25-Jan: Tyler &M : AMPS=185: +2=175 :+3.5=139

[PussCatPrince - GA]

Yesterday Condo 24th Jan

Ty managed to start my day by being so busy eating his morning meal he left it too late to get to the litter tray for a wee. So mega pee puddle on the kitchen floor and a trail from there to the tray by the shower-room *sigh*

His diarrhea is now a runny brown/yellowy colour not that anyone really needs to know that do they , except for moi , himself and the vet.

We really liked the vet we saw. He was certainly sharp and on the ball. Had a lovely calm manner. Problem is that he is just filling in over the summer hols as he recently retired .

He took blood for assorted tests and I should hear back later today about those. Meanwhile I add a dose of peptosyl to the mix for Ty's diarrhea. Diet to remain a bland poached chicken only affair.
Ty is also getting SEB, a bit of pumpkin and the s.boulardii. I may up the s.boulardii per a post I read on here. I'm giving one capsule a day but someone else is or has given two.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

What did the vet say about the diarrhea? Is Tyler staying hydrated?

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

What did the vet say about the diarrhea? Is Tyler staying hydrated?

What a day. Complete and utter liquid diarrhea part into the shower room litter tray which is fine but the stepping out, walking about & sitting down on lino and bedroom with poo covered paws and bum , not so good. I think he is fed up of my cleaning him up. He thought about trying to get under one of the beds. That would be a nope Tyler.

The vet gave some peptosyl to dose Tyler with once a day for 4 days . If no change after the weekend then I need to get a stool sample in a clean container as the one I did bring in was a bit too contaminated with cat litter & the container I had to hand. It is the time to get results from the lab which is why it is not requested for tomorrow.

Tyler is to stay on the poached chicken diet.

Yes. Tyler is hydrated and it is noted that his skin and coat is in good condition. That Ty is bright, alert, responsive , which he is.

Vet said that diarrhea in geriatric cats can be difficult to solve. He couldn't feel, see or hear anything abnormal or out of order. He took blood for assorted tests. Those are now back as the vet has just phoned . I may be able to obtain the results tomorrow or after the weekend.

Tys kidney numbers have altered a bit for the worse. So definitely no more metacam - not that I was particularly giving it - and he has prescribed a suspension of garbapentin for aches, pain, arthritis. I need to get back down to the city to pick up the consent form from the clinic and take to the one pharmacy that deals with the vet clinic scripts.

Vet did make me pause and have a little think about the managing of Ty's BG numbers. This vet is all up for home testing & totally understood why I had taken Ty off renal dry food. He states that the diabetes comes before the CKD & so the decision was a good one . He also said though that vets prefer higher numbers from the norm , particularly in geriatric cats , as getting the regulation can be very hard to come by and then to maintain . That a geriatric cat may not benefit so much so in terms of quality of life by adjustments and interventions. Not to say keeping a cat comfy , cared for and loved is not the aim but that sometimes when someone is 90+ human years , peace , quiet and generally being allowed to be geriatric without too much change happening in or around them may be the better thing overall.

I have reread on the pro-biotic s.boulardii. It is written that if diarrhea worsens despite being given this , to stop administering. This I shall do.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

All sounds good.

Have you been in @Stacy & Asia's condos? Asia is 21 years old.

Has any of the pros been in your condos in regards to the diarrhea?

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

All sounds good.
Have you been in @Stacy & Asia's condos? Asia is 21 years old.

Yes. I know Asia is 21 and that Squallie is 19.

There wasn't a hint of a suggestion that having a normal BG range in a geriatric cat wasn't the ticket. It was more about the achieving & maintaining of this and what is involved for the cat. I have put this clumsily. The nuance is more subtle.

Has any of the pros been in your condos in regards to the diarrhea?

I do not know what this means.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

Yes. I know Asia is 21 and that Squallie is 19.

There wasn't a hint of a suggestion that having a normal BG range in a geriatric cat wasn't the ticket. It was more about the achieving & maintaining of this and what is involved for the cat. I have put this clumsily. The nuance is more subtle.

I do not know what this means.

This I will say, especially since diabetes diagnosis, vets do things the way they are trained to do them, and some things are just very out of their wheelhouse, FD being one (for most vets) and nutrition being another. Heck, I don’t know too many human doctors that believe in vitamins and supplements. It’s not their fault, but what I mean to point out is, don’t let that rain cloud follow you around, they are not gods and they don’t have all the right answers. Do what you are comfortable doing and trust that Ty can do the rest. I bet you can get his diarrhea under control, old age or not. Same with diabetes, not in a million years did I think Asia could get somewhere that someone would refer to as “regulated” and I would still say she isn’t quite there, but I hoped I could and I tried, and she’s done better than I expected. I still haven’t lost hope for a possible remission and I don’t think I ever will. @Chris & China is proof that anything is possible there!

Regardless, I agree about idea of not wanting to mess with them too much or rather, you have to weigh the pros and cons of what is worth it vs not, but think this, would his life be improved with less diarrhea and better glucose control? If the answer is yes, you are being supportive where you can so the other things that maybe you won’t or can’t treat, have less complications to make them worse. If those higher numbers the vet is suggesting are above the renal threshold, you are only helping the CKD to progress.

Let’s see what some others have to say about all this: @Marje and Gracie @Wendy&Neko @Gill & George

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

The vet gave some peptosyl to dose Tyler with once a day for 4 days .

I'm guessing the active ingredient in peptosyl is the same as the active ingredient in our Pepto-Bismol (Bismuth Subsalicylate)

This should NOT be given to cats because it's a salicylate which can actually poison them.

More information in this article

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

I think some of you have misunderstood the intent & meaning in the words. I did write that the nuance was subtle.

He didn't make any recommendation or suggestions about numbers at all. Neither did he say anything remotely derogatory, discouraging or detrimental about Tyler's well being or health or my handling of this. He was encouraging.

Back to the diarrhea for a moment. Ty's had this for a week now and it is getting worse day by day. Pumpkin or not. Plain poached chicken or not. S.Boulardii or not. As written , the peptosyl is to be strictly for four days only and no more.

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

edit to add.
It is a long weekend here. The vet clinic will be open to an emergency & I can drop in the fecal sample anytime however the labs ,which are not local at all , will be closed.

If anyone has suggestions about the liquid diarrhea I would be pleased to read.

Summary:
The situation over the stools has been slowly but surely worsening since the beginning of January. Notes can be seen in the Spreadsheet. it goes from noting soft stools to today, a complete liquid diarrhea.

Pumpkin started around the 10th
SEB since 17th
Boulardii since 22nd Jan <---- however I have now read that if diarrhea worsens with this , then to stop.
Today right now is the evening of 25th Jan.

Sundry: The weather is very hot. The diet is poached chicken . His appetite is healthy. He is well hydrated. He hoovers from the kitchen floor.

Extensive blood work done* AFAIK which did not highlight anything other than a kidney related number had worsened a bit. Not to stage III. He remains stage II.
Stool sample a fail on my part due to my collection method.

*
Complete blood count
Cytology blood smear in combinations with .... ( does not appear on printout)
Eclipse Sick animal panel.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Can you remind me why the plain boiled chicken? Some cats have a chicken allergy. Just wondering if a novel protein (lamb?) might be worth an experiment.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

We have no medical insights to offer. Just friendship and prayers for Ty to get rid of squits and feel well soon!

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

Can you remind me why the plain boiled chicken? Some cats have a chicken allergy. Just wondering if a novel protein (lamb?) might be worth an experiment.

What do you mean please? It is in the notes. He was having stool problems before I gave the poached chicken.

Ty is being given poached chicken because it is bland re his diarrhea and that he will eat it & has a good appetite for this.
Perhaps that he now has a sudden onset of allergy to this should be considered of course & it has crossed my mind , particularly for the Iams grain free chicken canned food which is the only low phos, low carb that we can get ( which he has not been given for days now).

You think red meat might be better than white? Lamb quality is not good here as best is all exported & also it is not the season.

 

[Steph & Quintus & L & O]

That a geriatric cat may not benefit so much so in terms of quality of life by adjustments and interventions. Not to say keeping a cat comfy , cared for and loved is not the aim but that sometimes when someone is 90+ human years , peace , quiet and generally being allowed to be geriatric without too much change happening in or around them may be the better thing overall.

It was more about the achieving & maintaining of this and what is involved for the cat.

I think some of you have misunderstood the intent & meaning in the words. I did write that the nuance was subtle.

He didn't make any recommendation or suggestions about numbers at all. Neither did he say anything remotely derogatory, discouraging or detrimental about Tyler's well being or health or my handling of this. He was encouraging.

If I understand you correctly, it's about keeping in mind that our "interventions" (all the care we do) are part of the "quality of life" of the cat, and putting that in the balance too. e.g. lower numbers and better regulation will make a cat feel better, but we need to keep in sight what "minus" is involved to get to that better (or maintain it) and take it into account in our evaluation of what we do and don't do. Same goes for diagnostic tests, treatments, etc. Is that it or am I just adding more to your "being misunderstood" frustration? if it is the cases I apologize.

If anyone has suggestions about the liquid diarrhea I would be pleased to read.

Depending on how much of a priority it is to stop the diarrhea, boiled rice? This is what we give here. Now, I'm aware that carbs+++ clearly (d'uh) but... a) they're slow carbs, so absorption may not be as fast b) as my vet said, with old cats we're always compromising, so if it's more important right now to stop the diarrhea and a few days in higher numbers is an OK price to pay, could be worth trying.

If giardia lamblia exists in your part of the world, make sure they check the stool sample for it, if possible with the antigen test rather than microscopic detection, which detects only 70% or so of infections upon initial analysis. (I'm battling with it as a human host and it's a real f***er. More common in cats and dogs.)

Sending vines and everything, and all my sympathy regarding poo in the house. Had a tiny bit of that experience with Q (blind cat stepping in his poo) and I can only imagine how miserable it is for you.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

An important thing to note is that if a cat has low vitamin B12 levels, has exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, or has hyperthyroidism.

Has Ty ever had a GI panel to check his cobalamin (B12), folate, and TLI levels? If he potentially has IBD and since he is elderly, his B12 levels might be too low. If so, he needs vit B12 shots (cyanocobalamin); the methylB12 you are giving him won’t help.

I believe I sent you the information for Emergency Stop with the S. boulardi....let me know if I didn’t....but it won’t help if his B12 is low. If you know his B12 is normal, then I’d try the emergency stop with the S. boulardi.

Many vines for your sweet boy.

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

An important thing to note is that if a cat has low vitamin B12 levels, has exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, or has hyperthyroidism.

Has Ty ever had a GI panel to check his cobalamin (B12), folate, and TLI levels? If he potentially has IBD and since he is elderly, his B12 levels might be too low. If so, he needs vit B12 shots (cyanocobalamin); the methylB12 you are giving him won’t help.

I believe I sent you the information for Emergency Stop with the S. boulardi....let me know if I didn’t....but it won’t help if his B12 is low. If you know his B12 is normal, then I’d try the emergency stop with the S. boulardi.

Many vines for your sweet boy.

Thanks @Marje and Gracie . Not to spare your blushes but you are a treasure.
I have already done the s.Boulardi Emergency Stop method. Found it from one of your posts on here. <--- edit here to add. Ah yes. I did read previously in the post with the link about when Boulardii will not work.

His thyroid is fine. Was tested December. His weight is stable at around 5.3kg . No weight loss.
I believe a GI panel would have been done but the stool sample I took in was no good . I will be collecting after the holiday weekend for that to be sent to the lab.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thanks @Marje and Gracie . Not to spare your blushes but you are a treasure.
I have already done the s.Boulardi Emergency Stop method. Found it from one of your posts on here. <--- edit here to add. Ah yes. I did read previously in the post with the link about when Boulardii will not work.

His thyroid is fine. Was tested December. His weight is stable at around 5.3kg . No weight loss.
I believe a GI panel would have been done but the stool sample I took in was no good . I will be collecting after the holiday weekend for that to be sent to the lab.

The GI Panel is a blood test. In the US, it is normally sent to Texas A&M University and it includes cobalamin, folate, TLI (for EPI), and specfPL for pancreatitis. Maybe with that knowledge, you could ask your vet if there is a lab there in NZ that has a similar test.

If the Emergency Stop doesn’t work and you backed off and then tried again per the instructions, then I’m thinking one of the other issues is going on. Poor Ty!!!

 

[PussCatPrince - GA]

The GI Panel is a blood test. In the US, it is normally sent to Texas A&M University and it includes cobalamin, folate, TLI (for EPI), and specfPL for pancreatitis. Maybe with that knowledge, you could ask your vet if there is a lab there in NZ that has a similar test.

If the Emergency Stop doesn’t work and you backed off and then tried again per the instructions, then I’m thinking one of the other issues is going on. Poor Ty!!!

Thank you. I will check with the clinic on Tuesday about what else they will be testing for & what perhaps should/can be added.

SNAP fPL and Spec fPL are available for cats
however, feline specific trypsin-like immunoreactivity (fTLI) is not currently available in New Zealand

Yes. I did back off the boulardi per the instructions when it was clear the diarrhea had worsened .

Ty is actually happy enough. Doing his thing best he can on his wobbly legs. If it wasn't for the fact that he needs his rear end cleaned at the moment and we've witnessed the worsening diarrhea one wouldn't know there was an issue. Ty's only apparent discomfort & upset is in being cleaned.

 

[Myagi (GA) and Heidi]

Ty is actually happy enough.

Ty's only apparent discomfort & upset is in being cleaned.

Soldier on.

And that is why we should never lose sight of the whole cat! Hang in there, M. Ty is.