3/15Max AMPS 324+3=313+6=293PMPS 263+3.5=293

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tiffmaxee

tiffmaxee

Member Since 2013
I guess the stress of the noise wasn't why Max was mostly yellow yesterday WITH A PINK although his appetite was a bit down too. This morning he cried for nearly 2 hours. I caved and gave him a little 100% chicken.

Yesterday's Recap:

AMPS 205
+3=335
+6.5=271
PMPS 275
+3=263

What's going on with my boy??? I'm getting worried.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

kitties with chronic pancreatitis can have some level of insulin resistance - that's one of the hallmarks of pancreatitis. have you read the pdf on the Tight Regulation Protocol, about 4+ paragraphs down called "Management of Diabetic Cats"? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581 That has some info on there about pancreatitis that might be helpful. I think it could explain why he's been a little difficult to get regulated.

In the meantime, I think you could increase by 0.25u as long as you're monitoring. You have 22 cycles at 1.75u. Max is having some nadirs under 100 and then he bounces. I would try the increase and at the same time give him some higher carb foods any cycle that you think, by his early cycle tests, he's headed for green numbers. My suggestion would be to try to get enough insulin in him to keep him primarily in less than 120 numbers to help him get used to that range, and yet keep him from getting a reduction at the same time.

Does that make sense? What do you think about it?

Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.

if your cat is new to numbers under 200, it is recommended to hold the dose for at least 8-10 cycles before increasing.

when your cat starts to see nadirs under 100, hold the dose for at least 10 cycles before increasing.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

So if I increase him tonight and he shows a low number at +3, I should get him to eat some higher carb food? At what number would you think I would not need to check hourly? I'm confused because sometimes he will have a +3 around 200-240 and then drop at +5 or 6 but other times he won't. I don't know how to figure out when he is headed too far down and when he isn't.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

i can't tell you exactly what to do in every situation - you'll have to play it by ear. I suspect after a short time you'll get the idea of when to give extra carbs and when you don't need to. i think if you're uncertain, you could always give him food, or leave it out while you're sleeping.

The idea is to support his lower numbers enough that he doesn't earn a dose reduction. Then you can give him enough insulin to try to get the highs down and reduce the bouncing.

Do you get the general principle of what i'm saying?

and of course, you don't HAVE to do this. i'm just suggesting it's one method that some people have found helpful to bring down the higher numbers.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

I tried to find the part you mentioned I read on pancreatitis but couldn't find it. I'm getting really scared that Max won't regulate. Before I wanted remission so badly. Now I pray I won't lose him quickly to this nasty disease. He has gained 6 ounces which is not good for him either. I need to feed him even less if I have to give occasional high carbs. I wonder if the weight gain is having an impact on this as well.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

i would go by how he is feeling and acting - how do you think he's doing in those areas?

it is VERY normal for a cat to take a while to get regulated, and chronic pancreatitis seems to also be very common.

you probably don't want him to gain weight if he's at a good weight already. more carbs doesn't necessarily mean more calories.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

Thanks. I needed to hear that. I am getting so scared that I will lose him soon to this darn diabetes. He is sleeping a lot but them I am home more to watch him. His appetite is good. I don't know. I need him to get down to 14 pounds and he is now 14 lbs. 14 oz.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313

Elise:

There are a few things to be mindful of. First, this may be the tail end of a bounce and/or a high before a break in the numbers. Gabby does this on occasion. If you hinge your emotions to Max's numbers, you're going to be miserable. It's why we ask you to post how Max is doing -- a "whole cat" report. He's more than his numbers. Is he happy? Playful? Affectionate?

Make sure that you are sticking with the protocol and not holding doses for too long. Holding a dose that's not putting Max's numbers in the range where you want them, isn't a good dose. You don't want to be overly aggressive but you need to make sure you have a feel for how a dose is working.

Like Julie was saying, there's a lot here that depends on your kitty and how well you know your kitty. There's no hard and fast rule for how often to test. As an example, Gabby has a tendency to keep me on my toes. She likes hard, fast, early drops. As a result, I test early in the cycle and if her numbers appear to be heading down I either test more often (every 30 min.) and/or I feed some HC to slow things down. How I steer Gabby's number won't be right for every cat but it's right for her. You may want to look at other people's SSs to get a feel for how others manage their kitties' numbers.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313+6=293

i also want to add that diabetic cats can live long and healthy lives. getting some regulated is easy, others are more difficult.

But being diabetic isn't a death sentence at all! Don't even go there!!! Let's assume he has a lot of years ahead of him! ;-)
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313+6=293 PMPS 263

Thanks Julie and Sienne. So do I raise him tonight or tomorrow morning is the question. I'm leaning toward tomorrow and maybe a little more sleep will do something for my emotional health. I just came from my mom's and she is so weak. One more night of high numbers it is. I made the decision.
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313+6=293 PMPS 263

it's a good decision - you have to be able to manage things.

i'm sorry to hear your mom is still not doing well. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 3/15Max/Elise AMPS 324+3=313+6=293 PMPS 263

I'm sorry you're having such a rough day/time. I hope you can get some rest tonight, and good luck with the dosecrease tomorrow. Hugs! :YMHUG:

PS thanks for visiting us today :-D . I didn't want to post as it was yesterdays so figured I'd answer here. I do heat the fluids:) But amazon.com usually costs too much to ship here to Canada, if they do :sad: ...and amazon.ca has nothing of the selection that amazon.com does, I'm so jealous but I'll keep searching ;-) I figured we'd be good by now on fluids, we've done it since Sept. Kitties like to throw curve balls :lol:
 
Thanks Julie and Rachel. I didn't realize you are in Canada, Rachel. Well Max definitely will get his increase tomorrow. He has been high all day, sigh. He did eat 3/4 a can of fancy feast since his insulin. If might test one more time later or possibly just let him be for the night. Any ideas as to what I can do about him wanting food and 5-6 a.m. when he gets insulin at 7?
 
do you have something like a little bit of plain chicken breast? that's no carbs - i used to give punkin a little bit to tide him over. if not that . . . well, we shut our cats in other rooms so they don't wake us in the early morning. it's kinda mean but a person's gotta sleep. i'd let them stay with us, but my husband . . . not so much! ;-)

oh - and i would definitely not test again tonight. max isn't going anywhere dangerous.
 
I can give him some of the freeze dried chicken that he gets after ear pricks. I did that yesterday and today but just a very small amount. I'll see if he will eat chicken breast now that his appetite has improved. He is sooo picky. A friend asked me if maybe I should try a different type of insulin? I looked a the levemir support but it seems there are so few reporting in there. I'll check the main board next. Thanks.
 
quite a few of the people posting here are using Lev, if that's what you want to do. the nadir is typically later in each cycle. Wendy/Neko, Marje/Gracie, Donaleen/Ozy, Jill/Alex - they all use Lev. I need to look at the list of names to see who else, but there are others. Linda was using it with Scooter too.

Usually we suggest people give a full 6 months with any insulin to give it a valid try. It does have a longer duration and that can mean that the cat's numbers are flatter - a good thing! Different cats respond differently to it, of course.
 
Okay, I'll keep with lantus for the six months. I'm just trying to figure out how to help Max and don't want to miss any opportunity. Something is making him keep high numbers right now and I can't figure out why. I could understand him not going lower but the rising for days after a hopeful few is so upsetting to me. Thanks, Julie.
 
Elise

I would also give him more time. I know his numbers seem really high to you but I've seen other cats be in red and black for months so you've made a lot of progress with Max. Julie and Sienne have given you some good thoughts.

It's very hard to not let the numbers affect you. Whenever I feel upset about Gracies numbers, I watch her fly through the house, tail up in the air, chirping as she goes....and I realize I'm the only one freaked out.
 
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