24 July Girlie AMPS 706; PMPS 331; 200 @+6

[Girlie's mom]

Condo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...7-6-275-8-94-10-115-pmps-157-pm-2-439.181099/

Girlie and I have been having an interesting night here in Australia and she's started dropping again, so I'm not sure what to do because she drops quickly which is a bit scary for me. Yikes!
AMPS 7.6 (39.2) (no insulin the night before as too low)
+4=662 (36.8); +6=592 (32.9); +8=455 (25.3) (drop of 137 (7.6))

PMPS 331 (18.4) (drop of 124 (6.9))
+2 = 187 (10.6) (down 144 (7.8));
+3=119 (6.6) (down 68 (4))
I fed her (not that keen on cat food so gave her Liverwurst so she'd eat something with a dab of honey); then gave her 5 ml glucose syrup at +3:30
+3:45 BG 181 (10.1) (up 62 (3.5))
+5=256 (14.2) (up 75 (4.1))
+6 = 196 (11.1) (down 60 (3.1))

I'm a little concerned that she's dropped again 60 (3.1) points in an hour, and I'm not sure whether I should try to feed her (I doubt she'd be interested) or give her more glucose or just wait this out...

Also, I'm not sure about giving her insulin in the morning in a few hours or if I should reduce the dose. I know she hasn't typically dropped to the hypo level, but I am concerned that she drops so quickly.
@Wendy&Neko what do you think?

Not sure whether the following is noteworthy, but just fyi:

• She really wasn't very hungry today
• Her asthma cough is back. She's been off her asthma meds (Flixotide with Aerokat inhaler) since 20 June with all of her other issues. A wet asthma cough started on 20 July, and I started the Flixotide again. The cough is less wet, but she's still having a number of mild asthma attacks every day.
• No ketones in her urine but she's still drinking a lot of water every day

Not sure what to think of this or how to read what's been going on with her BG and insulin, etc. This is all new and a bit confusing for me. Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

(Sorry about the Australian time differences: confusing, I know. It's now 12:32 am on 25 July in Oz; 10:32 am est in the U.S.)

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

(Sorry about the Australian time differences: confusing, I know. It's now 12:32 am on 25 July in Oz; 10:32 am est in the U.S.)

no worries, people from all over on the site, so it's all good.

It does look like Girlie likes to bounce and when she comes down from the bounce she really goes low, which a lot of cats do. I would have reduced only by .25, as .5 is a big reduction. remember it can take up to 6 cycle for kitties to come down from a bounce which is normal.

Do you leave food out for her when you go to bed? that may help control the bouncing? You mentioned in your signature she doesn't eat enough you may want to try adding something she likes to the food. Here is a link with suggestions http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/suggestions-on-how-to-stimulate-kittys-appetite.130770/

 

[Girlie's mom]

no worries, people from all over on the site, so it's all good.

It does look like Girlie likes to bounce and when she comes down from the bounce she really goes low, which a lot of cats do. I would have reduced only by .25, as .5 is a big reduction. remember it can take up to 6 cycle for kitties to come down from a bounce which is normal.

Do you leave food out for her when you go to bed? that may help control the bouncing? You mentioned in your signature she doesn't eat enough you may want to try adding something she likes to the food. Here is a link with suggestions http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/suggestions-on-how-to-stimulate-kittys-appetite.130770/

Thanks so much -
I need to get a better magnifying glass so I can see how to do 1.25 units. I've been practising with a syringe, but I have no idea how to actually hit that mark: I inevitably end up going over or under. Is there a secret to being able to move slowly enough to hit the right spot? I'm finding that challenging, especially because I can't really see where exactly I am as far as the lines go without a magnifying glass, and the one I have isn't hands free (on my to-buy list).

I forgot to take her food away last night after she ate a good amount; I'm wondering if that might be why she wasn't so hungry this morning. I hesitate to leave food out all night just because she might not eat as much in the morning when she needs to before her shot. This morning she only ate 10 g (0.3 oz) before her shot.

Her appetite has been an ongoing issue. She's on Mirtazapine, but she's not ravenous by any means. She's always been lean, and she's always been a grazer - and a picky one at that. I'll definitely get some of the things on the list; a lot of them, though, she won't touch. Silly Girlie!

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

You may want to give her small meals through out the day. Since it looks like she maybe bouncing a lot, when you see she is heading for a really low number for her, you may want to feed her LC to try and avoid the bounce. Once she bounces less her pre-shot numbers in the morning should level off a bit. I think there is an sticky on feeding a bounce. I will look for it

Does the syringe you use have half unit markings on them or just full unit? I had the same issue with the .25, I had a hard time finding syringes with half units on them, so was guessing most times. I finally found some, and Marvin is at a drop, so not helping need to find list of the emotes would have used the brick wall one

 

[Girlie's mom]

Those are good suggestions, Nat - thank you!
Girlie seems to do this herself, eating every two hours or so. I'm still at home because I'm recovering from surgery, so I'm able to tempt her with fresh food when she goes looking for it. She eats a little bit, goes away, then comes back. She'll even suddenly pop up from a sound sleep and head for the food bowl: I assume because her body is telling her to eat.

I ordered the 1/2 unit syringes from the UK, and that helps a lot. Still, there isn't much space between the lines, and to get just a smidgen above or below it is proving really challenging for me: no matter how slowly I push or twist, I'll either go past where I should be or not far enough. I must not have great motor skills! What's your secret for getting the plunger of the syringe to stop where you want it to?

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

What's your secret for getting the plunger of the syringe to stop where you want it to?

I don't have a secret, I have the same issues. Marvin was a bit of a different case so I was lucky that I didn't have a lot of .25 doses. I know people here recommend the twist. I found it tough too as most times the syringes I used seemed to stick and I wasn't always at the correct mark. I did my best to be consistent, however also gave myself a break if not perfect. I was also hoping to find glasses that magnified at the same time (if they exist), but keep forgetting when shopping

 

[Girlie's mom]

I don't have a secret, I have the same issues. Marvin was a bit of a different case so I was lucky that I didn't have a lot of .25 doses. I know people here recommend the twist. I found it tough too as most times the syringes I used seemed to stick and I wasn't always at the correct mark. I did my best to be consistent, however also gave myself a break if not perfect. I was also hoping to find glasses that magnified at the same time (if they exist), but keep forgetting when shopping

I've been thinking of getting a magnifying eyepiece like the one jewellers use - surely I'd be able to see everything really clearly that way and also be able to fiddle with the syringe with both hands!

It's tough, isn't it? As you said, from 1.5 to 1 is a bit of a jump, but if I'm trying to hit 1.25 and get either too close to 1 or too close to 1.5, then won't that be problematic as well? The drama of getting the dose right!

I'm happy to get calipers to be really accurate, but that still leaves the problem of gliding (or twisting) the syringe to the right spot...sigh...

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

Yes, it's been a tough and emotional journey. All we can do is the best we can. As long as we see progress and learn how to address all these unpredictable and predictable BGs, and remember ECID... hmmm cats are complicated creatures.... One day at a time. I think what took me the longest and confused me the most is understanding onset, bounces, nadir specific to my cat. Others seemed to see the patterns before I did. Which is why I love this place. Marvin probably owes his life to this place, as at one point a specialist had just about convinced me to let him go. He is doing so well now. Both he and I got the support we needed from the great folks here. The only suggestion I can make regarding the dose, if you do get a caliper, even if not perfect as long as consistent you should benefit from the dose.

 

[Gill & George]

Hello and welcome,
I haven't visited before, but have been reading through the previous condos.
Looks like Girlie stayed flat after that initial drop at +6.
I think that since you went to 1.00 u and as you are seeing some nicer numbers just after two cycles on the reduced 1u dose, and in light of her recent hypo, I would stick with the 1u dose for now, that way you gain consistency and after a few cycles when the depot fills/stabilizes we can see what this dose is really doing for her. (Unless she is too low at PS,). She may well come up by her amps, if she is below 200 post up for advice hopefully someone with experience can guide you.

On the food front, it's OK to have her graze, but it is important that you take up the food two hours before you do your T/F/S , we do this so that we know that the PS number is not food influenced, I'd suggest using an autofeeder and have it set to turn to an empty compartment two hours before T/F/S.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I agree with Gill, stick with 1.0 units for now. She had a really nice cycle last night. Without those high numbers she probably didn't feel the need to feed as much.

There are also crafting headlight/magnifying combos that might be useful for drawing your dose. At least 1.0 is on the line.

One last thing, most people here use the US form of blood sugar measurements. The conversions should be on the US tab of your spreadsheet. As it turns out, the Canadian and British/Spanish contingent showed up today and we speak your language. But the majority here are from the US. You will get more help using the US numbers.

 

[Girlie's mom]

I agree with Gill, stick with 1.0 units for now. She had a really nice cycle last night. Without those high numbers she probably didn't feel the need to feed as much.

There are also crafting headlight/magnifying combos that might be useful for drawing your dose. At least 1.0 is on the line.

One last thing, most people here use the US form of blood sugar measurements. The conversions should be on the US tab of your spreadsheet. As it turns out, the Canadian and British/Spanish contingent showed up today and we speak your language. But the majority here are from the US. You will get more help using the US numbers.

Her amps is 203 (11.3), so on the edge: should I give her the 1 U, do you think?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

If you can monitor today, I would give the 1.0 unit. Cycles are usually much flatter when they start lower.

 

[Girlie's mom]

I agree with Gill, stick with 1.0 units for now. She had a really nice cycle last night. Without those high numbers she probably didn't feel the need to feed as much.

There are also crafting headlight/magnifying combos that might be useful for drawing your dose. At least 1.0 is on the line.

One last thing, most people here use the US form of blood sugar measurements. The conversions should be on the US tab of your spreadsheet. As it turns out, the Canadian and British/Spanish contingent showed up today and we speak your language. But the majority here are from the US. You will get more help using the US numbers.

Sorry, Wendy: very late in Oz when I wrote the actual opening post - I wasn't thinking and just used my World numbers. I'll go edit that now.
Should I put the US sheet as the first tab, do you think? I have the World tab first as those are the numbers I use from my AlphaTrak2, but I'm happy to make it easier for the majority.

I think one of the reasons she had a nice cycle last night is that I gave her 5 mls of glucose syrup and HC food at +3:30 as she was starting to dive quickly (68 points in one hour: from 187 to 119). Also, it was clear that she was still not terribly interested in food.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Should I put the US sheet as the first tab, do you think? I

Up to you. Not everyone looks at the spreadsheet and you probablly use it more than anyone else. It's not that hard to tab over.

 

[Girlie's mom]

If you can monitor today, I would give the 1.0 unit. Cycles are usually much flatter when they start lower.

Oh dear - I panicked a little bit, Wendy, as she wasn't terribly interested in her AMPS breakfast (only ate 0.35 oz/10g), so I only gave her 0.5 U. I looked at FAQ 4 and it said "Above 200 (11.1 mmol/L) but below the cat's normal pre-shot value, a reduced dose might be wise.", so I went for the (cowardly?) safe option... I hope I haven't messed things up again! I so want to be consistent and brave and do the right thing with her...

I've never seen a pre-shot in yellow - the majority have all been black - and high black - with only a few red and one at 302. Although these new blue and yellow (and even green) numbers are looking good, what sparks my anxiety (besides complete lack of sleep in 24 hours) is that
a) they're new and unfamiliar;
b) she seems to dive so quickly lately;
c) the Mirtazapine isn't working its magic and she's back to being super picky with food;
d) we had one hypo and that gave me enough new gray hairs for the year!

I look forward to becoming more confident and understanding things better so I know how to respond more confidently in the moment. It seems like every day something new pops up that makes that day's little roller coaster ride pretty entertaining!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

No worries! Think 0f this an opportunity to gather data on what happens when you shoot a reduced dose. The thing about FD - every cycle is a do-over.

 

[Girlie's mom]

No worries! Think 0f this an opportunity to gather data on what happens when you shoot a reduced dose. The thing about FD - every cycle is a do-over.

Thanks for the hug!!

I wonder - could the frequent Asthma cough she's had since 20 July be affecting her appetite and other things? I've been giving her the Flixotide (Fluctisoline (sp?) for that 2x/day since 20 July, and at least the cough is drier and less gurgly, but it's pretty frequent throughout the day still, and it certainly looks unpleasant.

I'm hoping that she'll drink less water today as well. She's been drinking way too much for a while now. I measured 15 oz (444 ml) yesterday, but thought that that couldn't be right - my initial number must have been wrong, although the day before she drank 11 oz (330 ml). Girlie is too entertaining by far...

I'll monitor her closely today again (her poor little ears, even with Neosporin!) and see how she goes.

Would you only give glucose if she's way low in numbers (e.g. green), or should I consider giving that to her again if she has another quick dive like she did last night (especially as she's not being the food hound I'd hoped Mirtazapine would turn her into)? I thought I'd head that one off at the pass so I could act confidently in the moment...

I so appreciate your patience with me - I know I'm probably over-reacting or being too much of a scaredy cat; I know the rest of you are confident with much lower numbers than I've ever had!

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

You should have seen me the first few weeks I posted on here, I was emotional, overwhelmed and in tears. Now I figure as long as I learn something each day, and make the appropriate adjustment for my cat (each cat is different), then Marvin will benefit. Trying to understand everything all at once just wasn't possible in my state of mind. I am still learning and definitely not purrfect...

 

[Girlie's mom]

You should have seen me the first few weeks I posted on here, I was emotional, overwhelmed and in tears. Now I figure as long as I learn something each day, and make the appropriate adjustment for my cat (each cat is different), then Marvin will benefit. Trying to understand everything all at once just wasn't possible in my state of mind. I am still learning and definitely not purrfect...

Thanks so much for telling me that, Nat - I've been on such a roller coaster of flat out fear and exhaustion. My poor brother got the tears one day: that's his job!
A good reminder - that I can't learn everything all at once and that none of us are purrfect. And that's what the FDMB is for: those who know more can help those of us who don't.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Would you only give glucose if she's way low in numbers (e.g. green), or should I consider giving that to her again if she has another quick dive like she did last night (especially as she's not being the food hound I'd hoped Mirtazapine would turn her into)? I thought I'd head that one off at the pass so I could act confidently in the moment...

Since you are using the AT, the "take action" number with high carbs is 68. Higher greens are safe. If she does see upper greens, give her a couple of tsp of her regular low carb food (unless she is diving down fast), as it can help her hang our or "surf" green numbers which are healing for her pancreas. If she is diving fast, higher carbs can slow her down. You did a good job stopping the drop last time. As for glucose, I only used either high carb cat food, 15-20% carbs, or corn syrup if she dropped below 40. But that's what worked for my cat. Take good notes on how much, when, and what carbs you give and you will learn what works for Girlie.

Is Girlie nauseated? It is better to give an anti nausea drug first, such as ondansetron or Cerenia, then try an appetite stimulant, you wouldn't want to feel nauseous and hungry. Often an anti nausea drug will get them eating without resorting to Mirtz.

 

[Girlie's mom]

Since you are using the AT, the "take action" number with high carbs is 68. Higher greens are safe. If she does see upper greens, give her a couple of tsp of her regular low carb food (unless she is diving down fast), as it can help her hang our or "surf" green numbers which are healing for her pancreas. If she is diving fast, higher carbs can slow her down. You did a good job stopping the drop last time. As for glucose, I only used either high carb cat food, 15-20% carbs, or corn syrup if she dropped below 40. But that's what worked for my cat. Take good notes on how much, when, and what carbs you give and you will learn what works for Girlie.

Is Girlie nauseated? It is better to give an anti nausea drug first, such as ondansetron or Cerenia, then try an appetite stimulant, you wouldn't want to feel nauseous and hungry. Often an anti nausea drug will get them eating without resorting to Mirtz.

She's diving again - from 239 @ +2 to 128 @ +4 (down 111 pts), and I was about to head to the store to get some hc wet food...sigh. I have HC dry that she'll eat, but it's very HC (39.5%) or the m/d dry (18%); should I try to give her that to stop this dive (even though she's in the blue range) or try the glucose like I did last time?

She's not nauseated as far as I can tell: no vomiting or efforts to vomit. But I'll ask my vet about the anti-nausea drugs here in Oz to see if that might work to help get her eating some more.

I do need to get to the store; would it be ok to pop out for an hour or two, or do I need to stay close? I'm not sure how quickly the dry will stop the dive or if this dive is an urgent dive. How do I know if a dive is urgent, I wonder?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Another sign of nausea is going up to the food, then turning away. Or smacking lips.

Do you have honey or syrup? You could add a tiny drop to her regular food to see if she will eat that instead of the dry. I believe you have some of the Weruva Cats in the Kitchen pouches in Oz. Some of them are good medium carb choices or at the lower end of high carb.

 

[Girlie's mom]

I have honey - I tried that last night before I gave her the glucose syrup (50% dextrose). She did NOT like the honey! She was okay with the glucose, though: didn't like it, but she's very used to taking liquid meds.

I don't understand the principle behind diving or why she's doing it - and apologies if someone has explained this and my too-tired brain can't remember! I still haven't slept yet, so I'm not very quick at the moment...

She was so high for so long, and now she's swimming in blues and yellows (which I assume is good, except she keeps heading for the greens...). Is her body dumping insulin in (which is making her drop suddenly) because I only gave her 0.5 U this morning? Or is she doing this for another reason?

How big a drop is considered a dive that you need to stay close for until it starts to rise again? (Again, apologies if that's elsewhere here: I've got to go through and cut and paste the things that I need to refer to repeatedly.)

Re: nausea: she doesn't smack her lips, and going up to the food and then turning away has been a lifelong thing she does; picky as, Girlie is. Oh boy!

 

[Girlie's mom]

Okay, her +5 = 103 (5.7): I guess it's glucose time.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Okay, her +5 = 103 (5.7): I guess it's glucose time.

Because she is still dropping despite getting some food I would give her a little of the glucose and test in 15 to 20 mins.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi Darrah,
I agree with Wendy about the possible nausea and I think it would be worthwhile trying either the cerenia or the ondansstron (zofran). I mentioned them in a previous post somewhere. The cerenia is an injection but there are tablets that are expensive. The zofran is only about $20 I think. If you look back on your posts I gave details about them and dose etc. I know you are very tired at the moment and are finding it hard to think straight, but it will get better

I used to give Sheba the Weruva pouches that Wendy mentioned and Sheba loved them.
I will send you the link so you can see the carb content. You can only buy them at Petbarn stores.
I used to get the Mack Jack and Sam 18.2Carbs and the pumpkin Lickin Chicken pouches 12.4 carbs. But they are all good.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

The depot from a previous higher dose can influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction. It's possible some of the 1.5 unit depot is at play today. This is why we like to be able to give the same dose over and over. With all the dose changes lately, it's hard to say what size Girlie's depot thinks it is, and would would be a good dose going forward.

5.7 (103) is not normally a time for higher carbs, unless you need to go out and cannot monitor. If you had been able to stay at home, some of her lower carb food would be good. Normally it's good to see numbers close to flat or rising before stopping monitoring. Once you know Girlie's cycles better, and how she responds to food, then you'll have more flexibility. Once I knew when Neko's low points (nadir) would roughly be, and knew how many points a certain about of carby food would lift her, I could go out for a bit if her numbers were dropping. Though I would feed the carbs, then wait 20-30 minutes to make sure they had stopped the drop, before ehading out.

 

[Girlie's mom]

Gave her 5 ml glucose (got from the vet last time I was there). It makes her do her "asthma" cough...not sure why.

Hi Darrah,
I agree with Wendy about the possible nausea and I think it would be worthwhile trying either the cerenia or the ondansstron (zofran). I mentioned them in a previous post somewhere. The cerenia is an injection but there are tablets that are expensive. The zofran is only about $20 I think. If you look back on your posts I gave details about them and dose etc. I know you are very tired at the moment and are finding it hard to think straight, but it will get better

I used to give Sheba the Weruva pouches that Wendy mentioned and Sheba loved them.
I will send you the link so you can see the carb content. You can only buy them at Petbarn stores.
I used to get the Mack Jack and Sam 18.2Carbs and the pumpkin Lickin Chicken pouches 12.4 carbs. But they are all good.

Thanks so much, Bron - and Wendy.

I gave her 5 ml of the glucose syrup the vet gave me to give her if I think she's heading down; she said to giver 2 - 5 ml; last night I gave her 5 and she came up. I'll test her when the alarm goes off.

What do you think of Ziwi Peak or Wellness or Holistic select? Would those be things to look at as well? There's a Petbarn near me that has them - if I can leave and uber it over there and back quickly! But she's just not a food cat; she's always been lean and - other than Doritos or Pizza (neither of which I gave her voluntarily) - or Liverwurst - she'll just walk away. My other cat thinks he's perpetually starving, but Girlie has a take it or leave it attitude towards food, and once she's done eating, she's done: that's it.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

What do you think of Ziwi Peak or Wellness or Holistic select? Would those be things to look at as well? There's a Petbarn near me that has them - if I can leave and uber it over there and back quickly! But she's just not a food cat; she's always been lean and - other than Doritos or Pizza (neither of which I gave her voluntarily) - or Liverwurst - she'll just walk away. My other cat thinks he's perpetually starving, but Girlie has a take it or leave it attitude towards food, and once she's done eating, she's done: that's it.

Here is link that should have the carb content of the foods you mentioned. Have a look at those and see if there are any you like. I have never used those brands but they are fine I think.
http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Ziwipeak are excellent quality, though a little spendy. Wellness has changed formula since I last gave it, though Neko used to like it. Holistic Select got four paws down. You'll just have to try them and see what she likes.

 

[Girlie's mom]

The depot from a previous higher dose can influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction. It's possible some of the 1.5 unit depot is at play today. This is why we like to be able to give the same dose over and over. With all the dose changes lately, it's hard to say what size Girlie's depot thinks it is, and would would be a good dose going forward.

5.7 (103) is not normally a time for higher carbs, unless you need to go out and cannot monitor. If you had been able to stay at home, some of her lower carb food would be good. Normally it's good to see numbers close to flat or rising before stopping monitoring. Once you know Girlie's cycles better, and how she responds to food, then you'll have more flexibility. Once I knew when Neko's low points (nadir) would roughly be, and knew how many points a certain about of carby food would lift her, I could go out for a bit if her numbers were dropping. Though I would feed the carbs, then wait 20-30 minutes to make sure they had stopped the drop, before ehading out.

Thanks, Wendy

Just tested her: up to 173 (9.6) at +5:30

I am staying at home, of course. I'm so sorry, but I don't understand about when a dive is a dive or not a dive that needs attention. At +2 = 239; +4=128 (down 111 in 2 hours); +5 = 103 (down 25 in an hour); and with glucose back up to 173 @ +5:30 (up 70).

Is a drop of 111 in 2 hours not a dive that needs attention? I'm not clear on whether it's the number that she goes down over the course of an hour or two or the colour (e.g. blue or green or light green) that should indicate that it's a deep dive that needs attention with HC food and/or something like glucose. Did I act too quickly?

You wrote in an earlier post: "Higher greens are safe. If she does see upper greens, give her a couple of tsp of her regular low carb food (unless she is diving down fast), as it can help her hang our or "surf" green numbers which are healing for her pancreas. If she is diving fast, higher carbs can slow her down. You did a good job stopping the drop last time. As for glucose, I only used either high carb cat food, 15-20% carbs, or corn syrup if she dropped below 40. But that's what worked for my cat. Take good notes on how much, when, and what carbs you give and you will learn what works for Girlie."
I guess I'm slow on following you or understanding what constitutes "diving down fast."

I understand that the AT take action number is 68 (3.8), but I'm wondering what to do if she again goes diving and I end up with that number when it's time to give her next shot. It seems like I'm getting into a cycle of diving/no shots/not the right dose which doesn't help her get the consistency she needs.

Is what Girlie doing typical and am I just overreacting? Sigh...

 

[Girlie's mom]

Here is link that should have the carb content of the foods you mentioned. Have a look at those and see if there are any you like. I have never used those brands but they are fine I think.
http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Great chart, but it's for American foods, not Australian, unfortunately. I wish I could rely on that list!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Great chart, but it's for American foods, not Australian, unfortunately. I wish I could rely on that list!

I think those foods are canned in the US and would probably be the same. No..the ziwipeak is NZ but I would think the numbers would be the same. The Weruva is the same worldwide.

 

[Girlie's mom]

Ziwipeak are excellent quality, though a little spendy. Wellness has changed formula since I last gave it, though Neko used to like it. Holistic Select got four paws down. You'll just have to try them and see what she likes.

Was the four paws down vote from Neko?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Yes, but she was getting very picky then. She had completely gone off raw (which she was on for years), and at that point I needed low carb, low phosphorus, and low salt food.

 

[Girlie's mom]

The depot from a previous higher dose can influence 4-6 cycles after a reduction. It's possible some of the 1.5 unit depot is at play today. This is why we like to be able to give the same dose over and over. With all the dose changes lately, it's hard to say what size Girlie's depot thinks it is, and would would be a good dose going forward.

5.7 (103) is not normally a time for higher carbs, unless you need to go out and cannot monitor. If you had been able to stay at home, some of her lower carb food would be good. Normally it's good to see numbers close to flat or rising before stopping monitoring. Once you know Girlie's cycles better, and how she responds to food, then you'll have more flexibility. Once I knew when Neko's low points (nadir) would roughly be, and knew how many points a certain about of carby food would lift her, I could go out for a bit if her numbers were dropping. Though I would feed the carbs, then wait 20-30 minutes to make sure they had stopped the drop, before ehading out.

Hi Wendy and @Bron and Sheba

She's now 328 (18.2) 45 minutes after the 5 ml glucose + very small amount of m/d dry and HC wet. So what lesson should I learn from this?

1. Not to panic
2. Give HC food first, then test, then give glucose?
3. Wait to give HC food and/or glucose until she's in the greens?
   
4. Only give glucose if she's taking a deep dive (but I still don't know what a deep dive is - whether it's related to colour (e.g. green) or the total number that she drops in an hour or two or something else)

I'm wondering about tonight: Should I give the 1 U even if she's going low again? And what would be too low to give the insulin - 68 or 78 or? I don't want her to end up in an endless cycle of no insulin/not enough insulin because I'm scared or not sure how to deal with her.

Sorry to have so many endless questions...

 

[Wendy&Neko]

First thing, high carb wet and glucose can wear off in a couple of hours, so she might come down a bit yet. High carb dry lasts longer, which is why we try to avoid dry food. Another thing you learned is what happens when you give a reduced dose. What typically happens on that cycle is that the depot from the previous dose influences the first part of the cycle where the reduced dose is given, then it peters out.

Next time what you do will depend if you are home to monitor. As far as how fast is a steep drop, it depends where in the cycle she is. Typical nadirs are somewhere mid cycle, so you shouldn't see sharp drops after that. ECID of course, Sharp drops are often at the beginning of the cycle, around or shortly after onset. A 20% drop might be considered steep, but in some cats it's typical. And as I said before, the lower the preshot, the flatter the cycle so you don't get as much of a steep drop. Then there are other factors that influence the numbers like bounces, breaking a bounce, scary noises/stress, being a cat.

I would give 1.0 units, if you can monitor. So far it's given you nice safe numbers and she hasn't earned a reduction on it. It would be ideal to give the same dose for at least 6 cycles to see what that dose can do when the depot is build. Providing of course, she doesn't earn a reduction.

One other thing for tomorrow - typically we start a new post every day and link to the previous day's post. After a while a post gets long to read and if people haven't been following, they may chose a shorter post to read.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I don't think you panicked, you just care about your kitty. And I was the one who said to go ahead and give some glucose. The main reason being that Girlie is not eating well/much at the moment and giving her some food did not stop the drop. I know how scarey it can be to have a diver in the family
Now you know she responds well to the glucose.......you should feel more comfortable with letting her drop lower into high green numbers. And maybe trying half the amount of glucose if needed.
If you have managed to buy some higher carb food today that Girlie will eat, that will make things easier for you.
Wendy has given you some good explanations in the above post.
Dont apologise for endless questions.........that is how we all learned about FD

 

[Girlie's mom]

First thing, high carb wet and glucose can wear off in a couple of hours, so she might come down a bit yet. High carb dry lasts longer, which is why we try to avoid dry food. Another thing you learned is what happens when you give a reduced dose. What typically happens on that cycle is that the depot from the previous dose influences the first part of the cycle where the reduced dose is given, then it peters out.

Next time what you do will depend if you are home to monitor. As far as how fast is a steep drop, it depends where in the cycle she is. Typical nadirs are somewhere mid cycle, so you shouldn't see sharp drops after that. ECID of course, Sharp drops are often at the beginning of the cycle, around or shortly after onset. A 20% drop might be considered steep, but in some cats it's typical. And as I said before, the lower the preshot, the flatter the cycle so you don't get as much of a steep drop. Then there are other factors that influence the numbers like bounces, breaking a bounce, scary noises/stress, being a cat.

I would give 1.0 units, if you can monitor. So far it's given you nice safe numbers and she hasn't earned a reduction on it. It would be ideal to give the same dose for at least 6 cycles to see what that dose can do when the depot is build. Providing of course, she doesn't earn a reduction.

One other thing for tomorrow - typically we start a new post every day and link to the previous day's post. After a while a post gets long to read and if people haven't been following, they may chose a shorter post to read.

Hi Wendy,
I put the Condo link to my first post (this was my second) at the top of the post: was I supposed to do it another way?
This was my new post for the day, but with the time difference (I'll have to check that now), perhaps it showed as the same day for those in North America? I'll check that. I'm up at 3 pm US est 5 am Oz, so that's when I'd start a new post.
This morning she was 194 (10.8) for her PMPS. In the FAQ, it says "Between 150 and 200 (8.3-11.1 mmol/L), you have three options: a.) give nothing; b.) give a token dose (10-25% of the usual dose); c.) feed as usual, test in a couple of hours, and make a decision based on that value." I want her to get 1 U am/pm so we can see what's going on, so I guess I should check in a half hour/hour and if she's gone up, give her 1 U: would that be best? Or should I just give her 1 U even with under 200?

She really seems to drop during the day, but then go up at night - or at least that's her latest reaction (since 16 July). The vet said to give her the usual shot (1.5 U) unless she's lower than 126 (7), but that makes me nervous in the am as she drops during the day...oh, what to do?

And on a practical side, even thought it's 3 pm US est, since this is a new day for me in Oz, should I start a new post?

 

[Gill & George]

And on a practical side, even thought it's 3 pm US est, since this is a new day for me in Oz, should I start a new post?

I can see that the international date line is messing with your noggin

When it's a new day for you, start the new daily post, it means you're a day ahead of our US friends, but that just means you get to wish us happy new year earlier

Start your new post with your amps.

 

[Girlie's mom]

I can see that the international date line is messing with your noggin

When it's a new day for you, start the new daily post, it means you're a day ahead of our US friends, but that just means you get to wish us happy new year earlier

Start your new post with your amps.

Thank you so much! There's a lot messing with my noggin, including my very entertaining kitty cat...

I will be sure to wish you all a Happy New Year earlier and let you know that all is well...

I'll make sure to start with my AMPS next time.