3/14 PMPS +8.3 - off scheduleDjoko

Marj & Djoko

Marj & Djoko

Member Since 2020
Djoko has been in the very high numbers and since the last two cycles, he seems to have low PS for his own standards. Does that mean the dose may be too high? How come his AMPS was lower than all the values within the last cycle?
Merci
 
He is seeing some nicer numbers in the past couple days! This is a good sign, his body might be getting used to them (at least a little bit).

With the lower number at pre-shot, he may be breaking his last bounce. Can you get a test at +1 or +2 to see if he's continuing downwards?

He's still in very safe numbers, we just want to get an idea of where he's headed next.
 
OK, I've gone back and read through your first post on Feline Health, Stalling- please help. Djoko's uncontrolled diabetes

There were a lot of details in there, so I am going to ask a couple of questions.

First: have you switched food from the "sauce" DM varieties to all Fancy Feast pates and other low-carb canned food? If so, that's another possible explanation for the better numbers recently, and a very good one! Many diabetic cats respond really well to a food change. It's really important to keep testing when you do the change.

Speaking of testing, second question: are you planning on doing a curve today? There was a mention of doing a curve on Saturday, just curious if that is still the plan.

Third question: I'm not sure if the "stalling" in your other thread title is for this morning or for another time. Did you shoot late this morning, and if so, how late?

I was amazed reading through the thread, you are so dedicated to Djoko's care! It will get easier, you're doing a great job!
 
Hi,
I have been advised to switch tothe Lantus forum. Hope my two posts do not create confusion.

Yes. I am not longer giving him DM food. He is on weruva, b.b.f and Fancy food. Normally, the snacks are weruva and b.b.f and the main calories from Fancy Feast. I know consistency matters but I had bought many of these weruva and b.f.f. cans before trying Fancy Feast which he seems to enjoy a lot!

Yes. I am doing a curve.

Yesterday PMPS, he was at 9.8. The night before, his PMPS was 13.5. I was worried to shoot him that low (for DJ's standards, these are low values). I waited an 1h25, he was at 12.6. I fed him and basically gave him his shot 2h15 after his normal shot time. To be consistent, I gave him his shot later today. The reason I delayed his shot yesterday was to make sure I had a "normal" BGC. I would like to get back to schedule, would giving him shot, assuming his values are good, 30 minutes earlier tonight would be fine?

I am dedicated. It seems that I am on a mission. Thank you for encouraging me and helping me throughout this forum. It helps a lot!

His +2 is 17.7.
 
Marj said:
It seems like this is going to be a flat curve. 17.4 at +4.
This disease is sooo unpredictable!
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:banghead:

Well, you're still only partway through. If the next test is still flat, though, you might want to stop doing the curve for today and give his ears a break.

Reasoning: the information you are looking for in a curve is, "how low does this dose take him?". You already know that this dose can take him into the blue numbers, so contining a curve when he's high up in pinks isn't going to be that informative. But again, I'd wait for the next test to see if he has any surprises for you today.

Have you had a chance to look at any of the yellow "stickies" at the top of this forum? We use two different dosing methods, "Tight Regulation" and "Start Low, Go Slow", to decide on dose changes. Both are designed assuming human meters, so that might be another reason (besides the cost of strips :eek: ) to consider switching.
 
Well, at least he's out of the pinks!!!! And moving, which is good.

If you do the rest of the curve today, you will get information about how low he goes today, and maybe a little information about what time in the cycle he tends to hit his lowest number. It may not be a typical day (he was heading up in the first half of the cycle), but it is some information.

I think it's up to you how much testing you want to keep doing today. Even if you don't do the full curve, though, I would do the +10 reading. That way, when you get the PMPS, you'll know already which direction he's heading at that time.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Well, at least he's out of the pinks!!!! And moving, which is good.

If you do the rest of the curve today, you will get information about how low he goes today, and maybe a little information about what time in the cycle he tends to hit his lowest number. It may not be a typical day (he was heading up in the first half of the cycle), but it is some information.

I think it's up to you how much testing you want to keep doing today. Even if you don't do the full curve, though, I would do the +10 reading. That way, when you get the PMPS, you'll know already which direction he's heading at that time.
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7.6!
 
I tested him at +10.5 (before seeing your response). He is at 6.6. He is absolutely fed up - poor animal.
Should I test him at 11 or 11h30 or wait at 12?
 
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Good point. He may be high enough, believe it or not. I suspect he's a pretty bouncy boy, and he's got a couple hours to move before shot time.

If he doesn't... there is no history of ketones or DKA, correct? If he has had no ketones, then skipping might be an option tonight. Then tomorrow, you could get back to your preferred shot time.

Whether you shoot or not, you'll want to start a new post in Lantus tomorrow. You have probably seen that it's a pretty busy forum. The way we keep things straight is to keep to one post a day, with the first post including a link to the previous day in case someone wants to check the history.

I'm very encouraged by Djoko's green number tonight! Don't worry if he goes very high from here-- that's not unexpected.
 
I am not so good with forums and al. So do I copy paste the link of today in me msg, is that correct?
Shot time is in 45 minutes.
No history of DKA that I am aware of. He has been tested twice at the vet (one on Feb 16) and I tested him last week with ketoxtic or something like that and result was negative.
Should I try to test him for ketones tonight and base my decision on the test's result?

I feel like the last two days have been good but I need to monitor him closely which is fine when I am off (took off Friday) but I don't know how I will be able to work knowing that he may drop in the green number and may need assistance (e.g. food). This is my struggle and any advice could help. Tonight, I intervened in his cycle by giving him food...
Merci
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
Good point. He may be high enough, believe it or not. I suspect he's a pretty bouncy boy, and he's got a couple hours to move before shot time.

If he doesn't... there is no history of ketones or DKA, correct? If he has had no ketones, then skipping might be an option tonight. Then tomorrow, you could get back to your preferred shot time.

Whether you shoot or not, you'll want to start a new post in Lantus tomorrow. You have probably seen that it's a pretty busy forum. The way we keep things straight is to keep to one post a day, with the first post including a link to the previous day in case someone wants to check the history.

I'm very encouraged by Djoko's green number tonight! Don't worry if he goes very high from here-- that's not unexpected.
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What about reducing the dose tonight if not high enough and then do it 30 min earlier? Would that work? I am encouraged by his numbers so do not want to mess with this trend.
 
If he hasn't had ketones in the past, there's no special reason to test him tonight. I just ask because if he had had ketones, we'd work a little harder to get some insulin into him. As it is, that is less urgent, and you should just keep doing what you are doing by testing for ketones regularly.

As for what to do going forward... I mentioned the yellow "stickies" about the two dosing methods we use here. Under one of them, SLGS, Djoko has earned a reduction with that 86 (4.8). If you follow that method, your new dose going forward would be 1.25U.

If you shoot tonight, you should get at least a +2 to see where he's headed. I do expect him to go high after that lovely green number :D, but just in case he doesn't you need to be prepared to monitor. I won't be around for the evening cycle, but hopefully others will be able to step in if you need assistance with that.
 
Nan & Amber (GA) said:
If he hasn't had ketones in the past, there's no special reason to test him tonight. I just ask because if he had had ketones, we'd work a little harder to get some insulin into him. As it is, that is less urgent, and you should just keep doing what you are doing by testing for ketones regularly.

As for what to do going forward... I mentioned the yellow "stickies" about the two dosing methods we use here. Under one of them, SLGS, Djoko has earned a reduction with that 86 (4.8). If you follow that method, your new dose going forward would be 1.25U.

If you shoot tonight, you should get at least a +2 to see where he's headed. I do expect him to go high after that lovely green number :D, but just in case he doesn't you need to be prepared to monitor. I won't be around for the evening cycle, but hopefully others will be able to step in if you need assistance with that.
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How do we give him a dose of 1.25U

We have U-100 3/10 ml/cc needles and the smallest increment is 0.5 units and these 0.5 unit increments are very small. There`s no way we can give 0.25 units with these needles.
 
Yes, it's tough-- there are no syringes available in 0.25U increments. You just have to do your best to estimate where 1.25 would be. The important thing is to try to be consistent from shot to shot. One way to do that is to make up an example syring with colored liquid in the right amount, to use for comparison. Some people use digital calipers to try to get a consistent amount from shot to shot. Just do the best you can-- it'll be OK.

The reason we move in 0.25U increments is because we've found that those tiny amounts can really matter in a cat's little body, and this way we don't miss the right dose. It is hard, though!
 
Hello, DJ is 8.3 at PMPS shot. He is 3 hours off schedule (in the last two cycles, we adjusted his schedule because we thought he was too low compared to his normal values PS). We kept the same dose to do a BG curve today and see where he was at. It seems that we may need to decrease his dose based on nadir and PS. His normal shot time is 8AM/PM and it is now 11PM here. Any advice? Merci!
 
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