? 24/12: MITTENS - Novolin N, Small Ketones

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Never done sub-qs so not familiar with equipment ... BUT ... when I can't get the lid off a jar sometimes giving a slight bit of a tap on the side of the lid helps it come unstuck. I wonder whether a similar strategy might work with the needle housing? Would need to be very careful with taps because don't want to damage the connector on the fluid line. Thoughts?

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Mogs, the needle attaches with both pressure and then a twist so it could be stuck at either point. I think using heat on it might be the only option other than perhaps a pair of small pliers to get a good grip for the twist. I'm not sure a tap would do much in this case.
 
I happen to have a fluids rig here (got it last spring to keep in reserve for Amber's pancreatitis, but never had to tap into it, hence my lack of recent experience, arrggh). I don't think the part that is "stuck" would respond to a tap-- it's the needle at the very end, and it's small and plastic.

Dan and Heather: I don't know if the old needle still has its plastic "safety cover" on, but I've found with other similar setups that having that on when you are twisting makes a world of difference (and not just because you are less likely to stick yourself, it gives you a lot more torque somehow). If you don't have the old cover, I'd sacrifice one of the covers to your "fresh" needles to give this a try.
 
Ok, we finally got the needle off and got the fluids in her. On the bag the line was just above the 1 and we got it down to just above the 2, so 100mL or extremely close to it. We just got done about 5 minutes ago, that darn needle was super stubborn. So now it's time for her to have her potassium, so should we feed her soon?
 
Also right before we did the fluids she walked into the bathroom and used the liter box so we snuck in and got a sample. It's hard to tell sometimes but we both agreed it was somewhere between trace and small but we both thought it was slightly closer to matching the color for trace.
 
For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +8 post shot

Summary data
Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
+1.5 - 306
Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
+2.5 - 263
+4 - 228
Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
+6 - 284
SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
Doing AMPS BG now to be followed by food with Potassium dose.
 
For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +8 post shot

Summary data
Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
+1.5 - 306
Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
+2.5 - 263
+4 - 228
Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
+6 - 284
SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
Doing AMPS BG now to be followed by food with Potassium dose. Mittens finally peed and ketones are TRACE! YAHOO!
 
Ok feed her now with the potassium added to the food.

You guys rock! I am so impressed with not only your perseverance and love for Mittens but how quickly you are learning all these new procedures! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +8 post shot

Summary data
Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
+1.5 - 306
Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
+2.5 - 263
+4 - 228
Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
+6 - 284
SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
Mittens finally peed and ketones are TRACE! YAHOO!
AMPS BG - 298
Feeding now with Potassium dose added to food.
 
Dan&Heather said:
Also right before we did the fluids she walked into the bathroom and used the liter box so we snuck in and got a sample. It's hard to tell sometimes but we both agreed it was somewhere between trace and small but we both thought it was slightly closer to matching the color for trace.
Click to expand...

That's great-- going in the right direction, and the fluids are going to help flush out remaining ketones. Fantastic!
 
Good morning, Dan, Heather and Mittens.

Sending Christmas blessings to you all. Happy tears going on over here after reading news about your Christmas prezzie from DCIN!! :cat:

(I ♥ DCIN.) :)

Dan&Heather said:
Also right before we did the fluids she walked into the bathroom and used the liter box so we snuck in and got a sample. It's hard to tell sometimes but we both agreed it was somewhere between trace and small but we both thought it was slightly closer to matching the color for trace.
Click to expand...
Good stuff, Team Mittens! :)

:bighug:

I suggest putting some plastic wrap over the litter straight away so it will be ready to catch the next urine sample - just in case Mittens does a sneak attack on the litter box when your backs are turned. ;)


Mogs
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@Critter Mom @Nan & Amber could I ask one of you wonderful ladies to look at the carb content of the food Heather has available for Mittens. I didn't get to it between cat naps and not trusting my math skills tonight and now I really don't trust them. I am not sure if all flavours of FF are the same but I don't think they are so I asked Heather to let us know which flavours she has. She hasn't given that info yet but I know she's been hopping with everything else. Perhaps you can revisit this with her or Dan once we get the shot done. Can you ladies keep watch then? I am fading fast here and would like to have a quick nap before Menace needs my attention.
This is what Heather has told us so far. :)

Dan&Heather said:
We have been giving her Fancy Feast classic (do you need the specific flavors?) mostly with some BeachNut Classics baby food (chicken and broth & turkey and broth) from time to time. We also have a few cans of Fancy Feast gravy lovers that I was advised to have around but she hasn't had any of that.
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
... could I ask one of you wonderful ladies to look at the carb content of the food Heather has available for Mittens.
Click to expand...

@Nan & Amber - would you be able to run with this? I struggle with the US food carb calculations and I'm not au fait with the US food lists.

Can you ladies keep watch then? I am fading fast here and would like to have a quick nap before Menace needs my attention.
Click to expand...

Will be good to go here in about 15-20 mins. (Need to grab something quick to eat so I can keep going; had frell all grub yesterday.)

(((Linda))) - Great job overnight, girl! :bighug:


Mogs
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Heather/Dan, have you finished feeding Mittens yet? Sorry if I am rushing you! Just want to make sure we try to keep a workable schedule here and don't end up with pre-shots occurring in the middle of the night when there will be so few folks available the next few days! :bighug:
 
For anyone following, here is an updated summary as of +9 post shot

Summary data
Fed 7.5oz at 10:00pm EST
PMPS - 305 immediately following feeding
Insulin given 10:30pm EST 0.25u Novolin N
+1.5 - 306
Fed 7.5 oz. right after +1.5 reading taken
+2.5 - 263
+4 - 228
Fed another 7.5 oz. between +4/+5
No ketone check yet. May have peed only once today. More fluids to be given by syringe.
+6 - 284
SubQ fluids - 100ml. administered (Hallelujah and Good job Heather and Dan!:D
Mittens finally peed and ketones are TRACE! YAHOO!
AMPS BG - 298
Feeding now with Potassium dose added to food.
Insulin given at 7:45 am EST 0.25u Novolin N
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Critter Mom @Nan & Amber could I ask one of you wonderful ladies to look at the carb content of the food Heather has available for Mittens. I didn't get to it between cat naps and not trusting my math skills tonight and now I really don't trust them. I am not sure if all flavours of FF are the same but I don't think they are so I asked Heather to let us know which flavours she has. She hasn't given that info yet but I know she's been hopping with everything else. Perhaps you can revisit this with her or Dan once we get the shot done. Can you ladies keep watch then? I am fading fast here and would like to have a quick nap before Menace needs my attention.
This is what Heather has told us so far. :)
Click to expand...

OK, so the short answer on Fancy Feast is this:

1) All of the "Classic" pates should be low carb (≤5%, with not enough variation among them to worry about), but there have been recent questions raised about "fishy" flavors, so we're really only still confident about the non-fish (Tender Beef, Chicken, etc.). Fish flavors with an expiration date before September 2018 should also be OK.

2) All of the "Gravy Lovers" varieties are good high carb options (≥20%, with most of the carbs in the gravy). Again, the differences among flavors is fairly slight (range 20-22%), so I'm not sure it would make a lot of difference once all the other sources of variation come into play-- they should all work pretty equally as a quick hit of carbs.

Longer answer: we're not really sure what's going on with Fancy Feast these days, because there have been enough anecdotal reports of BG numbers rising on food that has never previously caused problems that we suspect a change in formula, or possibly just changes in ingredient sourcing -> some iffy batches -> cats feel lousy -> BG numbers rise. The company has been stonewalling us on all inquiries, so we're just left with anecdotes, no hard numbers. I think @Sharon14 has been coordinating gathering information for a new US based food list, so she might have updated information (dunno if she'll be logging on during the holidays, though).

Anecdotally, I can tell you that I've had no problem whatsoever with the "Tender Beef Feast" flavor (the only one Amber will eat a decent amount of :banghead:), BG numbers in remission have been beautiful. I haven't heard reports of any of the other chicken, beef, or turkey-based flavors causing problems, either, and, again, older batches of the fish flavors had no problems, either.

For the next couple of days, if I were Dan and Heather, I might try to mostly stick to just one or two flavors when doing the syringe feeding rather than absolutely all of the low-carb varieties. With Mittens still feeling lousy, you don't want her developing aversions to multiple foods-- when she's ready to eat, you want to have something available that she won't associate with feeling yucky.
 
Updated Schedule

Potassium is next due at 7pm EST tonight.
Not sure about frequency of SubQ fluids - @Critter Mom @Nan & Amber - can one of you check on this please and update this timeline
Insulin given at 7:45 EST so first post shot test will be due at 9:15am EST.
Insulin 8 hour schedule will now be 7:45 am EST, 3:45 pm EST and 23:45 pm EST. I'd like to see this schedule shifted back a bit if possible just because of the lateness of that 23:45pm shot time and lack of support overnight.

I am going to go crash. I'll check back in about 15 minutes for any final questions re: my report of our night.
 
@Nan & Amber Thanks so much for checking on the foods. Meya suggested a slightly higher carb food would be good for being able to get sufficient insulin into Mittens thus the question about the carb contents. Not sure how much Gravy lovers they have but perhaps you can check with them making sure they keep some aside in case they should need the gravy for a low drop in BG.
I feed FF to my furkids (Turkey and Giblet Feast) and have had no issues at all here. Not sure what is going on there!
 
@Nan & Amber -

Great job on the food side of things! :cool:

If Dan & Heather give you the nutrition info from the baby food would you be able to work out the carbs for that?

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Insulin 8 hour schedule will now be 7:45 am EST, 3:45 pm EST and 23:45 pm EST. I'd like to see this schedule shifted back a bit if possible just because of the lateness of that 23:45pm shot time and lack of support overnight.
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What about adjusting back 15 mins per cycle? Thoughts? (So little data at the moment - worried about larger adjustments till more info available.)

I'll take over the SITREP activities.

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Whew! That seemed like a hectic hour! I feel like we did well though. She got her shot of 0.25 at 7:45, just a few minutes ago. I feel alot better now that she has some fluids and more insulin in her
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
@Nan & Amber Thanks so much for checking on the foods. Meya suggested a slightly higher carb food would be good for being able to get sufficient insulin into Mittens thus the question about the carb contents. Not sure how much Gravy lovers they have but perhaps you can check with them making sure they keep some aside in case they should need the gravy for a low drop in BG.
I feed FF to my furkids (Turkey and Giblet Feast) and have had no issues at all here. Not sure what is going on there!
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I suggest keeping to what they have been feeding for this cycle at least till we see what the 2nd dose of 0.25IU Novolin is doing (per Meya's recommendation last night). We can review later. Agree it's critical to keep a supply of FF gravy lovers in reserve.

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Dan&Heather said:
I feel like we did well though. She got her shot of 0.25 at 7:45, just a few minutes ago.
Click to expand...
I think ye did absolutely brilliantly! :cool:

I feel alot better now that she has some fluids and more insulin in her
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And deservedly so. :bighug:

The food, fluids and insulin will all help with the ketones. Hoping the fluids and potassium will help the nausea side of things, too.

Sending some very, very gentle Christmas scritches for dear Mittens ... (((Mittens)))

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Dan&Heather said:
Ok, we finally got the needle off and got the fluids in her. On the bag the line was just above the 1 and we got it down to just above the 2, so 100mL or extremely close to it. We just got done about 5 minutes ago, that darn needle was super stubborn. So now it's time for her to have her potassium, so should we feed her soon?
Click to expand...
You and Dan are beyond champions for Mittens! I'm SO impressed with how well you've done and am wishing you as much luck as the universe will give ... :bighug:
 
I'm amazed at this team effort! I had a thought: would it be helpful to start a separate thread where all the updated schedules are posted apart from all the other back and forth? It would be much easier for other helpers to find. I'm around until about 3:30 PM EST and will check in. I'm still on a learning curve here but will do what I can.
 
MAJOR EDIT: PLEASE DISREGARD 3x/day, 300ml/day recommendation!!!!! This was based on a mistaken read of previous posts, and is likely a very bad idea.

Regarding fluids, I think the recommendation was 300ml/day, and separated from insulin/BG tests by at least 1-1.5hrs.

It seems reasonable to do the 100ml/session that you just did (adjusting based on what else is going on, how much she's drinking, etc.), 3x day, so on the same frequency as the shots but separated in time. Maybe around +6, depending on where her numbers are in that cycle? That would be at 1:45pm, 9:45pm, and (sigh) 5:45am. [edit: ah, but we're also trying to shift the shot times, so maybe 1:30, 9:15, 5?]

Caveat: I'm not experienced enough to offer this an informed opinion, I'm just throwing it out there. Thoughts?
 
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Nan & Amber said:
Regarding fluids, I think the recommendation was 300ml/day, and separated from insulin/BG tests by at least 1-1.5hrs.
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Any chance of a link to the post where you saw that, Nan? (If you click on the # number at the end of the post it'll open up a dialog box with the right link address. Copy to clipboard and paste link into a post on this thread, please.)

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Critter Mom said:
If Dan & Heather give you the nutrition info from the baby food would you be able to work out the carbs for that?
Click to expand...

This is what we have right now, have mostly been just feeding fancy feast for last day or so.

Beech Nut Classics
chicken and chicken broth, we got it because the only ingredients are chicken and chicken broth.

2.5 oz jar:
calories: 70
total fat 4g total carb 0g
trans fat 0g fiber lessthan 1 g
sodium 25 mg sugars 0g
potassium 90mg protein 7g

Beech Nut Classics, turkey and turkey broth 2.5 oz:
calories: 60
total fat 4g total carb 0g
trans fat 0g fibet 0g
sodium 40mg sugars 0g
potassium 90mg protein 6g

I accidentally bought one jar of Gerber chicken and chicken gravy, we didn't give it to her because we noticed it was gravy not broth and wasn't sure. Not sure if you need the information for that one but here it is anyway just in case:
2.5 oz jar
calories 100
total fat 6g total carb 2g
trans fat 0g dietary fiber 0g
sodium 40mg sugars 0g
potassium 90mg protein 7g
 
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