3/17 Latte AMPS-354 , PMPS~242 (Vet Update-verra long!)

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carolynandlatte

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Good Morning LL!
I tried to squeeze in a post last night, but ended up on the phone with an old friend for a long time (which was nice).

Latte is very intuitive and knows exactly when to pull it together, or at least give me a sign that she is still ready to be here. I was not thinking it was 'time', but I was feeling sad about the changes I've seen over the last few months and fearful of how much closer she is getting. Add her vet's optimism, and I felt a little better. Of course her BG dropped to a decent number when we returned, and she spent the entire evening getting up to eat every hour or so (unfortunately it was kibble). This was a very good sign.

I had a long list of topics to discuss, with the main goal of walking out of there with more tools to help her feel more comfortable as the days, weeks, or months progress.

FD:
He has not looked at her ss for a while, and agreed to do so. He admitted that at this point I know a lot more about it than him (at the very least with her case), and he might not be of much help. He only cautioned me of raising her doses too quickly...which we all know I am often too slow to raise. He did think when I was ready, it might make sense to split the pred dose to see if it will even out her cycles. I have to wait until I know my schedule can be somewhat consistent next month before I do this. We talked about possibly needing to miss shots in the upcoming month, in which he reassured me she would probably be okay. She would need to be consistantly sitting in high numbers for a very long time to develop the ketones. He did say she will probably be more prone to a UTI, and to keep tabs on that.

He also agreed that she did not need to be really low. When I described how she was acting the last time she was in the 50's, he said they were likely symptoms of hypo. And why, when she was not 'that' low, or why when she has been that low before was she showing them on that day - he had no explanation. Just, be careful.

Kidneys:
Did not do any blood work, because there is nothing more I could be doing for her (other than renal diet - which I scoffed at :lol: ), and would end up feeling more depressed about the situation if things were getting worse. If she was at a life threatening point, we would both know without blood work. Since there are not obvious signs...only subtle (which could be related to anything), than they were not worth doing at this point.

Metabolic Acidosis:
We will wait to do these tests a little longer...see reasoning below.

Breathing Issues:
He could hear the sounds I was concerned about. he said wheezing/crackling when breathing in could be one of many things. Cancer is a possibility, though its usually accompanied with discharge - something she does not have. it could also be allergies. Its just something for us to be aware of and keep an eye on to see if she shows discomfort or distress with her breathing. Heart rate was good.

Pred and other Med tweaks:
At this time, he felt her vomiting has reduced enough and her weight (see below) is good enough that it would be unneccesary to make any changes (increases).

General Exam:
Good for her, except obvious pain she is having in her hips. At first he could not tell if she was just stiff, but as she relaxed he said she was in pain. :cry: I dont know how he can physically 'feel' she is in pain, but he said one hip in particular was worse than the other...and that is the side she was limping on the other day. I had never told him which side. I am going to start the bup. with her tomorrow, when I can be home all day and the clinic will be open for 12 hrs. I have injections of .3ml. He told me I can give half, if I felt more comfortable. It just means it would last a shorter duration. I will start with half the dose. One thing I fear, other than a severe toxic reaction (because Im paranoid of pain meds), is having a cat whose personality is changed to a lump on a log 24/7, just to decrease their pain. I hope it does not change her so much that she cant be herself.

Her vet was ecstatic about her weight. This is a cat that has been hard to keep above 7lbs for quite a few years. She was 9.6 on the richter scale :lol:. This is the highest recorded weight for her - ever! In fact, he said if she came in and he knew nothing about her, he might recommend she lose a little weight! ohmygod_smile So, she is eating enough. But, he did acknowledge the amount of effort I have to put in to get her to eat and how hard it must be. :YMSIGH: Her body shape is very different - round in the middle and sunken in the rear. I figured as much that it was atrophy, which he confirmed.

They brushed her up and cleaned her off in the back. This is something she cant do, and I practically get attacked for trying because its so painful for her. When she pees lately she kind of sits her butt on the edge of the litter box, so she gets wet. There is some brushing out of mats that could be done, as well as clipping of her back claws (all things she wont let me do), which we will wait on after we see what the pain meds do for her. Maybe once she is in less pain it will be easier to do. It might require a little shaving and a fresh start. *sigh*

So, any labs or other concerns will be addressed AFTER we see if we can manage her pain. A lot of things could change - her pH could be okay, and the pain could be the cause of her lethargy/recent vomiting/need for appy stim. She might be able to clean herself better, or pee the 'right' way so she doesnt get icky, her BG's could get a little better, etc.

Im hopeful, but nervous (about the pain meds). I know in my heart that we are now at that point where it HAS to be done. Tomorrow is the day I have been dreading since I gave the metacam. I know this is a completely different medication, but....the association of pain meds/life threatening reactions cannot be shaken.

Its a late start for me today, but my work will take me into the very weeeeee hrs of the a.m. I will try to check in some time tomorrow and let you know how she is reacting to the bup. Though I wonder if I will know the difference between her being 'hungover' from the big party at Pats tonight, or the drug! ;-)

last condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9287
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Sounds like you got a great vet report for your Latte hope things continue to go well for her and wow what a weight gain :RAHCAT
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

This sounds like a good vet visit. You do put in a huge effort daily to get Latte to eat and it has paid off. I do hope you see some positive changes as a result of the bupe. You do an incredible job juggling all of Latte's health issues.
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Considering, Latte got a good report!! Could always be worse!! Glad to hear it!
Keep doing well Latte :mrgreen:
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Wow. I can tell you having you bupe for the first time, it really isn't a bad drug at all. The dose I gave Maui was .5 (per the dentist) and she definitely was zoned out. Her last dose I split in half and gave BID and that seemed to take the edge of pain off, yet not put her in that zone out stage.

I realize you are doing pain control for Latte, but I'm wondering if you gave her (and you can get it in treat form) - MSM, glucosamine, chrondoitin vitamins if this may help her hip pain. I have been giving it in pill form to Syd for years and it improves her mobility. I recently discovered the treat forms and she loves it and doesn't realize it's good for her. All she knows is that I don't pill her any longer.

Catswell makes Happy Hips (no MSM) - it's a chicken jerky type of treat and FD friendly. Happy Hips

Pet Naturals of Vermont makes hip and joint treats: Pet Naturals- The only caveat, it contains brewers yeast and a sugar type product.

These supplements won't interfere with anything you are doing and may be another way to help her feel a little better.
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Your vet seems very sensible and we hope that the recommendations you got will help Latte. She's a brave old gal and she'll do as well as she can. Stu will keep a watchful eye on her at the party tonight. He's partial to old ladies!

Ella & Stu
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Good morning Carolyn. It sounds like a pretty good vet report, to me. Glad to see that Latte has gained some weight...your hard work and preserverence has really paid off!!

O'Spottie wanted me to tell you to tell Latte that he is looking forward to seeing her at the bash tonight. He has his zippy pants, bow tie, top hat, and dancing shoes all ready!! He said that he knows she may not be able to dance to much, if at all, but he's got all kinds of stories that he can sit and chat with her about.
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

I'm glad to hear you left the vet feeling a little more optimistic. It is always hard to see our babies aging. Keep up the good work you two!
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Carolyn---I am so happy to hear that Latte is telling you it is not time!!! Good luck with the bupe, I can imagine how you must feel after Metacam. I hope that the half dose will help her with the pain and allow her to use the LB without messing herself so much.

You are such a wonderful mommabean and Latte is so special. You are a great team. Please give her some scritches for me and a big hug to you!!! :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Carolyn - that is a big sigh of relief to read this morning.
I am so happy to hear that the vet trip and report went well and that Latte
put on some weight.
That is great news.
Hoping that the past few days were just a minor bump in the road on your
journey with Lattee.
Max is so excited to see her at the party.
Hugs to you guys.
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Hi Carolyn,
Great news about Latte not having lost any weight. That's always a good sign.
About the bupe...don't be scared. I was also nervous about giving it to Alex and for no reason. It was basically to see if he was in pain and I still really don't know if he is in pain...but I have given him .1 ml several times now and the only time it really zoned him out was the first time. After that he has been himself, just more mellow. Jumping on counters, vocalizing what he wants; etc. And when it comes to testing, he just sits an purrs vs the whining he often does when he doesn't feel like being poked.

You very well may be able to do things like clean Latte better when she is on bupe. It can just take the edge off without making her zombie-like which Is what I think you're afraid of. From what I've seen, if it was me, *I'd* want it :)

Good report...and...Alex is looking forward to meeting Latte tonight at the party :)

Caryl
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Latte a chubby girl :lol: Guess all that hard work is paying off. I hope the bupe works well for her and lets her be more comfortable without being zoned. You are a good mama!
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Good report! More weight, also good!

Shadoe says to tell Latte that bupe is good, very, very good, and that she really liked it.
I did not know that Shadoe could purr that loud! She definitely felt better with it.
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Glad you had a good and thorough vet visit. I was going to ask about supplements for arthritis discomfort, as Hilary already suggested. Have you considered adequan injections?
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

(((Carolyn and Latte))) I hope the pain management goes well for you. Then perhaps some of the other issues can be easier to deal with.
Warm thoughts to you both.
 
Re: 3/17 Latte AMPS-354 (Vet Update-verra long!)

Good luck with everything Carolyn! Morris was on bupe for 14 days during his p~itis flare last month. He was getting .2ml BID orally (just a little squirt into his cheek pocket)....not sure if the dosing is different for injectable. I can tell you that Morris had no ill effects from the .2ml.....when I heard it was an opiate, I was a little concerned at first myself. However, Morris is a challenging guy & getting it into the 'correct' spot was a challenge on several occaisions! LOL! Next time, if there is a next time, I will be asking my vet to give it to us in the injectable form....MUCH easier for both Morris & I that way! :lol:

Will watch for your posts later today or tomorrow to find out how Latte is doing!
 
sounds like latte's appt went well.

bup is a very safe drug. i had a long talk with my vet about that when Winnie first started bup.
I know latte has had such bad experiences with meds it is a little scary to add something new. It will be ok. I'm betting she will feel better and eat better on it.

did i read right that you are going to inject it? it can also be given orally -- bwt cheek and gum or under tongue if that is easier. It gets absorbed in the oral mucosa ( channeling jojo)
If you decide to give a lower dose ( which I think is fine -- I did the same ) and it doesn't seem to do much. You can give more and not wait til the next dose time. I have done that. To note I have only used it orally and I know w/i 15 minutes if I dosed enough based on response. It works very fast.
Not sure if subQ is the same. anybody??

Please give me a heads up when you decide to start to split the pred . I want to make sure I don't miss it.
personally, I would give the full evening dose. then the next morning start with the split. ( if you start w/ pm dose as the split then her system has less to work on to start and may make her not feel good, kwim? ) yes it will make her numbers a little more wacky that day ( oh joy! says carolyn :-D ) But better than having her feel worse that first day/night of split.
Plus -- her numbers may be very wonky for a bit. needs time for the new dose to settle. k? I would not try and immediately chase it w/ the lantus. maybe wait a couple days and see where things end up.
Try and be patient for the cycles to even out. I will try and dig up some curves on dose splits..... not sure if in profile BGs ....

Keep us posted !
 
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