3/15-Scratchie-AMPS-254

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Scratchie'smom

3/14 Condo

Well good morning all. I apologize for not getting back on here last night. Worked at tbp all day, then had more work to do last night. By the time I logged out, I was pretty tired. Oh well, that extra money helps in costs.

I sure didn't mean to start a problem yesterday - so apologize for that.

Thanks Mel, Dan, Heather, Debbie, Sienne and Marje for your input. Now I need to decide what is best for my boy. I know that we aren't special, that there are a lot of folks on the boards who are single, don't have help, work, go to school and still handle all of this - I just need to be comfortable and need to decide what will do that.

He was very playful and happy this morning! We played hide-n-seek for about 20 minutes, then he ate really well and was a member of the CPC twice!

I posted on Relaxed and responded to a couple of things since I posted there yesterday - hope that's not a problem - if it is, let me know please. So what dose and what is involved in SLGS?

Hope everyone has a great day, great numbers - Healing vines to all who need them!

Thanks!

Jo
 
I just need to be comfortable and need to decide what will do that.
I couldn't agree more!

With SLGS, there is no difference with dose. The differences are that you hold a dose for a week (barring the need to reduce) and you can reduce the dose with a drop in numbers to 90 or below. To be honest, with a cat that's been diabetic for around a year, I think the 90 is too generous of a cut-off for a reduction but that's entirely my opinion.

There are also considerations with regard to how long to hold a dose. This is where your judgement and knowing your cat are involved. For some cats, if you hold a dose for too long, you're flirting with glucose toxicity. I think you need to gauge when to increase based on whether you're seeing the kind of numbers you want.
 
Scratchie'smom said:
I just need to be comfortable and need to decide what will do that.
Amen!

I just read through yesterday's thread, and I hope you don't mind me adding some comments.

First, here is my analysis of your spreadsheet:

1. First, I don't think you need to get up all night to test right now, while he is still in fairly high numbers. There will probably be some times when you need to test more at night, but right now it doesn't seem to be needed. If he is high/flat at +3, I would go to bed and sleep. Get more tests on the weekends when you're able. Give yourself a break. I-)

2. Scratchie was getting some good numbers at about 5-5.25 units, then started earning reductions. Most Lantus cats hit a breakthrough dose, then start earning a series of reductions. Sometimes (usually) after a couple of reductions they will sort of stall out and have to go back up in dose a bit again to get a new breakthrough, but usually there is a pretty clear breakthrough point. Then at some point they will either settle into nice flat numbers at some dose, or they will keep getting reductions and go OTJ.

3. Scratchie earned a couple of reductions after 5.25u. At 4.75u, the reduction might have failed. There aren't many daytime spot checks on that dose so it's hard to tell for sure. The procedure for a failed dose reduction is to go back up to the last good dose. You increased the dose again to 5u, which brought him back to green, so that makes makes me think (again) that 5u was about right.

4. At this point, you probably could have just started reducing by protocol again and he would have been fine. 4.75u wasn't quite enough insulin, and 5u was good or possibly a bit much (but not a lot too much because 4.75 wasn't enough). So you know his good dose (at that time) was in that range because you have the data that proves it.

If you had stayed the course, he probably would have started earning reductions again at 5 or 5.25u. You can look at my Lucy's spreadsheet to see that she had a breakthrough at 4.25u, got some dose reductions but eventually lost it and I had to work back up in dose again, all the way back to 4.25u, then she started earning reductions again and this second time around she did much better. Some cats take a false start or two before they head down the dosing ladder for real.

5. After that second breakthrough, you reduced his dose to 1 unit and started over. You have increased according to protocol and haven't seen anything but yellow and pink. I see no indication of bouncing and no indication that he has passed his good dose. You're not quite back up to his original breakthrough dose yet, but getting close.

I agree wholeheartedly that too much insulin can look about the same as too little insulin, especially when you are looking at a spreadsheet that doesn't have much data. When you DO have the data, as you do, it helps to break down the whole picture and see what you can find. And yes, the Whole Cat Report too. 20 minutes of Hide & Seek is sooooooo cute! So Scratchie must be feeling pretty good.

Where do you go from here? It's up to you. You can try starting over again if you want, or you can plug along and look for another breakthrough. What might work (it's worth a try) is when you get to that next breakthrough, instead of reducing in increments of 0.25u maybe try reducing by 0.5u to be a bit more conservative. See how that works. If it works, great, if it doesn't, then split the difference, increase by 0.25u and see what happens. Play around with that method and see what kind of results you get. Just a suggestion, but it's an idea that seems logical to me. The protocol allows for 0.5u reductions. Most of the time we find that 0.25u reductions work better, but once you have learned the protocol then it is perfectly fine to tweak it so it works best for you and your cat.

I'm single and work and it can be tough sometimes. It doesn't have to be hard ALL the time, though. Lucy was really, really hard for because she was a drama kitty. I was lucky that she usually dropped at night and bounced during the day so I could leave her to go to work. Many times I thought I would like to find a dose that would keep her flat and a little higher so I could get some rest, but I never figured out how to do that because she didn't believe in flat (and it turns out that was because she wanted to go OTJ, and once I figured that out I decided it was worth the tradeoff). Jazzy was much easier because I could more easily predict what she would do and I was ok with testing less and leaving her alone during the day.

Some of it depends on the cat, some depends on how well you know your cat and how well you learn to apply what you know. You're doing fine, keep learning about Scratchie, keep asking questions, and you'll find a solution that works for both of you.
 
Hello Jo,
I'm hoping you aren't going to start over again. I think you have good explanations why not to.
And your spreadsheet tells the story. Scratchie is leading you in this dance.
I know you don't want Scratchie to be at a higher dose but it was working/showing progress (albeit small ) for him before you started over.
You have my support whatever you decide. :YMHUG:
 
It's not easy doing all this on your own, but it can be done. I've been using the SLGS Protocol because I can't come home from work to test during the day and it is hard for me to get mid cycle tests during the night on workdays. One thing that has really helped me is getting up a little bit earlier and getting a test right away. Then when I do Furball's AMPS test I can tell if she is rising or falling. I've had to learn to shoot lower numbers (blue mostly) on days I'm going to work. I've tried to collect enough data on the weekends to see how low she goes on days she starts lower (blues and lower yellows). Then I can tell if I need to leave extra food out to keep her from dropping too low during the day when I have to go to work. I have also started getting an in the door test when I get home from work. This has helped me tell if she's rising or falling at PMPS. On weekdays I don't want to stay up late, so I sometimes leave extra food out for her too so I can sleep and be awake at work the next day. I'm sure I'm not always right on guessing whether to leave extra food out, but I'd rather throw some uneaten food away than have Furball go too low while I'm at work. What I'm trying to say is it can be done. I've just had to be patient and study the data I've collected. If I hadn't started shooting lower numbers, Furball would still be pink and yellow all of the time.

I don't think you should start over. You and Scratchie have made a lot of progress. I was at a point with Furball where I didn't think I was getting anywhere and then all of the sudden she started giving me blues. Of course, you have to do what you think is best and safest for Scratchie. I will be here to support you in whatever decision you make.

If you decide to start the SLGS Protocol, I think Sienne is right in that 90 is too high for a reduction. I've started using 50 instead of 90 because Furball wasn't holding her reductions. I also make dose changes in 0.25 increments instead of 0.5 increments.
 
Hi Jo!

I'm so glad to hear Scratchie is feeling so playful and happy. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

You got some great info from Libby today. You know we are here to support you no matter what you decide.
 
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