3/10 Toby's AMPS=155+5=187 PMPS=220+5=120

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Peg and Toby

Member Since 2014
Toby is doing fine on this dose He's running around chasing a fly at this minute. This is probably a crazy question as I know ECID. Just wondering why other high dose cats seem to get a break through and start a reduction on insulin. Toby's on a good dose and he seems to be stable and on good numbers but he not getting a reduction. I am not complaining I am so thankful we have him in good numbers. Was just wondering if his pancreas is to damaged to produce insulin on its own or he's just taking his time?
Take Care, Peg and Toby
 
Well, you have a couple of unknowns that could be affecting a "breakthrough." If I recall you haven't had Toby tested for acro or IAA, right? Given that he is on 18u of insulin, I'm guessing most people assume he has a high dose condition. And trust me, I know how irritating it is to hear "you need to get him tested." I heard it from day one and it took us, what, 6 months to have him tested. We were at 21u of Lantus when I finally had him tested. At the time I didn't have a job, had a new baby and we really just didn't have the money to do it. Most everyone here was accepting of that reasoning and we proceeded assuming Cobb was an acrocat. We ultimately didn't do the acro test (for various reasons), but confirmed he had IAA. But again, we proceeded with our treatment as if we knew Cobb had acromegaly...nothing in the treatment plan changed really. Give enough insulin to get BGs in a normal range, reduce if earned, increase if needed.

If, and I say "if" because I hated it when people wrote in a definitive "Cobb has acro" terminology (perhaps a bit of denial on my part), Toby is acromegalic, then the amount of insulin you are currently using is what is needed to offset the drip of hormones from the pituitary gland. And until that drip slows, you won't see a need to reduce because 18u is what Toby requires for that offset.

If you had Toby tested, you would have an answer to that "why aren't we seeing a breaththrough" question. Is it worth the expense so you aren't left wondering? Only you can decide that.

I'm pretty sure that isn't really the answer you wanted, but I think it is rare (although not impossible) for a cat who just has diabetes to require such a large dose. Even cats whose pancreases are very damaged don't usually require that much insulin. I would bet there is more going on than just "plain ole feline diabetes."
 
Thank -you Suzanne, I have been wondering if Toby is Acro. He doesn't have the features
the big face or paws and his breathing is okay. He does have a pot belly but he has had pancreatitis. My vet. didn't want to do the test because she said it didn't matter because we were going to have to give him as much insulin as he needed regardless the outcome. I know they say it does make a difference but right now he is doing okay on the 18 units. I guess I will wait a while and see what happens.
Thanks for your answer, Peg and Toby
 
Cobb didn't really have the features either, except he did have a pot belly. But, he was a fat cat. His name probably should have been Garfield.

The test will (in my opinion -- and take this opinion from someone who opted to not have the test done) give you some peace of mind because you will know. And it will alert you of things to look out for in the future -- like enlarged organs, megacolon, etc. Your vet is right though -- you'll still have to give him as much insulin as he needs, especially if you aren't going to do SRT.
 
Suzanne gave you a great answer!

And Toby's giving you a great response to this dose.

And honestly, right now, that's what matters!

Marilyn and Polly
 
Come on down Toby - time to see those greens again!

Marilyn and Suzanne are right - you've got a good dose now and seeing him in healthy numbers, and playing, is the most important thing. Like Suzanne did, you are asking questions that are very hard for us to answer. Without test answers it's just speculation. The question is - does it matter? Something, but we don't know what, means that Toby needs a larger dose. Most cats over 6 units have something else going on. Recent research has shown that 20-25% of all diabetic cats have acromegaly. One small study in cats showed 14% of diabetic cats had insulin antibodies. Neko's only signs of acromegaly at the beginning was aversion to bright light, amazing appetite (but she bounced to high numbers a lot) and her dose. She's just gotten her pot belly in the last year and I figure she's been acro at least 3.5 years.

To answer the question on why some high dose cats get a break and go down in insulin needs, it depends on what causes the need for the high dose. Cats with acromegaly have insulin needs that go up and down with the output of the acro tumor. If less growth hormone is emitted, then less insulin is needed and reductions are earned. IAA kitties can reach a point where the IAA breaks (like Cobb, Polly, and Neko did). Kitties with other conditions that make them harder to regulate (hyperthyroid, pancreatitis as examples but not usually causing high doses), can earn reductions as the secondary conditions are treated and come under control.
 
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