3/13, Susie, AMPS 254, 277 @+3, 201 @+6.50 Same ole, Same ole

Summer and Susie (GA)

Summer and Susie (GA)

Member Since 2020
3/11, Susie, 251 AMPS, 234 @ +3 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

No significant changes in BG the last couple of days. Still getting a fairly flat curve with high numbers. I assume we will stay that way until our .25 increase next Tuesday. Susie has, clinically, been a lot better the last few days - although not as much today. She has been out and about at times when she rarely is. She just feels better and I can see that. I don't know why but I will take it!
 
Summer and Susie said:
3/11, Susie, 251 AMPS, 234 @ +3 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

No significant changes in BG the last couple of days. Still getting a fairly flat curve with high numbers. I assume we will stay that way until our .25 increase next Tuesday. Susie has, clinically, been a lot better the last few days - although not as much today. She has been out and about at times when she rarely is. She just feels better and I can see that. I don't know why but I will take it!
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looks like she is bouncing both AM cycles on the 12 and on the 13, are you sure she isn’t going lower in the night?
 
Marina & Chico said:
looks like she is bouncing both AM cycles on the 12 and on the 13, are you sure she isn’t going lower in the night?
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No, I am not sure. On the 9th and 10th I checked her blood at +6 at night. She was 235 and 252. I did not think she was going to get close to hypoglycemic so didn't check later at night (or earlier in the morning). How was it a bounce on the 12th (am)? Her numbers were pretty consistent: 232, 240, 236, 245.
 
Summer and Susie said:
No, I am not sure. On the 9th and 10th I checked her blood at +6 at night. She was 235 and 252. I did not think she was going to get close to hypoglycemic so didn't check later at night (or earlier in the morning). How was it a bounce on the 12th (am)? Her numbers were pretty consistent: 232, 240, 236, 245.
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i am no guru at reading BG data but usually when the +2 is the same or lower than the preshot you can expect an active cycle. U usually measure +3, that one should deffinitely be below preshot if it will be an active cycle. For example check the 11th AM cycle, +3 was below preshot and you saw Susie nadir at +6.5 with 192. On the 12 and 13th the +3 was higher than the preshot, which leads me to think that she was having a bounce. A bounce usually comes after they see a smaller value than they are used to (that doesnt even close have to be hypo, it depends what values is Susie used to). Since there are no measurements in the night we cannot know how low she is going, maybe she even sees some under 150 which would mean that this dose is not bad.
Chico does that constantly to us, he does much lower in the night cycles than during the morning, maybe Susie does the same :)
 
Marina & Chico said:
i am no guru at reading BG data but usually when the +2 is the same or lower than the preshot you can expect an active cycle. U usually measure +3, that one should deffinitely be below preshot if it will be an active cycle. For example check the 11th AM cycle, +3 was below preshot and you saw Susie nadir at +6.5 with 192. On the 12 and 13th the +3 was higher than the preshot, which leads me to think that she was having a bounce. A bounce usually comes after they see a smaller value than they are used to (that doesnt even close have to be hypo, it depends what values is Susie used to). Since there are no measurements in the night we cannot know how low she is going, maybe she even sees some under 150 which would mean that this dose is not bad.
Chico does that constantly to us, he does much lower in the night cycles than during the morning, maybe Susie does the same :)
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When do you suggest I check her measurement at night. The two +6's were pretty normal (235 and 252) and right around her daytime nadir. Do you think I should be checking at +7 or +8? I have ALWAYS been confused about the bounce but I do see what you mean about the lower +3 on the 11th and the higher +3's on the 12th and 13th (today). I am not happy with her high glucose readings and do want to get her to 1.5 units. I want to start seeing some blues but I want to take this very slowly. Even if her current dose is not bad - I know I can see better numbers with a very slight increase.

How do you sleep, Marina? I look at your spreadsheet and I say "No way will I ever test this much at night"! Even if I have to keep her in higher numbers I will not test every hour on the hour at night. This is not what I signed up for. I am looking to achieve reasonable numbers - not remission - and I don't want to destroy my nighttime sleep pushing my cat to numbers that are borderline hypoglycemic. I am looking for numbers around 110 to 150 and I know those are not entirely healthy for Susie but they are better than where she has been.
 
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Summer and Susie said:
When do you suggest I check her measurement at night. The two +6's were pretty normal (235 and 252) and right around her daytime nadir. Do you think I should be checking at +7 or +8? I have ALWAYS been confused about the bounce but I do see what you mean about the lower +3 on the 11th and the higher +3's on the 12th and 13th (today). I am not happy with her high glucose readings and do want to get her to 1.5 units. I want to start seeing some blues but I want to take this very slowly. Even if her current dose is not bad - I know I can see better numbers with a very slight increase.

How do you sleep, Marina? I look at your spreadsheet and I say "No way will I ever test this much at night"! Even if I have to keep her in higher numbers I will not test every hour on the hour at night. This is not what I signed up for. I am looking to achieve reasonable numbers - not remission - and I don't want to destroy my nighttime sleep pushing my cat to numbers that are borderline hypoglycemic. I am looking for numbers around 110 to 150 and I know those are not entirely healthy for Susie but they are better than where she has been.
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What i would be doing if i would be following SLGS would be to measure +2 and if it is the same or lower then the preshot i would check a +5 or +6, if +2 would be higher than the preshot i would not measure since this would most probably be a bounce cycle. To be certain that i would be catching nadir (because cats nadir at different hours even though majority would nadir at +5 or +6) i would do a curve measuring every 2 hours in an active cycle. Since you have been measuring plenty you should have a pretty good understanding of when Susie is nadiring, if not do a curve.

The point of measuring the nadirs is to know how low this dose is taking Susie, i understand your frustration with seeing just 1 blue value but usually cats tend to go lower at night and since Susie has active cycles at night you could be missing lower values than what you have seen up until now. By increasing the dose without knowing how low she is going now can bring her to lower values than you would be feeling comfortable with. Dose is increased based on nadirs, not preshots.

I understand perfectly why someone would not want to/be able to follow TR, we do it because we don’t have kids, we homeoffice and we are sharing the testing with my husband. I take the morning “shifts” and he does the night ones. To be honest i would not mind having Chico in the values he has lately been forever. We overtest because we started 2 months ago from black numbers and we are still very much stressed with the swings Caninsulin would cause, therefore we are overly cautious. With time we get more comfortable that he has flatter curves and we test less :)

good luck and hope you will see nice nadirs as soon as possible :)
 
A bounce cycle has more or less flat curve, a typical example is what you measured on the 12th AM cycle. The 13 is as well in my opinion a bounce but to know that for sure i would have to see how low did she go in the night
 
Marina & Chico said:
A bounce cycle has more or less flat curve, a typical example is what you measured on the 12th AM cycle. The 13 is as well in my opinion a bounce but to know that for sure i would have to see how low did she go in the night
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But I did test two nights in a row at +6. Numbers were high. You say to check at +5 or +6. I did that on the 9th and 10th. She had her lowest PMPS tonight than she has had in one month. I will test before bed (around +2.50) and I will get up at +6 or +7 tonight to see how she looks. It does make me nervous that her PMPS was as low as I have seen in one month so I will check before bed and again late tonight (I go to bed around 7:30). Now I understand how you get all the nighttime and daytime test. You are so fortunate to have someone to "tag team" with. I do not. I will do two test tonight to make sure she doesn't surprise me with a really low number. I just haven't seen it when testing at +6 at night. Thanks for your patience with me, Marina. I'm am dreading the day when I might have to test several times during the night. By the way, Chico looks really good! Thanks to his Mom and Dad!
 
Summer and Susie said:
@Marje and Gracie I bought the Herbsmith Milk Thistle from Chewy. It doesn't taste bad so I am hoping to put the powder directly in to Susie's food and hope she will eat it. If she doesn't, what do you mix it with to put in the syringe? Just water? How much water? Please explain what you do or what you did. Thanks.
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My cats get several supplements for their health including egg yolk powder from Food Fur Life. I mix all their supplements together in a little dish (including the milk thistle) and add some water to a slurry consistency. My cats have eaten from a syringe since they were babies so they think it is a real treat. Only Liv gets the milk thistle but, in a few instances when I forgot to add it, if I just mix it with water to form a slurry that’s easy to get out of the syringe but not too thin, then she takes it happily. You just want the consistency so it’s not too thick but not too thin that it will choke them. Then you just syringe a little from the side on to the tongue and let the kitty swallow it. You never want to syringe down the throat.
 
Summer and Susie said:
But I did test two nights in a row at +6. Numbers were high. You say to check at +5 or +6. I did that on the 9th and 10th. She had her lowest PMPS tonight than she has had in one month. I will test before bed (around +2.50) and I will get up at +6 or +7 tonight to see how she looks. It does make me nervous that her PMPS was as low as I have seen in one month so I will check before bed and again late tonight (I go to bed around 7:30). Now I understand how you get all the nighttime and daytime test. You are so fortunate to have someone to "tag team" with. I do not. I will do two test tonight to make sure she doesn't surprise me with a really low number. I just haven't seen it when testing at +6 at night. Thanks for your patience with me, Marina. I'm am dreading the day when I might have to test several times during the night. By the way, Chico looks really good! Thanks to his Mom and Dad!
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I am not saying i am correct 100% about the nights of the 12 and 11th, i am just saying that judging by the AM cycle it might mean a bounce caused by a lower value.

Good luck today with the lower preshot, i hope you get a better nadir :)

We are very lucky we can share the responsibility and it would be a pity not to use it. Thanks we are very happy with Chico's progress, i don't mind having to give him insulin all his life if he would stay in these ranges :) we started from black numbers so to see him much lower is a big relief.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
My cats get several supplements for their health including egg yolk powder from Food Fur Life. I mix all their supplements together in a little dish (including the milk thistle) and add some water to a slurry consistency. My cats have eaten from a syringe since they were babies so they think it is a real treat. Only Liv gets the milk thistle but, in a few instances when I forgot to add it, if I just mix it with water to form a slurry that’s easy to get out of the syringe but not too thin, then she takes it happily. You just want the consistency so it’s not too thick but not too thin that it will choke them. Then you just syringe a little from the side on to the tongue and let the kitty swallow it. You never want to syringe down the throat.
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Thanks, Marje. Susie was so happy to actually get her cod, soul and shrimp Fancy Feast, after a long time, that she ate her entire dinner - including the 1/8 teaspoon of milk thistle that was recommended. Maybe she won't have a problem with it in her food.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
My cats get several supplements for their health including egg yolk powder from Food Fur Life. I mix all their supplements together in a little dish (including the milk thistle) and add some water to a slurry consistency. My cats have eaten from a syringe since they were babies so they think it is a real treat. Only Liv gets the milk thistle but, in a few instances when I forgot to add it, if I just mix it with water to form a slurry that’s easy to get out of the syringe but not too thin, then she takes it happily. You just want the consistency so it’s not too thick but not too thin that it will choke them. Then you just syringe a little from the side on to the tongue and let the kitty swallow it. You never want to syringe down the throat.
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I'm glad you pointed out to never syringe down the throat. I think I would have tried to do that.
 
Marina & Chico said:
I am not saying i am correct 100% about the nights of the 12 and 11th, i am just saying that judging by the AM cycle it might mean a bounce caused by a lower value.

Good luck today with the lower preshot, i hope you get a better nadir :)

We are very lucky we can share the responsibility and it would be a pity not to use it. Thanks we are very happy with Chico's progress, i don't mind having to give him insulin all his life if he would stay in these ranges :) we started from black numbers so to see him much lower is a big relief.
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Going from black numbers to where you are now is amazing. You and your husband should be very proud. Chico is lucky to have you both!
 
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