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SashaV
Member Since 2020
You're probably right about the diet.
She'll do much better on low carb canned food.
And there's a chance you might not need the insulin, if the goal isn't to heal and cure.
But that requires some home testing, switching diet now, since you've already started insulin. What insulin are you using? Caninsulin? Or prozinc? Both works only a few hours after the shot, but regulation takes time. Until she's regulated her body can't use the food, so do yourself and your bank account some BETTER and cheaper food.
She'll do much better on low carb canned food.
And there's a chance you might not need the insulin, if the goal isn't to heal and cure.
But that requires some home testing, switching diet now, since you've already started insulin. What insulin are you using? Caninsulin? Or prozinc? Both works only a few hours after the shot, but regulation takes time. Until she's regulated her body can't use the food, so do yourself and your bank account some BETTER and cheaper food.
SashaV
Member Since 2020
@Bron and Sheba (GA) perhaps you can take a look?
SashaV
Member Since 2020
When she's better regulated, and that requires you test her blood glucose at home with a human meter. Caninsulin isn't the best insulin, it hits hard and fast. In and out fast, so even though you're giving it twice a day, which you should, it still doesn't last long enough. It might work fine, and it might not. We'll know when you test her BG.
But it might be worth doing the better food before considering doing something about the insulin. Get a meter first, gluco navii is the cheapest and works fine. Let's see a few days worth of testing, doing exactly what you're doing now. Depending on her numbers and the sad circumstances you might be able to do things differently than the rest of us.
Even the diabetic wet food is crap, and it's way to expensive considering you paying for poor quality food but great branding.
I don't know how much time she has left, but if it's only weeks, few months without considering the diabetes, I'm sure we can find a reasonable compromise so you can enjoy each other a little while longer
We see lots of diseases here, and diabetes for some is the least problem, for others the only one. But I'm sure we can help you too
I'm just giving you my thoughts, so don't be surprised or disappointed if someone comes and think different about this. I just wanted to respond and let you know someone was here
SashaV
Member Since 2020
Stop thinking your vet won't allow things. You're paying the vet for his services. If you're not happy, find a new one.
Most of us here use a vet for prescriptions of insulin, and that's it..... we don't go back.
We smile and say things are fine, if they ask, but we don't take their advice. Cause 9 out of 10 times they're completely wrong, and their clients end up here getting the right - free help, and most is well regulated and some in remission.
Give yourself a hug! You're doing great!
There's no way around testing at home I'm afraid. Every cat is different. So is their response to carbs. So you still need testing, maybe another insulin down the line, depending on your time frame. But other than that, toss the RC. Go back with it and get your money back.
Most of us here use a vet for prescriptions of insulin, and that's it..... we don't go back.
We smile and say things are fine, if they ask, but we don't take their advice. Cause 9 out of 10 times they're completely wrong, and their clients end up here getting the right - free help, and most is well regulated and some in remission.
Give yourself a hug! You're doing great!
There's no way around testing at home I'm afraid. Every cat is different. So is their response to carbs. So you still need testing, maybe another insulin down the line, depending on your time frame. But other than that, toss the RC. Go back with it and get your money back.
Red & Rover (GA)
Member Since 2016
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Hi and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry your dear girl has other health issues to contend with.
I agree there are better insulins for her but as you are stuck with the caninsulin for now...here is a link to how to use it. Make sure you are feeding her 30 minutes before the shot to ensure she has food aboard for when the insulin hits.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introduction-to-cannisulin-vetsulin-n-nph.231602/
At the moment your kitty is probably starving because diabetic cats who are not regulated can’t absorb all the nutrients in the food, so she is always hungry. Are you feeding her during the cycles as well as before the shot?
I would let her eat as much as she wants at this moment. The reason she is raiding the other cats food is because she is still hungry, bless her.
I would recommend you think about home testing the blood glucose. You will then know where you are with the dose and if it is working to help bring the BGs down and help with the hunger. Otherwise it is a guessing game.if she is food motivated, you shouldn’t have much trouble testing her.
It is always worthwhile to home test, irrespective if she is stealing other cats food or not. She is not the first one to do that by a long shot!! My girl did it at every opportunity! Once you are testing, you will be able to see if you are giving enough insulin to bring down the BGs or if you are giving too much. Then you adjust it and then you should start seeing a decrease in the ravenous appetite. I know it is very hard for you at the moment, but believe me it is better to have a kitty who is very hungry than one that won’t eat.!
I would look at ordinary low carb cat food from the stores. I don’t live in the UK but @Elizabeth and Bertie wrote this super article for UK users which may help you,
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/
Lastly do you have a Hypo kit set up in case of low numbers? if you are home testing you can intervene with food before the BG gets too low and so avoid a hypo...another strong reason to home test.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
We do understand how hard it is for you and will give you all the support and help you need. Keep posting and keep up in the loop
I agree there are better insulins for her but as you are stuck with the caninsulin for now...here is a link to how to use it. Make sure you are feeding her 30 minutes before the shot to ensure she has food aboard for when the insulin hits.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/introduction-to-cannisulin-vetsulin-n-nph.231602/
At the moment your kitty is probably starving because diabetic cats who are not regulated can’t absorb all the nutrients in the food, so she is always hungry. Are you feeding her during the cycles as well as before the shot?
I would let her eat as much as she wants at this moment. The reason she is raiding the other cats food is because she is still hungry, bless her.
I would recommend you think about home testing the blood glucose. You will then know where you are with the dose and if it is working to help bring the BGs down and help with the hunger. Otherwise it is a guessing game.if she is food motivated, you shouldn’t have much trouble testing her.
It is always worthwhile to home test, irrespective if she is stealing other cats food or not. She is not the first one to do that by a long shot!! My girl did it at every opportunity! Once you are testing, you will be able to see if you are giving enough insulin to bring down the BGs or if you are giving too much. Then you adjust it and then you should start seeing a decrease in the ravenous appetite. I know it is very hard for you at the moment, but believe me it is better to have a kitty who is very hungry than one that won’t eat.!
I would look at ordinary low carb cat food from the stores. I don’t live in the UK but @Elizabeth and Bertie wrote this super article for UK users which may help you,
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-vit-b12-and-other-need-to-know-stuff.137376/
Lastly do you have a Hypo kit set up in case of low numbers? if you are home testing you can intervene with food before the BG gets too low and so avoid a hypo...another strong reason to home test.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
We do understand how hard it is for you and will give you all the support and help you need. Keep posting and keep up in the loop
SashaV
Member Since 2020
My advice here would be, use this forum as your resource and forget what the vet's have told you. They know very little about diabetes, they rarely see it, and they know nothing about diet.
These knowledgeable people have been dealing with this disease in decades, they make no money on you and their only interest is to support you and your cat to the best possible life.
My vet went out sick a few months after my cats diagnosis. The last time I talked to her, she advised me to give 1.2ml of insulin, in a regular syringe. Turned out my cat got a overdose the first time on the new insulin.
It was actually Bron who was there for me, made sure I got the right syringes and steered me through our first low numbers.
Now my vet is back, before she left she told me not to discuss Mauer's disease with anyone else. So I was on my own for 9 months, only with the help of these people.
Since my vet got back, I've had a talk with her. Told her how Mauer is doing, what I've been doing. She told me to reach out when I needed a prescription otherwise I had her full support to run my own show.
You can look at my spreadsheet and see how things have worked, specially since February. I trust these people a heck of a lot more in regards of Mauer's diabetes, than I ever will a vet.
You're extra challenged since your kitty has several diagnosis and is a kibble stealer
But I'm sure there's a solution to that too. The awesome thing about this place is, you're never alone. There's almost always someone here to help, no matter the time.
Just my thoughts
These knowledgeable people have been dealing with this disease in decades, they make no money on you and their only interest is to support you and your cat to the best possible life.
My vet went out sick a few months after my cats diagnosis. The last time I talked to her, she advised me to give 1.2ml of insulin, in a regular syringe. Turned out my cat got a overdose the first time on the new insulin.
It was actually Bron who was there for me, made sure I got the right syringes and steered me through our first low numbers.
Now my vet is back, before she left she told me not to discuss Mauer's disease with anyone else. So I was on my own for 9 months, only with the help of these people.
Since my vet got back, I've had a talk with her. Told her how Mauer is doing, what I've been doing. She told me to reach out when I needed a prescription otherwise I had her full support to run my own show.
You can look at my spreadsheet and see how things have worked, specially since February. I trust these people a heck of a lot more in regards of Mauer's diabetes, than I ever will a vet.
You're extra challenged since your kitty has several diagnosis and is a kibble stealer
But I'm sure there's a solution to that too. The awesome thing about this place is, you're never alone. There's almost always someone here to help, no matter the time.
Just my thoughts
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Did I tel you my Sheba used to raid the baggage bin in the kitchen and would steal food left on the bench?
She once stole a cupcake topped with chocolate icing from the table and made herself quite ill (chocolate is poisonous to cats).
And of course if she could finish off Maxi’s food she would.
I found feeding her often and getting her BGs under control stopped a lot of the stealing behaviour.
I feel your pain and frustration! But you will get there!
She once stole a cupcake topped with chocolate icing from the table and made herself quite ill (chocolate is poisonous to cats).
And of course if she could finish off Maxi’s food she would.
I found feeding her often and getting her BGs under control stopped a lot of the stealing behaviour.
I feel your pain and frustration! But you will get there!
Teetee (UK)
Member Since 2019
Hi @RSS
I'm in the UK and my cat Duke was diagnosed at the end of last year and put on Prozinc insulin, you really need to speak with your vet about changing from Caninsulin as that was designed for dogs and not very long lasting. Prozinc insulin was designed with cats in mind and has a longer lasting effect.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
Back to your post about your cat being starving all the time and as @Bron and Sheba (GA) explained your cat is starving as she cannot absorb the food she is eating but this will get better as you get her numbers down and she starts absorbing her food, in Duke this only took a few weeks, maybe less. As you can see from his spreadsheet he came down to reasonable numbers within three weeks, but every cat is different.
What is happening is when your cat stops producing insulin the molecules inside her body that absorb the food in her are locked solid and won't allow food/nutrients inside them without insulin, as soon as you start giving her insulin it acts like a key and unlocks the molecules allowing food/nutrients to be absorbed and therefore reducing her hunger and stop her losing any weight.
Duke was so hungry that he would rummage through bins in the kitchen, jump onto the table as we were eating trying to steal food even though he had just been fed, he would scream constantly for food and would get quite frantic at times, but now he's fine food wise, just cries as normal at food times.
We have two cats and we just feed them at the same time as we don't have a feeder, one cat has his food in the kitchen and Duke has his food in the dining room and it's worked just great for us.
As for the food your vet recommended just say that she will not eat it and that's that. The food list that @Elizabeth and Bertie created has been a life saver for us.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml#
What you need to do is do home blood glucose testing and set up a spreadsheet and log it all, this will help you see her numbers come down and also to see if her numbers are going too low to avoid any hypo's.
I couldn't envisage treating Duke now without my spreadsheet, plus if you have any dosing problems etc members on here would need to see a spreadsheet if they are to give any urgent help.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/spreadsheets-tech-support-testing-area.6/
There is always someone about to help if you are struggling to set it up but it's really easy to do.
As for your vet but i'm sorry but i really don't their attitude, what a thing to say to their client
I have been told in no uncertain terms that if ‘i’ don't stop her eating the other cat food and if ‘i’ have wrong technique in injecting insulin then i will have to PTS. Not very compassionate from a vet.
Help is always here and to be honest i would never have managed Duke without the help of the members on here.
I'm in the UK and my cat Duke was diagnosed at the end of last year and put on Prozinc insulin, you really need to speak with your vet about changing from Caninsulin as that was designed for dogs and not very long lasting. Prozinc insulin was designed with cats in mind and has a longer lasting effect.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/
Back to your post about your cat being starving all the time and as @Bron and Sheba (GA) explained your cat is starving as she cannot absorb the food she is eating but this will get better as you get her numbers down and she starts absorbing her food, in Duke this only took a few weeks, maybe less. As you can see from his spreadsheet he came down to reasonable numbers within three weeks, but every cat is different.
What is happening is when your cat stops producing insulin the molecules inside her body that absorb the food in her are locked solid and won't allow food/nutrients inside them without insulin, as soon as you start giving her insulin it acts like a key and unlocks the molecules allowing food/nutrients to be absorbed and therefore reducing her hunger and stop her losing any weight.
Duke was so hungry that he would rummage through bins in the kitchen, jump onto the table as we were eating trying to steal food even though he had just been fed, he would scream constantly for food and would get quite frantic at times, but now he's fine food wise, just cries as normal at food times.
We have two cats and we just feed them at the same time as we don't have a feeder, one cat has his food in the kitchen and Duke has his food in the dining room and it's worked just great for us.
As for the food your vet recommended just say that she will not eat it and that's that. The food list that @Elizabeth and Bertie created has been a life saver for us.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml#
What you need to do is do home blood glucose testing and set up a spreadsheet and log it all, this will help you see her numbers come down and also to see if her numbers are going too low to avoid any hypo's.
I couldn't envisage treating Duke now without my spreadsheet, plus if you have any dosing problems etc members on here would need to see a spreadsheet if they are to give any urgent help.
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/spreadsheets-tech-support-testing-area.6/
There is always someone about to help if you are struggling to set it up but it's really easy to do.
As for your vet but i'm sorry but i really don't their attitude, what a thing to say to their client
I have been told in no uncertain terms that if ‘i’ don't stop her eating the other cat food and if ‘i’ have wrong technique in injecting insulin then i will have to PTS. Not very compassionate from a vet.
Help is always here and to be honest i would never have managed Duke without the help of the members on here.
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Pabs&Ro
Member Since 2020
I am in the uk too. I have two cats one of which is not diabetic. I have the opposite situation to you but one is greedy (non-diabetic) and one is not (diabetic). I have a sureflap feeder. The non-diabetic cat will clear her bowl every time in one go and my diabetic cat is truly fussy and grazes - Pabay. So Pabay can open his feeder with his micro-chip and get food when he wants and my greedy little missy Rona sticks to her diet! They are not cheap but I could not have managed without one.
Re: vets. Some can be quite forceful in making a decision quickly and expecting you to follow it. I have a specialist vet as well and we work together. Managing diabetes is a team effort. Don't forget: vets advice and you decide.
PS grazing is not always recommended but I have to do it with Pabay because it keeps his pancreatitis at bay and stops too much vomiting.
Re: vets. Some can be quite forceful in making a decision quickly and expecting you to follow it. I have a specialist vet as well and we work together. Managing diabetes is a team effort. Don't forget: vets advice and you decide.
PS grazing is not always recommended but I have to do it with Pabay because it keeps his pancreatitis at bay and stops too much vomiting.
Dyana
Member Since 2009
Hi. I am not in the UK, I think maybe you meant to tag @Diana&Tom ?
But, I have been on this forum for a long long time, since 2008. My kitty was diabetic for 9 years. I remember when he was first diagnosed, him stealing a peanut butter sandwich from my plate.
In the beginning of my experience with feline diabetes, I was desperately searching for a vet that I felt knew more about feline diabetes than the rest, and never did find one.
My kitty eventually got ketones and survived DKA (It is very important to test for ketones). He was in a hospital far away, and that's when I found this forum. Everyone here helped to answer my questions every day and any time of day, and were here to support me, and teach me to home test my cat's blood glucose, and how to slowly adjust the insulin dose. My kitty lived a long and happy life because of the FDMB.
When vets are in vet school, they have to learn about thousands of conditions and procedures, in lots of different species, and most probably only get a short course on diabetes, and once they become vets if they don't go to seminars or get further studies on the condition, that's all they get and know.
We are not vets, but we "live" feline diabetes, day and night, 365 days a year, and even after our cats have passed, we come back here to "pay it forward" to help other cats, because we love this forum and all it does to help people with their diabetic cats.
I wish you the Best Of Luck with your kitty, and I hope you will keep posting and letting us know how it's going, and asking questions.
Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Yes I’m in the UK. I’m not here much at the moment due to personal reasons but I’m glad to see other UKers posting as well as members from outside the UK - I know that only the very best advice will be offered from everyone on this forum.
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