3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410,+8.25~281

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Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)

Caryl & Sebastian & Alex (GA)

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What a surprise confused_cat confused_cat confused_cat
Attn:CD
Now that is one heck of a bounce, whew! Bouncing to the moon or what?
I hope tomorrow his numbers are a lot flatter than they were tonight. That's gotta' feel weird to Alex, going so low then so high.

Good luck tomorrow.
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Thank you, CD and yes it was one heck of a bounce . I thought the very same thing at 4:30AM when I woke up to test him. I asked him if it felt weird and he said to me.."Mommy, it probably would have but I was sleeping just like you so I didn't really feel it happening" .

That's my boy cat_pet_icon ♥

Alex is fine so far today. Very hungry and maybe not as hyper as he normally is this morning. I also noticed that he was drinking a little more water than usual this morning but his bg is higher and he had all that Karo last night.. and I really never notice him drinking any, so any is more than usual.

Alex is feeling very hopeful and optimistic this morning in spite of his HI bg and is happy to see his Mom with a smile on her puss for a change.
(Umm, he meant face, not him or Jackson)

Morning everyone :-D

yesterday
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Holy smokes. you had quite a ride last night. I guess all that talk about increasing his dose got him going.

So, let's recap what happened or my understanding and see if it makes sense:


Yesterday am he got lantus and R. He dropped to yellows for PM and then during the night dropped below 50. This huge drop may have been a result of the R and therefore, because it was so early in the PM cycle, you gave karo and HC food to get him up. After doing this, he went up all the way to a safe number to go to sleep and then kept climbing until he reached the top this morning.

So, what this shows me is that he reacts to both insulins and while R was intended to stop the too high BG's and avoid ketones - it also drops him too low with giving lantus too.

Normally this would call for a lantus dose reduction, however, given that R factored into it, I'm wondering if just removing the R and keeping him at the same lantus dose is the way to go, until this all clears out of his system - R, karo, HC, etc.

And then see what happens today and how quickly and low he drops before deciding on a dose change either up or down.

And of course, the other issues need to get addressed - thryoid, cystitis, etc. As all that can factor into what's going on with Alex.

Does this make sense or am I fuzzled in my thinking? As I'm trying to understand the correlation too.
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Ok now liver training starts. His liver has been very active, so we're just gonna keep on keeping on til he stops with the wild swings. You don't have to test so often today, try to get a +5, +8 and PMPS. Glad to hear he's feeling ok, and yeah HIs are gonna make him drink. Very glad to see neg ketones, let's see what +6ish brings us.

For Hillary, no there is no dose reduction yet. That 39 was at his normal R drop time and due solely to the R, not his basal insulin. His basal dose remains the same, or increases depending on what he decides to do when rebound clears.
..C
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Carolyn and Spot said:
Ok now liver training starts. His liver has been very active, so we're just gonna keep on keeping on til he stops with the wild swings. You don't have to test so often today, try to get a +5, +8 and PMPS. Glad to hear he's feeling ok, and yeah HIs are gonna make him drink. Very glad to see neg ketones, let's see what +6ish brings us.

For Hillary, no there is no dose reduction yet. That 39 was at his normal R drop time and due solely to the R, not his basal insulin. His basal dose remains the same, or increases depending on what he decides to do when rebound clears.
..C
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Well he is going to be happy about the not so much testing today...and I guess it will be easier on me as well because when I see high numbers..well you know :roll: although with Alex it could go either way. I hope he pees at +6 :)

He's kind of tired for him today. Normally he'd be yakking away and asking for food now but he is just chirping a little bit...well now he's starting to be a little more vocal but not much. He is decidedly more tired. His little body has been through the mill (thanks to moi) :oops:
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Wow Alex IS tired. I just went into the kitchen and he didn't scream at me for food. That is so weird. He just followed me in and wanted to be picked up. He was purring. I put him down(after sticking my nose in his mouth..I can't help myself) and now he's just hanging....

should I worry? That is SO unlike him. He's ALWAYS hungry. Could lack of appetite be from all the Karo last night?
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Whenever he pees midcycle is fine +5, +6, +7.. no worries. Also he might be hungrier later today, it's ok to feed him, this cycle is a wash due to rebound. By the way, during the average day, how many ounces would you say he eats? Also you might want to note in your SS that last night was full moon if you don't already have it. You never know when that info will come in handy.

I see you posted.. Yeah, he's probably a little lethargic due to the HC he got last night and I doubt the Karo helps that much either. Carbs do the same thing to them that they do to us.
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Carolyn and Spot said:
Whenever he pees midcycle is fine +5, +6, +7.. no worries. Also he might be hungrier later today, it's ok to feed him, this cycle is a wash due to rebound. By the way, during the average day, how many ounces would you say he eats? Also you might want to note in your SS that last night was full moon if you don't already have it. You never know when that info will come in handy.

I see you posted.. Yeah, he's probably a little lethargic due to the HC he got last night and I doubt the Karo helps that much either. Carbs do the same thing to them that they do to us.
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Average day? whatever he can get! Seriously...I have been trying not to limit him too much because he hasn't gained any of the weight back from when he became diabetic. He was around 14 lbs, he's 9.5 now..maybe 10 at most and he eats a lot. A can and 1/4 of ff at both meals(his brother get the rest of the other can) and during the day I've been giving him a snack(a teaspoon or so of ff or liv-a-littles or grandma Lucy's freeze dried tuna) each time I test him and then some, so I'd say he eats about 4 cans of ff by himself per day ! yikes. then he also wants what i eat..and i sometimes give him chicken or something like that but only a taste. one of the reasons I'm getting his blood tested again. He's like a shark..he's an eating machine.

I have had no idea of when the best times to give him snacks are to work with insulin until the other day when Kathy wrote something about +2 and +9 but if I only fed Alex then he would fade away I think and drive me to drink...

HELP!!!! see what I mean.I need you :)
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Well that could be key to your regulation problems Caryl.. if he's eating that much and still underweight, it's quite likely his tapazole dose is not where it needs to be and his hyper T is unregulated. That much food is going to interfere with insulin use, however, you absolutely must not restrict food in a cat who is losing weight. You did mention last night he's going this week for another test right for tap adjustment?
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Carolyn and Spot said:
Well that could be key to your regulation problems Caryl.. if he's eating that much and still underweight, it's quite likely his tapazole dose is not where it needs to be and his hyper T is unregulated. That much food is going to interfere with insulin use, however, you absolutely must not restrict food in a cat who is losing weight. You did mention last night he's going this week for another test right for tap adjustment?
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I'm taking him for his tests Wednesday at 10AM
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Good, let's hope they can tweak that dose to help him out .. til then, feed him whatever he wants. Low carb of course! LOL
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Talk to Ronnie - she's the expert on mini meals (mm) - she can tell you how she fed Luna and maybe a similar program will work for Alex.

Thanks for the explanation Carolyn - I'm learning too with this - and I get what you're saying - makes total sense.
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Here's the limit of my expertise: Sending pee-on-time vines!!! :mrgreen:

This is all starting to make sense, which is grand. :smile:
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI

Kathy and Kitty said:
Here's the limit of my expertise: Sending pee-on-time vines!!! :mrgreen:

This is all starting to make sense, which is grand. :smile:
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isn't it though???

I'll be off for a little bit the cable guy is here..
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410

Oh yeah I'm freaking out..no no no I'm not thinking about IT nailbite_smile . I'm going to wait for Alex to pee and then I have to go fix a friend's computer ......
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410

Carolyn and Spot said:
Is HI 500 or 600 on your meter? And no worries, he's coming down.
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HI is 500 on my meter...he'll probably be up again by pmps

ETA: I havent been able to get Alex to pee for me yet and aI have to run out..it wont be till about + 7ish now... I hope that's okay :?
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410

When you return see if he peed and if not, then maybe syringe some water into him. Also how much water do you add to his food?

If using a ff can - I fill 3/4 can of water and mix into the food. Yes, it's a lot, but I can tell you that all my girls pee buckets as a result!
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410

Hillary, how do you get them to EAT the stuff?? If I water Kitty's food down that much, he refuses it. Even if I enhance with chicken dust...
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410

Carolyn and Spot said:
uhh.. no syringing water LOL he's just holding it for now, let him pee naturally
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Mission accomplished but I got so excited that I'd miss the whole thing I wasted two sticks..I tried to grab one but you can't grab just one
kind of like potato chips....

Ketone count is.....drumroll plz


between negative and trace

(on ketodiastix)
all 3 of them :mrgreen:

ETA: Look at his number :)
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex AMPS HI,+5~410

Kathy and Kitty said:
Hillary, how do you get them to EAT the stuff?? If I water Kitty's food down that much, he refuses it. Even if I enhance with chicken dust...
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I put like 3 tablespoons of water in both Alex's and Jackson's food all of the time, and one in all of their snacks
 
good job.. now go pee on a 4th one and see if you get the same result ;-) Sometimes it looks like between neg and trace and really it's just what a wet one looks like

Loving that 281.. big drop from HI.. over 200 pts.. he might bounce some more, be ready to breathe through it
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
now go pee on a 4th one and see if you get the same result Sometimes it looks like between neg and trace and really it's just what a wet one looks like
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LOL! I always wondered what a wet one looked like, but it never occurred to me to get creative! Now THAT is resourceful. :lol:

Lovin' that 281. :-D
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
good job.. now go pee on a 4th one and see if you get the same result ;-) Sometimes it looks like between neg and trace and really it's just what a wet one looks like

Loving that 281.. big drop from HI.. over 200 pts.. he might bounce some more, be ready to breathe through it
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I was shockered at 281..I thought he'd be back at HI by now!I've been half breathing all day :)
That could partially be my sinus infection ...no I don't think so. I purposely stayed away so I wouldn't smell Alex too often.(He actually KNOWS what "let me smell your mouth" means...poor little kitty)

I'm glad you put that winky guy there, Carolyn...I was a little confused at first. I get messed up with negative , wet negative and trace also..they should make one of them a totally different color. I'm staying with 4.75 tonight right?
 
Kathy and Kitty said:
Carolyn and Spot said:
now go pee on a 4th one and see if you get the same result Sometimes it looks like between neg and trace and really it's just what a wet one looks like
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LOL! I always wondered what a wet one looked like, but it never occurred to me to get creative! Now THAT is resourceful. :lol:

Lovin' that 281. :-D
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what wet one are YOU talkin' bout Missy?

(I almost did it too...)
 
Glad you know the difference, and I wasn't joking, I was indicating my amusement at the only way to tell for sure what result you are looking at. :razz: Check his dehydration level please. You know how to do a skin test right? Pull the shoulder skin straight up and see if it snaps back or slides back.
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
Glad you know the difference, and I wasn't joking, I was indicating my amusement at the only way to tell for sure what result you are looking at. :razz: Check his dehydration level please. You know how to do a skin test right? Pull the shoulder skin straight up and see if it snaps back or slides back.
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This will be difficult but I'll see if i can tell..he's lost a bunch of weight so he has some saggy skin issues. After we get the diabetes more under control, we've been thinking about a nip and tuck here and there...
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
Glad you know the difference, and I wasn't joking, I was indicating my amusement at the only way to tell for sure what result you are looking at. :razz: Check his dehydration level please. You know how to do a skin test right? Pull the shoulder skin straight up and see if it snaps back or slides back.
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okay his skin seems to snap more than slide. and his stick had a slightly pinkier look to it than mine :-D
 
lol

Ok if it snaps back, he's fine, if it slides down slowly you might want to think about fluids. I don't know what his cardio issues are other than murmur, but heart kitties are not supposed to be getting fluids, so that's up to you and your vet. Just a precaution on that which you might want to look in to.. So with that in mind, soup up his food more than usual.

I took some nyquil about an hour ago and I'm about to pass out, so I'm going to nap and I'll be back.. Hold your PM dose at 4.75 and let's see +2 and 4 tonight before we decide on whether he needs dosecrease tomorrow.

Edit I see you're back and he's not so much dehydrated. Keep an eye on that, we don't want that to become an issue.
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
lol

Ok if it snaps back, he's fine, if it slides down slowly you might want to think about fluids. I don't know what his cardio issues are other than murmur, but heart kitties are not supposed to be getting fluids, so that's up to you and your vet. Just a precaution on that which you might want to look in to.. So with that in mind, soup up his food more than usual.

I took some nyquil about an hour ago and I'm about to pass out, so I'm going to nap and I'll be back.. Hold your PM dose at 4.75 and let's see +2 and 4 tonight before we decide on whether he needs dosecrease tomorrow.

Edit I see you're back and he's not so much dehydrated. Keep an eye on that, we don't want that to become an issue.
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Okay, Have a good nap! aah Nyquil :)

I don't think that's an issue, I mean dehydration. I once talked to my vet, who I talk to every day because he's also my best friend, about fluids and his heart because I read the heart thing here and Alex was getting them at the time bid for ketosis. He had said it was ok at that time because Alex wasn't getting them every day but for the problem at hand. I have the fluids for ketosis, and because they're good to have.

Alex's only cardio problem is the murmur. He doesn't have cardiomyopathy or anything like that (knock wood). He and his brother(litter-mate) both developed the murmur at the exact same time.The only thing they don't share is the diabetes (knock wood again for Jackson)

(I just did call him and he said that when he sees Alex he always checks and dehydration isn't a 'general' problem of his).

Okay on the rest..see you later :)
 
kathy - I don't know how I get them to consume all that water - but they do. I also use a 5 ounce can, fill it and share that among 3 bowls.

and they eat it all or at least most of it. remember i have three cats eating here and well let's just say the litter box is always full now!

I started adding the extra to help Sydney keep flushing her kidneys and protect them. so now it's just the way things are...
 
Hillary & Maui said:
kathy - I don't know how I get them to consume all that water - but they do. I also use a 5 ounce can, fill it and share that among 3 bowls.

and they eat it all or at least most of it. remember i have three cats eating here and well let's just say the litter box is always full now!

I started adding the extra to help Sydney keep flushing her kidneys and protect them. so now it's just the way things are...
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I have 3 litter pans and they're always full, and it's mostly Alex :lol:

for such a puny little cat he sure does pee a lot (he's really not puny, he just used to be a lot 'bigger')
 
Ok I'm up again for the moment. Since Alex is a diabetic, he is by nature dehydrated, so always be watchful and use that skin test often.

Hope you see this before you shoot tonight but if you don't, we can do it in the morning. I'm thinking he's gonna bounce like a big dog, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that looking at his SS I think you are safe to go to 5u tonight. If you miss this message, that's ok, you can do it in the morning. You have been doing this long enough that you know how to intervene and we can backpedal if we need to.
 
Re: 3/1/10 Alex PMPS 264,+2~260,+4~294

Carolyn and Spot said:
Ok I'm up again for the moment. Since Alex is a diabetic, he is by nature dehydrated, so always be watchful and use that skin test often.

Hope you see this before you shoot tonight but if you don't, we can do it in the morning. I'm thinking he's gonna bounce like a big dog, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that looking at his SS I think you are safe to go to 5u tonight. If you miss this message, that's ok, you can do it in the morning. You have been doing this long enough that you know how to intervene and we can backpedal if we need to.
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I didn't see it before I shot :(
 
Don't worry, you can get it in the morning. I was too tired to think it through all the way and when I woke up I thought "why not tonight" so don't worry. Besides, maybe Alex has another trick for tonight.

Edited to add.. nice PMPS!
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
Don't worry, you can get it in the morning. I was too tired to think it through all the way and when I woke up I thought "why not tonight" so don't worry. Besides, maybe Alex has another trick for tonight.

Edited to add.. nice PMPS!
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Sorry I took so long I'm just eating dinner now and came over during a commercial of...well never mind :)

How can you tell he's going to bounce? I don't get that STILL after all this time

Trick? Alex? naaaah lol
 
Couple things..
1. Has he ever *not* bounced? :lol:
2. Whenever a cat swings more than 150pts or so on Lantus, there's gonna be an equal and opposite reaction. The harder they come down, the harder they come back up.

Speaking of Lantus, how much do you have left? We need to talk about levemir when you get close to the end of it. Should be cheaper for you in MD than Lantus and might be a nice alternative for you. Action is the same as Lantus.
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
Couple things..
1. Has he ever *not* bounced? :lol:
2. Whenever a cat swings more than 150pts or so on Lantus, there's gonna be an equal and opposite reaction. The harder they come down, the harder they come back up.

Speaking of Lantus, how much do you have left? We need to talk about levemir when you get close to the end of it. Should be cheaper for you in MD than Lantus and might be a nice alternative for you. Action is the same as Lantus.
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I have a whole box of unopened pens and 2 left in the box I opened.
I also have 2 cartridges from Canada unopened.....that should be about...... :? a year

Why would I go to MD to buy Levemir when I live in NJ? :lol:

seriously would it be better for him...



Maybe I know some of Leo's relatives i was thinking the other day....in NJ :)
 
ehh.. not sure why I momentarily thought you were in MD. must be the nyquil. Nope I was thinking of your dosing and if you were running low I was gonna recommend Lev to save money as it's generally cheaper. You seem all set though. :)
 
Carolyn and Spot said:
ehh.. not sure why I momentarily thought you were in MD. must be the nyquil. Nope I was thinking of your dosing and if you were running low I was gonna recommend Lev to save money as it's generally cheaper. You seem all set though. :)
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Yeah my fridge runneth over with Lantus...that was amazing that I came in when they had the solostar pen deal . I really haven't paid much so far....thank goodness. The test strips more than make up for it :)
 
Libby and Lucy said:
I wonder if Alex is saving up for a big drop tonight?
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Either that Libby, or he'll end up HI again! You know my little boy...he's an 'attention Ho' :razz: (that's what Jackson has been mumbling a lot, anyway)
poor Jackson cat_pet_icon
 
He may come down later in cycle.. regardless, yep bump to 5u. You might not be there long but let's see what we can get going with basal dosing.
 
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