3/17 Neko AMPS 484 +3 445?, scary last 2 days

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Wendy&Neko

Wendy&Neko

Member Since 2012
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On Tuesday I got a new ReliOn meter to replace the Freestyle. If you look at my spreadsheet you can see that the numbers are way higher now. I also bought a Bayer Confirm as I'm now paranoid and did a test on the same blood for both. It was a little bit lower than the ReliOn for the last reading but not bad.

On the night of the 15th I tried going up to 2.5 units, as the numbers seem still really high and the vet had suggested I go to 2.5. I did try 2.25 first and the vet hasn't even seen the numbers with the new meter. I'll drop those off this weekend and that'll be a surprise! I did warn her the numbers would be higher. Anyway, on the night of the 15th by usually hungry cat got even hungrier and crying for food well after her 11PM snack. On a hunch I tested her and got a 109 (6.1) which is probably the lowest she's been for at least 3 months. She had been in the 400's during the day. I fed her snacks, including some 10% carb dry food and some Petromalt and the test 30 minutes later showed her coming up, so I decided I could go to bed.

Next day we swing up to over 500 in the morning and settling down a little by PMPS. I went back to 2.25 units.

Neko had almost two months on Caninsulin - up to 5 units and a nadir test there was in the 170-180 range. I'm guessing her body was reacting to the low numbers, although they aren't too low, just a lot lower than what she is used to.

Any advice on where to go next? I'm afraid to go up to 2.5 with those wild swings.
 
Re: 3/17 Neko AMPS 484 +3 445, scary last 2 days

hi wendy! welcome to Lantus Land!

we have another new member who just switched a few weeks ago from caninsulin to lantus and has had an absolutely fabulous result. look for "kitty" and the member's name is "worldtraveller" and take a look at Kitty's spreadsheet to see how their transition has been.

i just switched punkin from the cursed freestyle lite to a relion confirm as well. it's horrible isn't it? i thought his highs were around 250, not great but not as bad as it could be. the first night i got the relion, his pmps was 256 on the freestyle lite and 400 on the confirm. ohmygod_smile

so we changed to a horrible spreadsheet full of bounces too. i thought punkin was a flat cat - turns out we just had a flat meter that doesn't read accurately. there have been 8-10 of us here with that same experience. all i can say is you just march on.

was that 45 on the 14th at pmps accurate?
 
Re: 3/17 Neko AMPS 484 +3 445, scary last 2 days

i think Neko is in need of a dose reduction. i also see the 36 on 3/11 with a 2.25u - is that also right?

could you tell us a little bit more about him?

what food is he on? is it 100% canned low carb, and if so, how long has he been eating that way?

is he on a schedule - if so, about how much and what is the schedule?

does he eat any dry food at all?

i think the high numbers you are seeing are not indicting his need for more insulin, but instead indicating that he is bouncing from having hit low numbers. a cat's liver will react to a low number by letting loose a flood of sugar and counter-regulatory hormones. it's a mechanism to save the cat's life and it's very effective. yay for the liver! but i think that's what's happening here.

i'll get some others to look at Neko's situation as well. let us know these answers and we'll give you a hand on where to go next.

edited to correct an error.
 
Re: 3/17 Neko AMPS 484 +3 445, scary last 2 days

Hi Wendy, welcome to Lantus Land. There is a lot of expertise here to help you figure out the best care for Neko.
Liz, Zener's other mom
 
Re: 3/17 Neko AMPS 484 +3 445, scary last 2 days

Hi, Wendy -yes, the high numbers are scary and terrible. The wise ones on the board will help you get Neko on track with the right food and dosing. Try not to worry; you're in good hands here. :YMHUG:

If you put a ? in your subject line, more eyes will see and respond to your post.
 
Re: 3/17 Neko AMPS 484 +3 445, scary last 2 days

Welcome to Lantus Land.

Julie has given you some good information. Right now, I think it will be helpful it you take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the board. In particular, the New to the Group and the Tight Regulation Protocol stickies will help to get your oriented.

There are a couple of important differences between Lantus and Cannisulin that you need to be aware of.
  • Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on the pre-shot value.
  • Because doses are based on the nadir, it's important to get pre-shot tests so you know that it's safe to shoot and to get at least one test during both the AM and PM cycles.
  • Lantus is a long acting insulin and its effects are cumulative. This is what gives Lantus its duration.
  • Because of the above point, you will get the best results with Lantus if you are consistent with the amount you shoot the time you shoot. Other than your initial dose which needs 5 - 7 days to settle, any dose change needs 3 days to stabilize. Shots need to be as close to 12 hours apart as you can manage.

Is there a chance that the 45 at PMPS on 3/14 was a bad test? The jump from 391 at +8 to the 45 at PMPS and then a 362 at +1 is a huge swing. It just makes me wonder whether you had a bad strip or a bad test. Regardless, I agree with Julie that Neko is bouncing. It looks like his liver panicked at those blue numbers the other evening.
 
Hello again - thanks for all the great advice. I have read all the stickies before and slowly reading a second time for it to sink in.

I think the low number on the 14th was indeed a bean error in the testing procedure. I think I "double dipped" the blood instead of all in one go. I tested again after dinner, 1/2 hour later and it was all the way up to 362.

A bit more about Neko. She is 11 years old, currently weighing in at 13.0 lbs. 5 years ago she was 15.5 lbs so we have been slowly losing a bit a weight. Two weeks ago she was 12.8 and I was glad to see her sneak up a bit.

She is being fed raw food now. Breakfast is all one go, but dinner is spread out between 6:00, 8:00, and 11:00 pm. At the beginning of the insulin diagnosis she was getting 1/2 dry (the dreaded no grain low calorie food), 1/2 wet food. I slowly reduced the dry food so that at the beginning of the spreadsheet she was down to 1/2 Tb of dry a meal, then all wet, and then to 100% raw as of a week ago. She gets freeze dried chicken or salmon as snacks throughout the day as blood test treats.

Neko gets her shots at 8:15 (am and pm). Occasionally that may change up to 15 minutes but other than the time change last weekend I've been pretty good at following the schedule. I am trying to get a blood test before each meal/injection, and am slowly getting more able to do that. As a person who used to faint at the sight of blood and even remember fainting in elementary school when we talked about it, I've come a long way.
 
Thanks for the info on Neko. When you have a chance, you may want to complete a Profile and attach it to your signature. That way, you won't have to keep answering our incessant questions. I can't find my link to the instructions. I'll ask Marje to stop by with the info.

Ummm..... There are ways to counteract the vasovagal response that causes you to faint from blood and needles.
 
Hi Wendy!! Welcome to Lantus Land!!

Just popping in at Sienne's request to give you the link to setting up a profile. There appear to be alot of steps but I just broke it down to make it easier to follow. If you have ANY problems, please PM me and I'll
help you get it set up...only takes a little bit of time to help out and I'm happy to do it.

Creating a Profile
 
Thanks Marjorie. Your description of creating a profile was easier than the one that's on the sticky of the Tech pages.
 
Hi Wendy and Neko,
We're just dropping by to welcome you to Lantus Land. We ditched our FreeStyleLite meter in January and are very glad we did. Although Rusty usually has low numbers and the difference between the FreeStyle and other meters is not very much in the lower range, on those occasions when his numbers are higher, it is good to know that they are as high as they are (the FreeStyleLite gives you a false sense of security).

You sound like you are making a good effort to follow the protocol. You will find, as the others have said, that consistency is the key to success with Lantus. Those high numbers look like bounces, so keep in mind that it can take up to 72 hours to clear a bounce. Do you feed Neko's breakfast all at once because of your work schedule? You might consider getting an auto feeder. Many people here rely on them and kitties with diabetes often do best when their meals are spread out in smaller increments during the first part of the cycle. The CatMate C-20, two-compartment feeder comes with a cold block to help keep the wet food cool.
http://www.kvsupply.com/KVVet/produ...fcode=Google&gclid=CPPKl5TggK0CFQPe4AodyQrLTw
It is widely available from many suppliers.

Welcome again,

Ella & Rusty
 
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