3/14 Rosa AMPS 79 +1 66 +2 52 +2.5 78 +3.5 92 +4 108 +5 81 PMPS 107 +1.5 107 +3 75 +4.5 80 +5.5 97

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manxcat419

manxcat419

Member Since 2015
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-2-5-87-3-80-4-5-83-5-5-80-7-90-8-102.134523/

This is crazy. Feeling sorry for myself this morning - I've had hardly any sleep all week, even less last night. And now I can't even go btb this morning after a pre-shot that low...not after last night's numbers. She shouldn't be this low - she shouldn't have been this low last night. She has to have eaten her own bodyweight in carbs - she should be way higher and nothing's bringing her up for any length of time. Having serious second thoughts about the trial - even so far as wondering whether the higher numbers would have cleared as her depot emptied completely. How can it be that there isn't a dose small enough for safety, but nothing isn't quite enough? If that's really what's happening, I don't even see a way forward right now - I can't keep her carbed up indefinitely to offset tiny amounts of insulin at each shot!
 
Tonka dropped too low on 0.1 units too (using the visuals near the bottom of the the New to Group sticky as a guide: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-new-to-the-group-please-read.18139/ ), but wasn't quite ready to be off insulin entirely. Since there's that gap before the zero line on the BD syringes that I use (I can get about 4-5 small drops out of that gap), I was using the "some" insulin guideline for my "~2 drop" dose he'd been getting for the last week. That seemed to keep him at a good level. If I drew back to the bottom of the "zero" line and carefully squeezed out two drops, it usually put the plunger about half way between the line and the true end of the syringe, leaving apx. 2 drops. It's a pain, but the tiny dose seems to be a good compromise. Tonks has been creeping up since starting his trial the other day to so we might wind up having to go back to that dose for a while if he doesn't stay in the healthy range once his minimal depot clears.
 
Have you tried the "push hard and let go" method?

Before you put the syringe into the vial/pen, push the plunger in hard...insert and then just release the plunger. Remove from vial/pen and then see how much was automatically drawn in from the vacuum.

Compare it to the amount you've been giving.... that might be an easier way to "measure" your tiny little dose
 
There's nothing easy about FD. Mikey couldn't maintain his BGs on 0.1u either. There are some cats that are extremely sensitive to both the insulin and the carbs. The goal is to give the pancreas some support for as long as possible to help it heal and hopefully, have a stronger remission.

One thing that some people find works is to increase the carb content of the regular low carb that you're feeding. So if you normally are feeding 4%, try 8% - still a low carb but a slightly higher one - and see if that lets you give a shot and have it work.

The two methods that Jordi and Chris described above also give you less than 0.1u. You could try one of them and see if that works too.

Good luck! hang in there!
 
Thank you both. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have ranted - I'm just so, so tired this week. And I was expecting her to be higher this morning so I could get another couple of hours sleep. There are things that are so much worse that she could have and I know that. I guess after the way this week's been (not really Rosa, just everything else) I just wanted a few hours off from dealing with anything at all and I obviously wasn't going to get it! In the end, I dozed on the couch in between readings.

If you can get 4 or 5 drops out of that amount of insulin, you're doing way better than I can! Getting 2 out of the 0.1 is tricky for me - I'm usually fairly good at precision work, but I just can't quite get that level of control with the syringe. I can usually get 2 smallish drops or 1 bigger one!! This morning I went with the suggestion @phlika29 made of pushing the insulin back out into a drop on the needle and drawing half of it back up - even getting my eyes to work properly that early was tough going today! I'll try all the methods, thank you both for the suggestions, and see which one I can get the most consistent results with. I'm using the Relion syringes which don't seem to have a consistent gap before the zero line so I've been measuring with calipers to get the 0.1

On the plus side, she has come back up a little easier this morning, so maybe I can hold this dose for even a week for the extra support for her - if I can figure out over the weekend exactly when I need to give carbs to stop her dropping low that will definitely help. As she's at 108 now, I'm going to go get some of the stuff done that I need to as it looks like she should be good for a couple of hours now.

The higher carb food in general could work for her Julie, thank you. She does like the Turkey and Giblet food from the Safeway own brand (the name escapes me right now - I'll know it as soon as I see it) which seems to be around the 10% carbs. Maybe I could mix some of that with some of the other food to get her something around 8% instead of waiting for her to drop and having to give high carb every time.
 
You can always rant here.

What you can measure out of 0.1u is dependent partially on how big around the barrel of your syringe is. I'd give whatever method you try a few cycles - you're working with a depot here that has to equalize with the size of the dose.

I hope you can get some rest today too. It can be a very exhausting phase.
 
This is always a safe place to rant!! We all understand here!!

Hopefully if you try the "push and release" method, the amount will be at least consistent since you're not actually trying to measure...the vacuum is doing the "work", but of course, nothing is ever definite in the sugardance!!
 
I think that might well make it easier Chris, thank you. I agree, having the vacuum doing the work for me especially for the morning dose would make it easier - it can be tough enough to focus on anything that early, never mind something so small I can barely see it at the best of times (and colorless too of course - why couldn't they make insulin a really bright color?) And it would mean that the inconsistency in the markings on the syringes would be pretty much irrelevant too - the vacuum doesn't care where the line is printed!! ;)
 
Sending big hugs! This is so hard, but you're doing a great job. Friskies Turkey and Gibbets Pate is an 8% food. That's what Mikey eats. I've use the push and release method with relion syringes, and it works like a charge. So much easier than measuring .1.
 
Thank you - I'll get some more of the Friskies T&G too - she does eat that one anyway but I have it in rotation with a few other flavors - maybe she'll have to have more of that and less of some of the others just for a bit. I think the measuring is one of the things that really gets to me - I worry I'll get it wrong when I'm so tired as it's such a tiny amount. So the push and release method does sound like a good one - I'll try that tonight.

Thank you all so much for understanding. I usually try not to rant and get into the self-pity thing, but it really does help to know that there are so many people here who understand that when I say "I'm tired" I don't just mean I had a bad night's sleep - the sort of tired from the constant waking up to test or take food away or put food out is so much more than that. And of course there's the emotional exhaustion of worrying every day too! I'm feeling a bit better now - going to head out in a few minutes and get some things done and supplies bought so if I need to I can nap the rest of the weekend away between tests!!
 
A magnifying glass can also be a great help in the morning. I'm using my hand lens more for checking Tonka's insulin dose lately than I am using it for work (its intended purpose :))
 
I'm sure we have one around here somewhere - I'll just have to find it! ;)

Of course now she's back down to 81 just as I'm about to leave the house! :P
 
We didn't test her this afternoon - I needed a break, she needed a break and I'm pretty good at spotting the secondary signs that she's low by now - she seems to start getting fairly bad-tempered at anything below about 57 which gives me time to catch her early as long as I'm keeping an eye on her. Decent PMPS just the same though - I'm going to try the vacuum method of getting the 0.05u dose for her this time as it seems like it might be easier for me to get it the same each time.
 
(((April)))

There isn't one of us that doesn't understand that total emotional and physical exhaustion. Having your sleep interrupted even one night really takes it out of you and more than one night.....it's just overwhelming at times.

When I am drawing a drop of R, I do it as Chris explained. If I'm doing .05u or .1u, I use calipers because with the terumos, both the latter doses are more than one drop. Just try and be consistent.

I agree with Julie about trying a higher carb food. And if you are exhausted tonight, it's ok to give her some major carbs and get her up so you can sleep. If she does it tomorrow night, you might want to skip the shot and sleep.
 
@Marje and Gracie - I tried to post this last night from my phone but it didn't work for some reason! Thank you :) I know I'll get through this one way or another. She's come up a bit over the last couple of hours so I think she's good for tonight now :)

I may have to skip tomorrow night depending on how the day goes - starting the week exhausted never makes things go well. She seems happy and settled for tonight at least which is good - with any luck I'll get a few hours more than I have been. :)

For now I'm going to stick with Chris's method of getting the dose as it seems to be working for her even if it is a bit less than 0.05. If she's getting slightly less than 0.05 that way it does at least seem to be getting her into good numbers. If she needs a little more, then I'll go back to measuring and try to get a dose somewhere between what I'm giving now and the 0.1.

@Vyktors Mum - I was, thank you. And feeling better for it this morning! :D
 
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