? 3/1 Gizmo - PMPS 136

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Rachel P

Rachel P

Member Since 2022
Can someone take a look at my spreadsheet? This is the absolute lowest preshot we’ve ever gotten. I don’t know if I should shoot, or if I should, what do I shoot? Nervous because she’s been taking some serious dips even with the decreased dose. Unfortunately I didn’t get any tests today after what I thought was the nadir, so not sure.

Thank you!

EDIT: food schedule change in progress.
 
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Oh my gosh so exciting (btw can you add "food schedule change in progress" to sig and original post? That's important info for us to know at a glance)

The drop from +5 to +6 was indicator to keep testing, if you were home. New full dose is 0.75U, I'm assuming there was a sub 90 in there. You can do 0.5U as new dose if that makes you more comfortable, since I know you have trip coming up.

Has she eaten in the past two hours? Have you retested? Can you be off schedule? Skip is fine, but I'd like to see where she's at right now to see if it may be ok to give a very small dose to help flatten a bounce/rise with a skip
 
FrostD said:
Oh my gosh so exciting (btw can you add "food schedule change in progress" to sig and original post? That's important info for us to know at a glance)

The drop from +5 to +6 was indicator to keep testing, if you were home. New full dose is 0.75U, I'm assuming there was a sub 90 in there. You can do 0.5U as new dose if that makes you more comfortable, since I know you have trip coming up.

Has she eaten in the past two hours? Have you retested? Can you be off schedule? Skip is fine, but I'd like to see where she's at right now to see if it may be ok to give a very small dose to help flatten a bounce/rise with a skip
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Will add to signature. I was home but I was on conference calls presenting all afternoon and couldn’t keep up with it. She was really, really sleepy (she sleeps on my desk right next to me).

I ended up skipping cause I was just too nervous. I get so scared about that, I didn’t have the courage to do it.

yes, she ate two hours ago. I will test her now. I can’t really be off schedule because then the feeding schedule will have to change and it’s impossible with her. We need to keep doing testing feeding and shooting all at once. Unless we can just do one off one tonight. But I cant change it going forward, it just won’t work with her eating. Will have a number in a few.

what does this all mean? I’m so perplexed with these numbers.
 
Rachel P said:
Will add to signature. I was home but I was on conference calls presenting all afternoon and couldn’t keep up with it. She was really, really sleepy (she sleeps on my desk right next to me).

I ended up skipping cause I was just too nervous. I get so scared about that, I didn’t have the courage to do it.

yes, she ate two hours ago. I will test her now. I can’t really be off schedule because then the feeding schedule will have to change and it’s impossible with her. We need to keep doing testing feeding and shooting all at once. Unless we can just do one off one tonight. But I cant change it going forward, it just won’t work with her eating. Will have a number in a few.

what does this all mean? I’m so perplexed with these numbers.
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That's all right! She'll be ok with a skip. 224 isn't too bad, but definitely shows she needs insulin/pancreas isnt working a whole lot.

This is what I was saying about food being given after insulin is wearing off/worn off. Since you switched it so it coincides with insulin kicking in/being at it's most "potent", has had a significant effect on numbers. The insulin can now work to better offset the carbs. And obviously starting at lower numbers means she can get into and stay in lower numbers (no bounces aided by carb timing, or from big drops); duration often improves in lower numbers as well so that's also part of it
 
FrostD said:
That's all right! She'll be ok with a skip. 224 isn't too bad, but definitely shows she needs insulin/pancreas isnt working a whole lot.

This is what I was saying about food being given after insulin is wearing off/worn off. Since you switched it so it coincides with insulin kicking in/being at it's most "potent", has had a significant effect on numbers. The insulin can now work to better offset the carbs. And obviously starting at lower numbers means she can get into and stay in lower numbers (no bounces aided by carb timing, or from big drops); duration often improves in lower numbers as well so that's also part of it
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I’m all crying because I feel like I’m always doing too much or never enough. Never the right combo or hairline decision. It’s taking such a big toll. Sigh. Hopefully I’m learning something each time :)

If this happens again, what do I do? If I go down to .75 or .5, what would the amount be in another scenario going forward so maybe I can feel empowered to make the decision on my own? Thoughts?
 
Rachel P said:
I’m all crying because I feel like I’m always doing too much or never enough. Never the right combo or hairline decision. It’s taking such a big toll. Sigh. Hopefully I’m learning something each time :)

If this happens again, what do I do? If I go down to .75 or .5, what would the amount be in another scenario going forward so maybe I can feel empowered to make the decision on my own? Thoughts?
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You're doing great! Look at her numbers. It's a very steep learning curve in the beginning, then you coast after that for the most part.

So when you get an unusually low preshot, you would stall without feeding for 20 mins. Unfortunately I can't give solid "do this in this range, or this if this happens" because her patterns are still shifting with the food schedule change

But using tonight as an example: if you had stalled 20 mins without feeding, and she had come up to about 150, I'd have said ok try something like 0.1U (like barely a hairline of insulin in the syringe) - always assuming you can monitor and have hypo kit. Just enough to hopefully keep her from getting to pink by morning, but not so much you'd have to stay up all night...or at least that's the hope.

Learning to shoot lower numbers can be a bit of trial and error. The ideal situation is she ends up around 180, and you say "ok, I can monitor, I have hypo kit, going to try full dose" and see what happens. And then ease into shooting lower numbers...but she's not being that cooperative of course :rolleyes:

I still think you're ok to shoot full dose if 200 or higher. 0.75U miiiight be a smidge too much...this part is a bit voodoo magic on my part, but with the way her numbers are acting my gut is leaning 0.5U. Can always increase if it doesn't work out.

150-200 you can try 0.1U if you can be around to monitor. This picture says U100 but the concept is exactly the same - hairline of insulin visible
upload_2022-3-1_20-40-42.png


I would skip anything below 150.
 

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FrostD said:
You're doing great! Look at her numbers. It's a very steep learning curve in the beginning, then you coast after that for the most part.

So when you get an unusually low preshot, you would stall without feeding for 20 mins. Unfortunately I can't give solid "do this in this range, or this if this happens" because her patterns are still shifting with the food schedule change

But using tonight as an example: if you had stalled 20 mins without feeding, and she had come up to about 150, I'd have said ok try something like 0.1U (like barely a hairline of insulin in the syringe) - always assuming you can monitor and have hypo kit. Just enough to hopefully keep her from getting to pink by morning, but not so much you'd have to stay up all night...or at least that's the hope.

Learning to shoot lower numbers can be a bit of trial and error. The ideal situation is she ends up around 180, and you say "ok, I can monitor, I have hypo kit, going to try full dose" and see what happens. And then ease into shooting lower numbers...but she's not being that cooperative of course :rolleyes:

I still think you're ok to shoot full dose if 200 or higher. 0.75U miiiight be a smidge too much...this part is a bit voodoo magic on my part, but with the way her numbers are acting my gut is leaning 0.5U. Can always increase if it doesn't work out.

150-200 you can try 0.1U if you can be around to monitor. This picture says U100 but the concept is exactly the same - hairline of insulin visible
View attachment 63631

I would skip anything below 150.
Click to expand...

okay, I’m gonna screenshot this and print it out so I don’t have to keep making you reiterate yourself. I feel so bad. It just keeps changing so rapidly.

I’m going to start with 0.5 tomorrow because I feel like given the one I did at .75 the other night kept her from going pink and it may be too much if I just stick with the low carb. It’s not manageable for me every day trying to time 6% food exactly (and hope to god she’s hungry and not sleeping), I get a work call, then I’m stuck for an hour with no hands and trying to test with one hand and getting blood all over my keyboard. It’s getting a little much (I know, crybaby) but there’s only so much life I can manage without having a full meltdown. She needs me to keep it pulled together.

I’m really scared to go away now. My husband said he’s going to start trying to test her tomorrow but I’m unsure - he has really, really bad eyesight. Do you think I should try to medical board her for those 3 days? It was 4 days and I cut it down to 3 today and got in big trouble at work. What if he can’t test her and it like spontaneously changes again? Maybe I should let the vet keep her, idk.
 
Do you know how many times a day I repeat myself on this forum? :p you are not the only one, it's very normal, and it bothers me zero. It's why we're here (and in another life, I was a professor and technical instructor).

You'll get no judgment whatsoever from me on trying to balance life and FD care. We say it all the time, you have to find the balance that works best for both of you. Can't take care of her if you're burned out, or not able to work and afford things, etc. To be honest, I'm glad when people even make a small effort to improve things for their cat, because the alternative is they either choose to euthanize, put in a shelter, or leave them feeling poorly.

We'll see where she's at tomorrow/Friday. Honestly, it will probably be 0.1-0.25U while youre gone, or even a few skips.

I would not board. You would think because they're professionals they know what they're doing....but I have seen too many bad things in my time here. Techs giving 60U (2 syringes) instead of 2U, or panicking about numbers in the 100s and giving IV glucose, giving shots way off schedule or multiple times a day. And many times they are not there during the night. She'll be in better hands with your husband, even if he has trouble testing or has to skip
 
FrostD said:
You're doing great! Look at her numbers. It's a very steep learning curve in the beginning, then you coast after that for the most part.

So when you get an unusually low preshot, you would stall without feeding for 20 mins. Unfortunately I can't give solid "do this in this range, or this if this happens" because her patterns are still shifting with the food schedule change

But using tonight as an example: if you had stalled 20 mins without feeding, and she had come up to about 150, I'd have said ok try something like 0.1U (like barely a hairline of insulin in the syringe) - always assuming you can monitor and have hypo kit. Just enough to hopefully keep her from getting to pink by morning, but not so much you'd have to stay up all night...or at least that's the hope.

Learning to shoot lower numbers can be a bit of trial and error. The ideal situation is she ends up around 180, and you say "ok, I can monitor, I have hypo kit, going to try full dose" and see what happens. And then ease into shooting lower numbers...but she's not being that cooperative of course :rolleyes:

I still think you're ok to shoot full dose if 200 or higher. 0.75U miiiight be a smidge too much...this part is a bit voodoo magic on my part, but with the way her numbers are acting my gut is leaning 0.5U. Can always increase if it doesn't work out.

150-200 you can try 0.1U if you can be around to monitor. This picture says U100 but the concept is exactly the same - hairline of insulin visible
View attachment 63631

I would skip anything below 150.
Click to expand...

also, I should add, he’s going to try to take off work those few days but she usually doesn’t eat well when I go away. She only likes to eat when someone is in the room with her. If he has to be at work, that leaves the autofeeder and him stopping in at lunch time. So the various snacking throughout the day will change. She literally just sleeps when she’s home alone.
 
Also, when you get a chance, change your glasses ;) while these numbers are scary - theyre healthy, they're progress - they're the result of you doing a lot of work and persistence to get her as healthy as you can. And you deserve a lot of credit for that
 
FrostD said:
Do you know how many times a day I repeat myself on this forum? :p you are not the only one, it's very normal, and it bothers me zero. It's why we're here (and in another life, I was a professor and technical instructor).

You'll get no judgment whatsoever from me on trying to balance life and FD care. We say it all the time, you have to find the balance that works best for both of you. Can't take care of her if you're burned out, or not able to work and afford things, etc. To be honest, I'm glad when people even make a small effort to improve things for their cat, because the alternative is they either choose to euthanize, put in a shelter, or leave them feeling poorly.

We'll see where she's at tomorrow/Friday. Honestly, it will probably be 0.1-0.25U while youre gone, or even a few skips.

I would not board. You would think because they're professionals they know what they're doing....but I have seen too many bad things in my time here. Techs giving 60U (2 syringes) instead of 2U, or panicking about numbers in the 100s and giving IV glucose, giving shots way off schedule or multiple times a day. And many times they are not there during the night. She'll be in better hands with your husband, even if he has trouble testing or has to skip
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You’re totally right. After I wrote that and started considering it, I feel like at this point they would see a 389 and give her 3units just to spite me and prove my reductions wrong. Or just totally F up the schedule. She also would refuse to eat and use the box, too. Bad idea.
 
FrostD said:
Also, when you get a chance, change your glasses ;) while these numbers are scary - theyre healthy, they're progress - they're the result of you doing a lot of work and persistence to get her as healthy as you can. And you deserve a lot of credit for that
Click to expand...
Thank you (I’m not crying, you’re crying…)
 
FrostD said:
To be honest, I'm glad when people even make a small effort to improve things for their cat, because the alternative is they either choose to euthanize, put in a shelter, or leave them feeling poorly.
Click to expand...

No way….I’ll always do the best I can. My toxic trait is to always put my pets before me, until I’m sick with worry. just have to work towards finding some balance here because it’s unsustainable at these levels. We’ve been through a lot together these last 13 years. Bottle feeding on day 1 to insulin today. She’s a very lucky girl. And so am I.
 
FrostD said:
I would reduce to 0.25U tonight to hope for less carb intervention
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A mission for what? Remission or for me to voluntarily commit myself? Hopefully the former.

that’s what I had already planned unless the numbers aren’t supportive but I think it’ll come back up now.
 
Rachel P said:
A mission for what? Remission or for me to voluntarily commit myself? Hopefully the former.

that’s what I had already planned unless the numbers aren’t supportive but I think it’ll come back up now.
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It's a bit hard to say...she still needs insulin for now but she might put you in a situation where you can't safely give it, at least with ProZinc.
 
FrostD said:
It's a bit hard to say...she still needs insulin for now but she might put you in a situation where you can't safely give it, at least with ProZinc.
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Oh, well good, cause I certainly do love more debacle as opposed to less. Long live Gizmo!
 
I know I'm late, but test at +6 and see. Unfortunately kind of have to become the queen of napping lol

I am unwell, think the 'rona might have finally got me. I will do my best to check in, but guidance for your trip - I'm leaning a mix of drop doses and skips. A drop dose is where you push the plunger down as hard as you can to get air out, insert in vial, then release the plunger. Result is a drop of insulin in just the needle part, not even visible in the barrel. When giving the shot, have to push the plunger in hard as you can and try to hold for 10 seconds (and obviously try not to hurt the cat...)

I hate to do that to your husband because it can be tricky, so skips may be needed...concern there is ketones. You said a sitter is helping him right?
 
FrostD said:
I know I'm late, but test at +6 and see. Unfortunately kind of have to become the queen of napping lol

I am unwell, think the 'rona might have finally got me. I will do my best to check in, but guidance for your trip - I'm leaning a mix of drop doses and skips. A drop dose is where you push the plunger down as hard as you can to get air out, insert in vial, then release the plunger. Result is a drop of insulin in just the needle part, not even visible in the barrel. When giving the shot, have to push the plunger in hard as you can and try to hold for 10 seconds (and obviously try not to hurt the cat...)

I hate to do that to your husband because it can be tricky, so skips may be needed...concern there is ketones. You said a sitter is helping him right?
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Oh no, I’m so sorry. Hopefully it’s a mild one. I had it beginning of January, and since you give me so much good advice, here’s mine (at the risk of sounding like a flat earther on an Alex Jones’ podcast). Flonase. Flonase is what made my taste and smell come back. I used it the whole time and then stopped, lost my taste and smell, and it came back when I restarted. It was like miraculous and I instantly felt fine. It was Flonase, a Vicks handheld steam inhaler, Ricola, soup and sleep. Those saved me. I really hope you feel better soon. If I made it, anyone can. I’m fat, smoke and my body is made of mostly Bojangles Cajun Filet biscuits.

I passed out last night, but I’m imagining it didn’t get too low from the 284 I got this morning. I have a tiny few bites of DM before bed just as a precaution.

I’m going to carefully watch the .25 today and the next few Who knows, maybe it’ll be safe enough where I feel like he can give it while I’m gone, it’ll be a good trial run.

just tested doing that drop dose, not that hard. It instantly took me to just under the first line and that was all.

feel better and don’t worry!
 
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FrostD said:
I know I'm late, but test at +6 and see. Unfortunately kind of have to become the queen of napping lol

I am unwell, think the 'rona might have finally got me. I will do my best to check in, but guidance for your trip - I'm leaning a mix of drop doses and skips. A drop dose is where you push the plunger down as hard as you can to get air out, insert in vial, then release the plunger. Result is a drop of insulin in just the needle part, not even visible in the barrel. When giving the shot, have to push the plunger in hard as you can and try to hold for 10 seconds (and obviously try not to hurt the cat...)

I hate to do that to your husband because it can be tricky, so skips may be needed...concern there is ketones. You said a sitter is helping him right?
Click to expand...

and no, the sitter backed out. So it’s just him. It’s really only two full days. I’m leaving at noon on Sunday so will give the morning dose, and he will do Monday and Tuesday and I’ll be home Tuesday at midnight to check. Hopefully things won’t devolve too much in that time span…
 
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Bojangles, I am dead

I miraculously passed out for 14 hours, had pretty good fever all night but by this morning it was gone. So fingers crossed, still waiting for our COVID tests in the mail, probably take one today just to see.

Thanks @Diane Tyler's Mom too :bighug: Now that were getting out of the house more, especially with kids activities, we're getting hit with everything we've avoided the last two years. Body forgot how to be sick I think!
 
FrostD said:
Bojangles, I am dead

I miraculously passed out for 14 hours, had pretty good fever all night but by this morning it was gone. So fingers crossed, still waiting for our COVID tests in the mail, probably take one today just to see.

Thanks @Diane Tyler's Mom too :bighug: Now that were getting out of the house more, especially with kids activities, we're getting hit with everything we've avoided the last two years. Body forgot how to be sick I think!
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I'm glad you had a good sleep and the fever is gone. Please let us know when you get your results. Did you get any of the shots for the for covid?
@FrostD
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I'm glad you had a good sleep and the fever is gone. Please let us know when you get your results. Did you get any of the shots for the for covid?
@FrostD
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I did not. When the vaccines first came out I was pregnant, so OBs advice was not to get it because there just was no data. We are still planning for one more baby, so PCPs advice is still to wait because I am still young and healthy - because although yes there's possible impact to fertility either way (vaccine or getting COVID), they still don't know if there are any long term effects on the kids themselves. So for us risk is about the same either way. I am considering getting vaccine after 3rd baby to pass on the antibodies while nursing, depends. Might do an antibodies titer first.

We are by no means anti vaccine, but I would say "selective vaccine". Good example is Hep B for the kids - there's literally no chance of them getting it at this age with our lifestyle, so we skip it. But we absolutely do things like pneumococcal, DTaP, etc.
 
FrostD said:
I did not. When the vaccines first came out I was pregnant, so OBs advice was not to get it because there just was no data. We are still planning for one more baby, so PCPs advice is still to wait because I am still young and healthy - because although yes there's possible impact to fertility either way (vaccine or getting COVID), they still don't know if there are any long term effects on the kids themselves. So for us risk is about the same either way. I am considering getting vaccine after 3rd baby to pass on the antibodies while nursing, depends. Might do an antibodies titer first.

We are by no means anti vaccine, but I would say "selective vaccine". Good example is Hep B for the kids - there's literally no chance of them getting it at this age with our lifestyle, so we skip it. But we absolutely do things like pneumococcal, DTaP, etc.
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Thanks for explaining that, you know what people that got the 2 vaccines and the booster still got covid, my sister did .That's crazy. Now they are talking about getting another one in fall possibly, what the hell are we going to have to get these forever!
@FrostD
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Thanks for explaining that, you know what people that got the 2 vaccines and the booster still got covid, my sister did .That's crazy. Now they are talking about getting another one in fall possibly, what the hell are we going to have to get these forever!
@FrostD
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I very much think it will become the flu shot. An annual thing they take an educated guess on variant. (I dont get the flu shot either unless pregnant or nursing LOL I'm sure that will change as I get older)
 
I fought it and fought it, until work told me to get it or get lost. So I did, then got Covid a month later. So glad I was forced!
 
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