25/02 Angie AMPS=? +2=155 PMPS=144 +2=122 +4.5=65 +6=86

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GraceAndAngie

GraceAndAngie

Member Since 2013
Good morning everyone

(It's Monday morning in Australia).

I've just read everybody else's condos from yesterday and today, looked at all of your cats profiles and spreadsheets. So many of your stories made me cry. I can't believe what a wonderful group of people you all are. I am so inspired by what you and your cats have been through - I realise that many cats have been or are in more difficult situations than Angie, with multiple complications, and that cat's have pulled through from worse. I haven't had much sleep because I've been up testing Angie so maybe I'm extra emotional. She held still for me and purred for two days testing even though on Friday I was poking her up to 8 times each hour to get a droplet, even though I poked through her ear twice, and even though once she bled on me and on the floor. She was as sweet as pie. Last night and this morning she got a bit fed up. She still lay on my lap but kept pulling away her head. I couldn't get a few samples last night and wasn't able to get her AMBG this morning. She's a bit worried about the pen since I got her good and she bled every where. She's a trusting kitty though and keeps looking at me with big eyes "I don't understand, but I'll do it if you want me too".

Ang has been super excited by her new food. I can't believe I've gone through difficulty with dry food for months when she much prefers what is better for her after all!

I have a few lingo questions:
- I get that a condo is a daily thread, but whats a condo?
- What does LL mean?
- What are healing vines? Healing vibes? Is there a story there?
- What does GA mean?

Yesterdays discussion is here.

Yesterday
AMPS 137, 1 unit, free fed dry food
+2 --- 49, ate dry food hungrily as if she hadn't had any yet that morning
+2.5 - 67
+3 --- 86
+4 --- 130
+5 --- 113
+6 --- 157
+7 --- 140
+8 --- 146, took away dry food
+10 -- not able to get reading
PMBG not able to get reading, no insulin, fed her 55 g (4 oz) cat mince (kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidneys, vitamins mix)
+1 --- 198
+2 --- 164
+6 --- 146
+10 -- 128

Today
AMBG not able to get reading, fed her 55 g (4 oz) cat mince (kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidneys, vitamins mix)
+2 --- 155


I was thinking of doing +4, +5 and +6 to see where her nadir is and then go back to two hourly readings to give her more space.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

Hi Grace! Angie sounds like such a sweetie, so patient and understanding. Testing does get easier with time, I promise! You're lucky she's so cooperative. You could always give her a treat after testing to create a positive association.

Condo comes from cat condo (like a cat tree or cat tower.)

LL = Lantus Land (the forum we're posting in!)

Healing Vines, or fill-in-the-blank vine, are just good wishes.

GA refers to cats that have passed on. It can be an acronym for Gone Ahead, Gone Across, or Guardian Angel.

Hope you and Angie have a great day! That's wonderful news that she has taken to the wet food so well. Good kitty! cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

Courtney and Kismet said:
You could always give her a treat after testing to create a positive association.
Click to expand...

Ooh yes, I do. I give her a little chicken piece. She's worked out that bit already and runs to her food bowl for her treat as soon as I put her down! That reminds me - the chicken added up quite a bit yesterday so maybe I should be feeding her less! I have to watch her weight as she tends to get pudding-ish.

Cat condo - as in the expensive and ugly thing that sits in the lounge room corner and the cats won't so much as look at? Got it.

Thanks for the dictionary additions!
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

One of things that you can do to alleviate the pain on her ears is after you've poked her, got your sample, stopped the bleeding, you can put a small dab of Neosporin with Pain Relief on it, and rub it on her ear. It'll help, and hopefully will make your next poke a bit easier on you both. Good luck! She's looking lovely!
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

hi Grace

fantastic with the testing and the switch to wet - guess Angie knew what was best for her as well as tastiest :-D

Regarding the nadir, after a while you do figure out when the nadir is but - and here's the catch - it can change, sometimes from day to day.
So, it could be +6 today and +4 tomorrow :o just one of those gotchas from our kitties.

With Honey, I figured out that she dropped early - usually +2, slowed down but still dropped until around +5 and then came back up after that.
But, it could change - particularly early on when we were getting dose right.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

Angela & Blackie & 8 Others said:
One of things that you can do to alleviate the pain on her ears is after you've poked her, got your sample, stopped the bleeding, you can put a small dab of Neosporin with Pain Relief on it, and rub it on her ear. It'll help, and hopefully will make your next poke a bit easier on you both. Good luck! She's looking lovely!
Click to expand...

Has anybody's cat got contact dermatitis from using Neosporin or another bacitracin cream product?

I'd like to use some pain relief for her but Angie has sensitive skin and bacitracin creams are irritants to some humans. She had a bad skin reaction as a young kitty to a flea collar and I have been hesitant to try other chemicals on her skin since. The collar wasn't on for very long - her hair fell out, her skin blistered and the hair never grew back from around where the collar was. Since then I only put a collar on her while travelling or settling her into a new house.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

Sorry, yet another question (the more answers you guys give me, the more questions it seems I have!): will she get a nadir if she hasn't had insulin last night or this morning? Or am I expecting to see her levels keep on climbing?
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155

Happy Monday Grace. Angie is looking pretty good today! I'm glad she loved her wet food. I feed mine raw food, but it's manufactured so I don't have to do the prep and get the right mix of organ and meat. Probably a bit more expensive than doing your own though. Mine eat kangaroo too, it's one of their favourites and is on tonight's dinner menu. :-D

Some more answers to definitions I've heard:
condo - the place you spend time and people come to visit you.
vines - I've heard that at one time it was vibes but someone did a typo and it's stuck since then.

Since you didn't give insulin today, there isn't going to be a nadir as that's a measure of the peak insulin effectiveness. People who aren't giving insulin will typically test before feeding (if you can) and them about 3-4 hours later to see if the pancreas is kicking in by itself and bring down the blood sugar. That just means you might not need to test as much today.

For the ears, you may or may not have something called Neosporin in Australia. In Canada it's called Polysporin. You can get it in the first aid section at the chemist and you want the gel with pain relief in it.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155, +9 160

Hi everyone,

I'd like to get Angie back onto insulin. She has missed two doses while switching to wet food. I don't know what dose to start her on. The protocol says 0.25 units per ideal body weight :. 1 unit. That seems too high to me though, given that she had a low on Sunday on that dose while eating dry food. Would 1/2 a unit be ok? I feel like I'm stabbing in the dark.

Also, I tested Angie for ketones using my Optium Xceed meter that tests for blood glucose and ketones. She had 1.8 mg/dL.

Recap:

Today
AMBG not able to get enough for a sample, fed her 55 g (4 oz) cat mince (kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidneys, vitamins mix)
+2 --- 155
+6 --- Angie under neighbour's house (she clearly needed a break from my inexperience with the lancet)
+9 --- 160
Ketones 1.8 mg/dL (0.1 mmol/L)

Yesterday
AMPS 137, 1 unit, free fed dry food
+2 --- 49, ate dry food hungrily as if she hadn't had any yet that morning
+2.5 - 67
+3 --- 86
+4 --- 130
+5 --- 113
+6 --- 157
+7 --- 140
+8 --- 146, took away dry food
+10 -- not able to get reading
PMBG not able to get reading, no insulin, fed her 55 g (4 oz) cat mince (kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidneys, vitamins mix)
+1 --- 198
+2 --- 164
+6 --- 146
+10 -- 128

Thanks so much for your help!
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155, +9 160

Hi again Grace. I don't give dose advice and unfortunately there's not anyone on right now who does. Dyana on the east coast of the US is up quite early and might be able to help in time. How flexible are you with your shot time if she's a bit late getting on?

It's also important for a dose expert to know it's been 36 hours since she last got insulin. Since she is still under renal values (under 200) even without insulin, it may not hurt her to go another cycle without insulin if you don't get an answer in time.

And another convention thing. If you have a question, go back to your first post and select the "?" icon. You currently have the heart selected. Then change the subject line to add a short form of the question. Your new post might be something like "25/2 Angie AMBG? +2 155 +9 160 - Dose ?"
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155, +9 160 - Dose?

First of all, Congratulations on getting her transitioned to an all wet diet. :thumbup

It's hard to tell you what dose with not much information, and I don't know your situation as far as are you home during the day to monitor her or do you have to work outside the home and are away most of the day?

Getting the Pre Shot tests will be the most important because you don't want to shoot insulin if she's too low.

If you are going to be home during the day to monitor and test her, then I think I would start with 1/2 unit twice a day, and I would get the following test: pre shot, +2, +4 and +6 during both cycles day and night (at first) just to see how she does on the dose. How does that sound?
Please have plenty of supplies on hand: test strips and high carb food or syrup.

This will get easier for you both ;-)
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155, +9 160, PMPS 144, +2 122

Thanks Wendy,

I ended up getting some help from Vyktors Mum. I gave her 0.75.

I'll remember your subject line changes for next time.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155, +9 160

Hi Dyana,

You were writing at the time that I was dosing and writing. I wish I had read your's first. I haven't been able to sleep after giving her the 0.75, worrying that it will be too much.

I'm at home at the moment most of the time but recovering from illness. So, I can stay up and test her and then test her again during the day. But tomorrow night I will need to sleep properly (10 hours for me at the moment). 3 nights in a row is too much of a risk as sleeping has been a major factor in my getting better.

I have got my test strips and high carb tinned food supplies.

Dyana said:
First of all, Congratulations on getting her transitioned to an all wet diet. :thumbup

It's hard to tell you what dose with not much information, and I don't know your situation as far as are you home during the day to monitor her or do you have to work outside the home and are away most of the day?

Getting the Pre Shot tests will be the most important because you don't want to shoot insulin if she's too low.

If you are going to be home during the day to monitor and test her, then I think I would start with 1/2 unit twice a day, and I would get the following test: pre shot, +2, +4 and +6 during both cycles day and night (at first) just to see how she does on the dose. How does that sound?
Please have plenty of supplies on hand: test strips and high carb food or syrup.

This will get easier for you both ;-)
Click to expand...
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG? +2 155, +9 160, PMPS 144, +2 122

I wanted to stop by and welcome you! FDMB is be best place you never wanted to be. It is really tough at first and you don't get much sleep, but it will be so worth it. Big hugs! You are a great bean.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG+2=155 +9=160 PMPS=144 +4.5=65 +6=86

Hi guys .. I missed your condo yesterday, so just wanted to stop by and say welcome to lantus land! I think we all know about the "emotional state" your in right now, been there, done that! But you've found the best place to be and soon you guys will be on the road to recovery!
 
Re: 25/02 Angie AMBG+2=155 +9=160 PMPS=144 +4.5=65 +6=86

It looks like 0.75 IU was a good amount for today.

Today
AMBG not able to get enough for a sample, fed her 55 g (4 oz) cat mince (kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidneys, vitamins mix)
+2 --- 155
+6 --- Angie under neighbour's house (she clearly needed a break from my inexperience with the lancet)
+9 --- 160
Ketones 1.8 mg/dL (0.1 mmol/L)
PMPS 144
0.75 IU
+2 --- 122
+4.5 - 65
+6 --- 86

I'll get up again at 6.30 am for +10.

Poor Angie. It took me 5 pricks and 3 test strips (again) to get it tonight.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie +9=160 Ketones=0.1 mmol/L - is that bad?

Is 0.1 mmol/L ketones a problem? Is there a normal? The information that came with my meter said that under 0.6 mmol/L is normal in humans. I asked the question here in the health forum and was told that any ketones might be DKA. Does she need to go to the vet? It's 3am. Can it wait till 8.30?

Today
AMBG not able to get enough for a sample, fed her 55 g (4 oz) cat mince (kangaroo, beef, lamb, kidneys, vitamins mix)
+2 --- 155
+6 --- Angie under neighbour's house (she clearly needed a break from my inexperience with the lancet)
+9 --- 160
Ketones 1.8 mg/dL (0.1 mmol/L)
PMPS 144
0.75 IU
+2 --- 122
+4.5 - 65
+6 --- 86
 
Re: 25/02 Angie +9=160 Ketones=0.1 mmol/L - is that bad?

A couple of things first.

We call your thread a condo because it makes more sense to visit a "condo" than a thread. It was coined after kitty condos like the ones I linked.

Healing vines -- yes, there's a story. There was a vet tech that was very active in LL several years ago. She was notorious for her typos. She typed, "vines" when she meant "vibes." The typo passed the test of time. It's now LL lingo.

Are you using a meter to test for ketones and if so which one? If you're using a Precision Xtra meter, that is a low reading. I think ketones would need to be at 3 to be worried (I'm at work and I can't access the info I need on this.)

Can I ask where Vyktor's mom (aka Serryn) posted to your condo? I may have missed her post. We strongly discourage any advice regarding dosing that is not posted to the board. By keeping information, especially dose-related information in the public forum, you are protected from someone who may be giving you well intentioned information but it may be out of context given what has transpired. For example, we suggested you hold off on insulin given what Angie's numbers looked like and since you were transitioning to LC, canned food. What I would have suggested is that you spread meals out over the course of the cycle and test to see if the food was causing Angie's numbers to drop. (In a cat with a working pancreas, food stimulates the pancreas to release it's own insulin. As a result, a few hours after you feed, numbers will drop.)

Right now, there is no insulin depot. Angie's numbers may behave rather differently once the depot is formed. I would encourage you to get a +2 or a +3 test and decide from there when to test. Unless Angie is in low numbers, you really don't need to be testing every hour. You did a great job with testing yesterday. FWIW, I don't use Neosporin or any ointment on Gabby's ears unless I really poke her badly.
 
Re: 25/02 Angie +9=160 Ketones=0.1 mmol/L - is that bad?

We put a little pressure on Zener's ear for about 15 to 20 seconds after test and his ears are pretty good. We freehand the lancet and don't use the lancing device. What gauge lancet are you using? It's better to start with a little bit bigger one until the capillary bed is developed.
Liz
 
Hi Sienne,

Thanks so much for the relief on the ketone reading! I got quite worried when I was told that any reading could be DKA. I am using the Optium Exeed wich, from the info here http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes is the same as the Abbott Precision Xtra meter.

Serryn didn't post - she was having trouble with her computer. We went though it all on the phone because nobody was online at the time, I had waited an hour to see if anyone would post and I needed to make a decision. Serryn asked me for everything you guys had said to me. I hope that I didn't misinterpret information to her! She thought that 0.75 might be ok because her tank would be down. The +2 reading after 0.75 IU was 122. I got scared that I had given her too much insulin so I got up to do more readings. +4.5 was 65 and +6 was 86.

Serryn also suggested spreading out her meals - I don't know why I didn't at dinner, I had planned to but then (perhaps sleep deprived), I gave it to her all at once. I'll start doing that a breakfast.

I have done some bad pokes and tried calendula cream which Angie seems to enjoy.

Thanks so much for your help,
Grace
 
Anne & Zener said:
We put a little pressure on Zener's ear for about 15 to 20 seconds after test and his ears are pretty good. We freehand the lancet and don't use the lancing device. What gauge lancet are you using? It's better to start with a little bit bigger one until the capillary bed is developed.
Liz
Click to expand...

I was using 28 guage but the chemist gave me the wrong ones for the pen and they went through her ear a couple of times on setting one before I realised what the issue was. I'm now using the ones that came with the pen, guage 31.

If I poke her further down her ear (closer to the double flap), she bleeds a lot more than I need. It stops as soon as I put a little pressure on it but I still don't like it. If I poke her further up, I have trouble getting enough. I'm not sure which is worse! I've been doing a combination of both, depending on how frustrated she is or how desperate I am!
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
What I would have suggested is that you spread meals out over the course of the cycle and test to see if the food was causing Angie's numbers to drop. (In a cat with a working pancreas, food stimulates the pancreas to release it's own insulin. As a result, a few hours after you feed, numbers will drop.)
Click to expand...

Should I try this tomorrow? I can definitely spread out her meals. Would you do it with insulin or without it? Angie's AM insulin is due in 4.5 hours (it's now 4 am). I can post her pre-shot reading. I'm going to get some desperately needed sleep in the mean time.
 
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