3/16MaxPMPS= 80 /71+.5=87+1=91++3=91+4=123+5.75=103+7=140

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tiffmaxee

tiffmaxee

Member Since 2013
For the first time I may have given a fur shot. Max moved and I'm just not sure. Of course it's on a dosecrease day. He was meowing at 4 a.m. and then again at 6 a.m. I don't know what's going on but I hope he is okay and did get his insulin. I don't know why this says 6:10 as I posted at 7:10.
Recap of yesterday's numbers:

AMPS 327
+3 313
+6 293
PMPS 263
+3 293

Elise
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS 301

Sorry to hear about the possible fur shot, Elise. I know it's happened to us - we think - several times. It's especially hard for us to know since Jersey is such a bouncy cat. We just have to wait it out. (I'm told that patience pants come in handy here! :-D) You'll get back on track for the next cycle.

Have a great day!
Shelly
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS 301+2.75=282+3.75=161

Thanks Shelly for your reply. It wasn't a fur shot.at least I don't think so. He went down to 161 which is good but do I start giving a higher carb food so he doesn't drop more? Every time Mr. Max drops too much, he bounces. Suggestions on how to prevent this are greatly appreciated. Then i had another thought. What if it was a fur shot and less insulin made him number go down and he has somogyi syndrome after all? Then what do I do? I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I gave him a spoonful of his normal food. I'll check again at +6.

Elise
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS 301+2.75=282+3.75=161

I'm glad it wasn't a fur shot, Elise. That's why they tell us never to give a second shot if we think the first one was a fur shot!

I'm so sorry I can't help you with the feeding/bouncing. Jersey is a bouncy cat, and I still haven't figured out how to slow her down yet. I might recommend changing your original subject line and putting a question in it - e.g., "Do I feed now?" or "How do I prevent the bounce?" to get some more eyes on your condo. The more experienced Lantus users might have some suggestions for you. I'm just too new here to give advice - and I'm struggling with the same issues you have, so I would be terrible at advice giving anyway! :-D

Shelly
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS 301+2.75=282+3.75=161

Hi Shelly. I see we started this journey at about the same time but Max is getting way more insulin. It was suggested I look at other people's ss which I have done but not everybody posts about what they fed and how much. I hope Jersey stops bouncing as well. Take care.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS 301+2.75=282+3.75=161How to stop a bounce?

If you come up with a way to stop kitties from bouncing, please let us all know! The bottom line is that our cats bounce until they don't. Some cat's, like Dyana's J.D., never seem to graduate from Liver Training School. Others, like Davidson, seem like they've skipped a few classes and are graduating with honors. I know it's frustrating. However, it's a normal part of the process. Max's liver and pancreas have forgotten what normal numbers feel like and, as a result, his system overreacts. The more time he spends in lower ranges, the more his body will readjust and the bouncing will slow down and the take less time to resolve.

Just to put this out there, from all of the research I've done, I can't find any data that actually support the existence of Somogyi, especially in cats or in cats on a long-acting insulin like Lantus. The original research on Somogyi was done in 1938 with 6 humans and published in a less than stellar medical newsletter. The findings have never been replicated and certainly not replicated with a depot-type of insulin. To say the phenomenon is controversial is an understatement. There is a difference between "chronic Somogyi rebound" and a bounce. Bouncing does happen.

I certainly wouldn't feed Max HC. If you wanted to give him a bite or two of LC, that would be fine. How are you feeding him now? Gabby is prone to similar early, fast dives. I feed her at pre-shot, +1, +2 and +3. Spreading out Max's food over the early part of the cycle may help.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS 301+2.75=282+3.75=161How to stop a bounce?

Thanks, Sienne. I gave him a spoonful of his regular low carb food which he ate. I guess what I actually mean is how to prevent a decrease because of him dropping too low. This has happened twice now, only to have to go back up. Both times after one shot he dropped under 50 and had a decrease.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301++3.75=161+6.5=126 How to prevent reducti

That's a different question!

I try to prevent Gabby from getting decreases. What this means is that as soon as I see a drop into what could be dose reduction territory, I intervene with food. Ultimately, I want to keep her in the greens for as long as possible. She will usually drop low to tell me it's too much insulin so you need to be comfortable with steering the numbers. If you look at Gabby's SS, you'll see what I do. Some of the other beans with long term diabetics do the same thing. I don't tend to get all caught up in different % carb foods. I use corn syrup or honey to boost Gabby's numbers (because she's allergic to the gluten in HC food) and I gauge how much I give her on what her numbers look like, how fast she's dropping etc. My ideal cycle would be blue pre-shots and the middle would be green.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301++3.75=161+6.5=126 How to prevent reducti

Thank you. Right now Max starts in the high 200's or low 300's and he drops quickly which the leads to a reduction. Would he be better to not drop into green until he gets used to blue?
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301++3.75=161+6.5=126 How to prevent reducti

not necessarily. but maybe - i don't know. i think that's a good question, but the only way to get the answer would be to try it. As cats move through different phases in getting under control, that changes. The goal is to ultimately get him used to being in greens and to then stay there.

i think what you're asking about is when i said the other day to hold up his lowest numbers so that he doesn't earn a reduction. the idea is that if you see him dropping quickly, or looking like he's wanting to head under 50, intervene at that point. there are a couple of ways to intervene:

1. you can give him a larger volume of food than he would ordinarily have - which might even be his normal low carb food. giving him more food can help him stop dropping and "get up on his surfboard." A couple of teaspoons is a typical amount for that.

2. you can give him a higher carb food to stop him from dropping. as sienne said, that isn't necessary and probably the first step would be to use the regular food.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301++3.75=161+6.5=126 How to prevent reducti

I don't know why this says 6:10 as I posted at 7:10.
Click to expand...
Did you remember to update your User Control Panel, Edit Global Settings, and click the YES radio button for Summer Time/DST is in effect?
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301++3.75=161+6.5=126 How to prevent reducti

No I didn't know to do that but will. I need help now. I left after his +6.5 and just got home. He is down to 80 and I have no idea if he went lower while I was out. He had an increase this morning. He is due for insulin soon and I don't know what to do.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecreaseWhat do

Are you home tonight, have plenty of strips, HC and able to monitor? You might want to delay 20 or so minutes and retest and see what direction he's going.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecreaseWhat do

I am home and well stocked. He ate last before I left and I haven't fed him since I got back. The last time we increased to 2 units he went down to 49 after just one dose and I stalled and then decreased. My vet says not to give insulin if under 100. I am so worried and scared. I will test again in 15 minutes which will be about 30 since the last test I think. I freaked out when I saw the 80.
 
Re: 3/16Max AMPS301 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecreaseWhat do

I'll be around for your next test. I have to start my own TFS now. You'll see people here give insulin under 100. The lowest I ever did on Lantus was 64. The cycles can often be very flat or he could decide he wants to go back down in dose. The delay could give you an idea whether he's surfing, dropping or rising and give a hint what his plans are.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

At about 25 minutes after his PMPS he is now 71. He got his insulin at 7:00 this morning. Why do these things happen when I couldn't be home for him this afternoon. I don't know how low he went today. Thanks for being there Wendy. This disease is not for the weak and I fear that I am.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

elise, often when people shoot low, the whole cycle will flatten out. have you looked at Davidson's ss? or Boots? I'll grab them for you while you're stalling.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

Boots

Davidson

The part to look at on these is what happens when they shoot a lower number. It's not to say that Max won't drop below 50, but my purpose is to point out that when you shoot a lower number, the whole cycle will eventually flatten out and the cat's pancreas begins to heal.

However, if you don't feel like tonight's the time to do that, you might need to go to your mom, whatever - the opportunity to shoot low will no doubt come again.

if so, perhaps skipping tonight or giving a reduced dose, or waiting until Max starts to rise and then shooting are better options.

hmmm - is the 71 meaning that he's dropped from 80 to 71?

and just to reassure you, he's in no danger. you don't have to be worried. you'll be able to steer him if he goes below 50.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

yes, he dropped from 80 to 71. I think I should be home tonight. My mom seemed a little better when I left.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

did you get a chance to look at those spreadsheets?

Can we answer anything to help you make a decision on what to do tonight?
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

I looked at them and i see what you are saying. I know he would be perhaps 25-30 points higher an a cat meter which would be over 100. He seems to still be going down though. I could give him the 1.5 tonight or wait and test again. Tomorrow I am supposed to take my mom to a doctor and would need to leave at 1:30 if I meet my mom and sister at the doctor instead of picking her up. I thought that was a safe time because max should have hit nadir or close to it before I left. I guess I could always leave lots of food out. I don't know.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

i wouldn't worry about where he is tomorrow right now.

it's more the question of tonight - are you up for staying up with him if he needs it? I'd recheck him now and repost the new numbers. the longer you stall, the lower he's likely to go and then it will become unshootable.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 after dosecrease +25=71

As Julie says - tomorrow is another day. It's too hard to predict now what will happen then. I'm glad Julie posted Davidson's SS link as an example.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

80-71-74, that's all basically flat.

if he were mine, i'd shoot.

probably the 1.75 since the 2.0 seems to be a tad too dramatic. i'm not sure - i guess that's your choice. maybe something in between if you could manage it?
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

Start feeding part of his regular food. I'd start with a +.5 and a +1 and see how he's doing and decide then whether his next meal needs more carbs.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

:lol: we're all posting at the same time! you'll want to refresh your browser to see posts!

so tomorrow morning your shot time is 12 hrs from when you shot tonight.

can you take off the 911 now? that way if you need urgent help you can put it up again and it will get noticed.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

I don't know if he got 1.75 or a tad more. Since I decided to give it I wanted to do it quickly before I chickened out and it's really hard to gauge between 1.75 and 2, especially when nervous. I just gave him his regular fancy feast and he is eating.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

ok. that all sounds fine.

so his pmps is 74. you can stack the 80/71 in the same column. I put it like this

12=80
12.25=71
12.75=74

go ahead and take off the 911. we'll want to be able to see it if you need it back up again.

one of us will be looking for you in a half hour. :-D
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

Relax, take a deep breath, and remember that as long as you are there to monitor if he goes too low you can steer the #s w/Karo or HC. I did this with Tawny just the other day, using a combination of LC &/or Karo. In the past when she was eating well and I knew I could be home to monitor I have shot as low as 59. I once shot Tinkerbell at a 52! But I knew my cats. I had a lot of data and I knew that they would surf it out, or I knew I could be home & steer the #s if they went too low.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74

Thank you all for seeing me through this. He ate about 1/3 a can of fancy feast. I must have read your mind, Julie. I took the 911 off before I read your post!
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87

I just ask Mr. Greenie to let Max surf safely. When should I test next?
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87

you definitely want to get a +1 and a +2.

Tonight's data will become important the next time you are faced with a similar situation.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87+1=91

I was planning on that but didn't know if I needed every 30 minutes.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87+1=91+2=93

A +3 would be good. Max is doing a great flat cycle tonight. :mrgreen: :cool:
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87+1=91+2=93

Thanks Wendy and Julie for helping me. I couldn't do it without you> :-D
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87+1=91+2=93

just wanted to let you know that i'm headed for bed in a half hour or so. Max is looking super - if he dips below 50 you know what to do - just like you did on march 4th. lather rinse repeat.

i'm thinking test once an hour unless he's going towards 60, then move to 1/2hr increments.

Wendy says she'll be up for another hour or so.

tomorrow morning you might be faced with the same situation again, and if so, you can look at how it went tonight. i think you've just become a pro, elise! you shot low and he stayed low! :-D

do you have any questions now? you doing ok?
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87+1=91+2=93

So do I test hourly until he starts to go up for a couple of tests? If we are in the same situation tomorrow do I do the 1.80? At what BG would I shoot 2 units tomorrow morning? If we have a repeat of today and I need to leave from 1:30- 3:30 and he is under 100 should I leave out HC food mixed with LC to be safe? He ate after his insulin and a little each hour since of his LC food so that might be keeping him steady. Have a good night's sleep Julie and thanks.
 
Re: 3/16Max 6.5=126 PMPS 80 71, 74 +.5=87+1=91+2=93

So do I test hourly until he starts to go up for a couple of tests? If we are in the same situation tomorrow do I do the 1.80? At what BG would I shoot 2 units tomorrow morning? If we have a repeat of today and I need to leave from 1:30- 3:30 and he is under 100 should I leave out HC food mixed with LC to be safe? He ate after his insulin and a little each hour since of his LC food so that might be keeping him steady. Have a good night's sleep Julie and thanks.
 
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