3/17 Eleanor PMPS 297 +5 87 +5.5 101 QUESTION

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Julie and Eleanor (GA)

Julie and Eleanor (GA)

Member Since 2012
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=66324

The 87 was pretty scary, after I shot her I wondered if I should have reduced her dose since she hasn't been eating well. But she ate pretty well at shot and at +2, and I heard her in the food bowl at +3 (I should have known something bg-wise was going on if she was eating on her own!) so I figured she was okay. I did mean to test her at +4 but went to sleep and didn't wake up.
I'm following SLGS, this isn't an exact quote but:
When lowest point in a cycle is below 90, decrease dose by half on the first cycle following a number below 90.
Click to expand...
Should I?
She's acting weird right now, she's way quieter than usual.
 
I can't answer your question, Julie, but 101 is a safe number. She's doing well now. I'm sure someone else will be along with an answer for your dosing question.
 
Actually, what you quoted isn't quite correct.
[url=http://binkyspage.tripod.com/SLGS.html:2i71ctar][b:2i71ctar]SLGS Protocol[/b][/url] said:
Step 3. After 1-2 weeks at a given dose, you or your vet should perform a serial blood glucose curve (blood glucose tests every 2 hours, starting at shot time and continuing until the next shot). Follow the cat’s normal feeding schedule during the curve. The curve should be evaluated by someone experienced at interpreting feline blood glucose curves, in order to check for signs of rebound and other possible problems. If no rebound is present, follow these guidelines for dose adjustment (smaller adjustments may be appropriate for cats on PZI or Lantus):

a) If the lowest point of the curve is above 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
b) If the lowest point of the curve is between 90 and 149 mg/dl (5.0 and 8.2 mmol/L), keep the dose the same.
c) If the lowest point of the curve is below 90 mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.5 unit.
Click to expand...
With Lantus, the dose reduction is by 0.25u. If you were to reduce the dose by 50%, the reduction would never hold. (Just think what would happen if a cat was on a 5.0 dose.) Looking at Eleanor's SS, I don't know that I'd reduce the dose. If this were my cat, I'd be considering increasing given that there's not much blue or green.

I'm curious as to why you don't want to follow Tight Regulation. It looks like you're able to get tests. If Eleanor is eating low carb, canned food, you would be in good shape to follow TR.
 
Yeah, I have a printout of your quote, what I quoted was something I copied down after my printer died, guess I copied it wrong. Sorry.
I'm not following TR due to my own health reasons and inability to go without sleep.
Guess I should move to the Relaxed forum.
 
There's no need to move to Relaxed. There are several people here who are following SLGS. All that we ask it that you put a note in your signature line that indicates you're using SLGS so we don't keep giving you TR-based feedback (which you did and I didn't notice it -- sorry!!) The advantage of posting here is that there's usually someone around 24/7.

I gotta tell you, though, you're getting at least one test in the PM cycle. That's all we ask for. No matter what protocol you follow, if your cat is in low numbers at night, I suspect you're going to stay up to keep her safe.

It's entirely your choice which protocol you follow and where you post. It was more my curiosity (and not seeing the note in your sig line) that prompted me to ask. With how you're testing, you can choose which protocol you want to follow or you can try one and if it doesn't suit you, try the other.
 
No problem. The note in my sig line is awfully far down, isn't it. It should be first.
I've been thinking I should move to Relaxed and quit bothering you guys. Just that there seem to be so few people posting there, not to mention that I'm quite fond of the folks here.
I'm so worried about Eleanor's eating problems, so tired and discouraged, I don't really know what to do about anything.
 
Don't worry about where you post. Where ever you are comfortable is where you should post. We'll do our best to help. :YMHUG:

The way I interpret SLGS is pretty simple. If the nadirs are hitting where you want them, hold the dose. If the nadirs start getting lower than you want, reduce the dose a little bit. Then you wait and see if the other numbers (preshots) come down too. Overall the goal is to get her to where she is below renal threshhold most of the time (that is usually in the neighborhood of 200-250, depending on the cat). It takes time to get there, though.

I think it's great that she is starting to hit green pretty regularly, but it's not low green so I would be inclined to hold the dose and see if the preshots start to come down too. Lots of times, the preshots will start to come down on their own. If they don't, you can always increase the dose a little bit, but of course that will usually make the mid-cycle numbers come down too so you have to be ok with that.
 
(((Julie)))

I'm not sure I'm remembering what the story is with Eleanor and food. Could you give the condensed version and let's see what we can do to brainstorm?
 
Julie, if you are comfortable here, then please stay. There is a lot of activity in LL and there are lots of cheerleaders and experts to help you out. I would make the SLGS a little more prominent in your signature and maybe put that in your condo once in a while to remind people what you're doing. FD can be very discouraging and we need all the help we can get. I really don't know how we could have done this without this board.
Liz
 
She is barely eating. She always just picked at her food, until shortly before her Dx, when she had become a pig.
After starting the lantus she eventually started picking again, which I thought was a good sign, but now she's to the point of turning her nose up when I feed her. Once in awhile she will eat a few bites on her own. I'm syringe feeding her because it's the only way to get it into her. I've been giving her Pepcid.
I've tried oregano, parmesan cheese...raising her bowl (it helped the first couple times), making a mountain out of her food, adding water...
Right now I'm worried sick she has ketones, she got so elusive I couldn't get her pee with a ladle, so I tried aquarium gravel in the litter box, so she's peeing under the bed.
She's playing and grooming. Or she has been, right now she's being really quiet.
 
aw, don't EVER feel like you're bothering anybody! this is what we all do - and all of us have had cats in the same boat. we understand how worrisome it is when they aren't acting like they feel good. there are a number of women in LL right now (probably 5 or 6 regular posters at least) who also have health problems that make it difficult to get tests at night, so you have a lot of company.

so she peed under your bed because she didn't like the gravel in her box? silly kitter. they don't want changes, do they?

i haven't tested punkin a lot for ketones, but when i have, i used a second box that i made by putting a box lid into a garbage bag and putting the gravel in that. i put him in the laundry room with that box after he ate dinner.

this might be completely off-base, but your comment about her eating better when you lifted the dish up sparked a thought - i wonder if she has arthritis and it hurts to eat. cosequin is great for arthritis - i could definitely see a difference in punkin and i didn't even know he had it. i saw something that said a majority of cats over the age of 7 have arthritis. i've bought it from petco locally and also from amazon. wouldn't hurt to try it. it might not be all of the issue, but if it helps at all, it might be worth it.
 
Now I remember!! Julie made the same suggestion I did and you mentioned that you had put Eleanor's bowl on some books.

I think you also mentioned she is toothless. One thing to maybe try is baby food. Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut (I think the Gerber smells better but is a little higher in carbs), as long as the only ingredients are a protein and broth (the Gerber has cornstarch) is fine. You don't want any onions or veggies in the mix. Most cats like baby food. You can use it as a topping or mixed in to Eleanor's food.

FWIW, ketones can occur even with numbers that look like Eleanor's. However, I'd be more concerned if she wasn't eating and if she had an infection. If you're really concerned, it might not hurt to have Eleanor's vet take a look and get labs run. Of course, if she'll let you stalk her to the litter box, that will ease your mind if you can get a ketone test. Nova Max has a promotion running for a free blood ketone meter.
 
Hi Julie, by now I hope you can see we all love to have you stay with us in LL TG. You know my hours and you know you can get in touch anytime, so I hope you will stay. Daphne has arthritis too, and she goes to her bowl and flops down right in front of it. But sometimes I hold it for her. I noticed something with her bowl, she didn't seem to like it if it was small and deep, so I ended up with a small dessert dish, kind of flat, and she does push her food to far away, so I just push it back for her. I leave it out because she is also a picker, and I just pick it up at +10 and +11, and +1 and +2 for her test.

:YMHUG:
 
Hi Julie

Sorry I haven't checked in on you all lately.....

We'd love for you to stay here with us. You are part of the family and we want to help in any way we can. I'm glad to see Eleanor getting some green. I think Libby had some very astute suggestions.

Hope Eleanor feels better....you are doing really well with her.
 
Julie, if you want to try cosaquin, we bought some and are not using it. We can send it to you, we have your address. ;-) just let us know. :YMHUG:
 
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