diet is addressed (i.e., LC) and you start giving insulin, your cat is going to be in better shape nutritionally. Max hasn't been diabetic all that long. We don't know how long his BG may have been elevated prior to his diagnosis but even with being generous, it's not been an overly long time. Once you started him on insulin, more of what he is eating is getting into his cells so he's nutritionally more stable and better able to make use of what you're feeding him. So from that perspective, he may gain back some of his weight.

Some of changes in coat texture is also due to canned food containing more moisture than dry. Cats do not drink water as readily as dogs. It's one of the many reasons that a wet food diet is preferable for cats -- it keeps them better hydrated. I also add water to my guys food.

As for Truman, I'd pick him up, put him on the test spot, and give him some hugs and a treat. We don't want him to feel left out. Gizmo will wait almost patiently for me to finish testing Gabby because he knows he gets treats, too. It's really funny what they expect. I'm trying to train Gizmo to use the scratching posts vs. the furniture. He gets treats for using the posts. If Gabby hears me praising Gizmo, and I suspect she hears the treat bag being opened, she strolls right out there and waits to get treats, too. Favoritism and/or unequal amounts of attention is just not allowed!!
 
Magnolia had lost over 2 pounds before her fd diagnosis, she went from 10.5 to 7.7. She didn't gain it all back very quickly, but she is finally back to her normal weight, and then some. I agree with Sienne, as the diet and fd are becoming controlled, the nutrients in the food can go where they are needed. Magnolia's coat definitely improved with her numbers. The lower her numbers went, the softer and shinier it got! So I think these things with Max, are very good signs, even though his numbers aren't quite there yet.

I went out and bought an inexpensive scale so that I could keep track of Magnolia's weight. Even though it's not completely accurate, I can at least get an idea of where she is. Gaining the weight back too quickly (more than 1-2% body weight in a week) may lead to other complications, so it may be something to keep an eye on, if you can.

http://www.catinfo.org/ has lots of info about weight and links to other sites you may find helpful.
 
For my kitty, since he's been OTJ, I weigh him every so often to make sure he doesn't gain too much. Once your kitty is regulated it is important to know how much to feed him so he won't be getting more calories than he needs. I have a baby scale that I use to check his weight.

Dr. Lisa has a formula to help you figure out the amount of calories per day.

  • "Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

    Most female cats should weigh a nice, lean 10 -11 pounds. Most male cats should fall into the 11 -13 pound range."

You do have to know or figure out what your cat's idea weight should be to use the above formula.

edited to put in quotes. :-D
 
Ah ha! I AM feeding them too much. I don't remember where I saw it, but I was using a different formula for estimating calories...oh, and I was estimating. LOL. I'm an idiot. :lol: I was figuring about 550 cals/day for both boys, which may be too much, but then again, Max DID need to gain some. He's probably not where he should be yet, but I think he's getting close. My estimate is that he should be around 12lbs, based on where he was years ago before I started being told to get his weight down (and clearly failed). According the Dr. Lisa's formula and calories listed on Janet & Binky's website, I'm probably feeding them about 70-100 calories too much. Doh! That's good news for my budget, but they always seem sooooooo hungry at feeding time!
 
Sorry, got interrupted (and I am at work, so technically should be you know, working). :-D

Truman DOES get treats every time Max gets treats for testing. The only time I've not given treats for a test is the last one before bed because Max is usually sleeping on a chair and just lets me do it without a fuss. Guinness also gets treats--general rule is that when any one of the three gets a treat, they ALL get one. And I do try to give Truman cuddles like I do to Max before a test when he's in the testing spot, which is why it seems so funny that he's jealous about a poke--but I guess he doesn't realize that's what is happening.

And I've also found it funny that they all think their name is Max now. Every time I call Max for a test (and he almost always obliges at this point), all three come running. The power of the almighty treat! :lol:
 
whoa! That's allotta' foods. hee, hee! But when kitties aren't regulated it is understandable, they need more food... as much as they want.
But maybe soon it will be time to reassess what Max needs.

My kitty is a male Maine Coon and weighs around 16.5 lbs. I give him 300 calories a day - some of which he doesn't finish, so it works out just right. (He is OTJ now... but before he was regulated I gave him lots of food.)
 
Mindy & Max said:
And I've also found it funny that they all think their name is Max now. Every time I call Max for a test (and he almost always obliges at this point), all three come running. The power of the almighty treat! :lol:
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Two kitties and the dog come running? Hahaha! Just wait, next your kids will come running too, hee, hee!
 
Umm.....

I'd point out that CD's guidelines do not take breed (or combo breed) standards into account. Gizmo is a Norwegian Forest Cat. The standard for males is roughly 16 - 18 lbs. Maine Coons are bigger. So, there are those kitties who are big boned or just BIG cats. (Gizmo is a year old and weighs 12 lbs -- Gabby's weight. He will reach maturity in 4 more years. He will be huge!)

Until Max is regulated, if hes hungry, feed him! Well, within limits, feed him.
 
Not my guidelines... Dr. Lisa Pierson's formula and her comments regarding 'most' kitties.

In later post I put BigMac in as example of a bigger breed, but didn't explain that, sorry. The formula works for all breeds if you know the ideal weight... whatever it is.
 
Sorry, I should clarify--550 calories total (not each) for both boys. :-D Truman should be around 11lbs, and Max, I estimate, should be around 12. I was going off of an estimate that said 20-30 cals/lb/day and using 25 cals as a starting figure. As they've only ever had dry food up until a few weeks ago, I had no idea how much to feed, and they seemed like they were starving with just one can in the am and another in the pm. I've been feeding 1 can plus 1 pouch of Friskies each morning and again each evening. They wolf it down and leave nothing behind, tho when the pile gets low, Truman walks away until Max is done, usually. He doesn't like to fight for his food.

And yes, I've been trying to make sure in particular that Max isn't getting pushed out of the food bowl. Any time I've been cutting up raw chicken I've given him some, which he willingly inhales. Truman turns his nose up at it--but he's also not losing weight, so I'm not too worried about him.

Oh, and I love it that your cat's name is Big Mac! :smile:
 
Sorry, I should clarify--550 calories total (not each) for both boys. :-D
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THAT makes a big difference! Whew! I get it now, I thought your kitties were REALLY hungry and were eating you out of house and home! :lol:

BigMac says hi to Big Max!
 
Before magnolia got regulated, and before I knew about that calorie calculator, she was eating almost 400 calories a day!! She was so hungry, constantly begging for food and meowing incessantly. Basically, she drove us crazy until we gave in and fed her. But once the fd came under control, her appetite decreased dramatically. It sounds like you are pretty close with your calories, so you can probably keep up your current plan. At least until he's regulated.
 
good conversation in here. :smile:

I'm curious where Max went for PMPS, looks like he is trending downward a little maybe.
 
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