21Feb2020/Maxi/PMPS(168)+2(240)+3(263)+6(313)+10(318)AMPS(374)

bambinaki

bambinaki

Member Since 2010
Last thread: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...se-dose-tomorrow-morning.225872/#post-2529575

Hello-

Maxi has been at 2.5 units of insulin for 5 cycles. Tomorrow morning, after tonight's 6th cycle at 2.5 units, I'm planning (I was planning) to increase his insulin dose to 2.75.

Just now his glucose was 147, the lowest it's been since diagnosis. I read on this site that advice should be sought if the pre-shoot number is below 150.

Could someone please keep an eye on how tonight goes and let me know if I should shoot tonight (about 3 hours from now) and let me know if I should go ahead with the insulin dose increase tomorrow morning?

At what number should I give him food to bring his glucose up?

It looks like his nadir tends to be late in a cycle. Is there anything special I should do/know about this?

I will be able to be by Maxi's side (able to test) around the clock for the next 2 days (tonight, tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow).

Thank you.
 
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147 at +8 is fine. Just retest at +9 to see if he’s dropping further. He’s quite safe.
A Preshot number under 150 is different to a BG during the cycle of under 150.
We ask you to not shoot under 150 in the beginning until you get more data.
He is starting to respond well to the increase in dose. That’s good.

Unless he’s dropping really fast, or early in the cycle, there is no need to give food to bring him up higher. Just give your normal mid cycle snacks.
If he drops under 50, you would give some high carb food to bring him up. Just a teaspoon then test 20 mins later.
If he’s heading down into the lower green safe numbers, (between 50 and 80) and you feel nervous, I would post and ask for someone to just have a look to help guide you the first time. We are happy to help support you as you learn.

If he doesn’t drop into green numbers before tomorrow morning, then yes you can increase the dose to 2.75 U
Keep asking questions.
 
"Just give your normal mid cycle snacks."

Thank you, Bron.

I haven't been giving him mid-cycle snacks. There are lots of days (my work days) when I can't be home to give him snacks. So, to be consistent, I haven't been giving him snacks on the days when I'm home.

I do give him one little 'cookie' as a test/shot reward. I had been giving him Vital Essentials Vital Cat freeze dried duck (1 piece [size of a pea or 2 peas]) until yesterday (on advice of someone who thought the Vital Cat was too high in carbs) when I started giving him Pure Bites freeze dried chicken (1 piece [size of 3 peas]).

Should I be giving him mid-cycle snacks on the days when I'm home?
 
bambinaki said:
"Just give your normal mid cycle snacks."

Thank you, Bron.

I haven't been giving him mid-cycle snacks. There are lots of days (my work days) when I can't be home to give him snacks. So, to be consistent, I haven't been giving him snacks on the days when I'm home.

I do give him one little 'cookie' as a test/shot reward. I had been giving him Vital Essentials Vital Cat freeze dried duck (1 piece [size of a pea or 2 peas]) until yesterday (on advice of someone who thought the Vital Cat was too high in carbs) when I started giving him Pure Bites freeze dried chicken (1 piece [size of 3 peas]).

Should I be giving him mid-cycle snacks on the days when I'm home?
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Diabetic cats do better with several smaller meals during the cycles instead of just before preshot meals.
Are you able to buy an automatic feeder that will dispense the food when you want it to.
A lot of us have them and they are invaluable.
Smaller snacks delivered at say +2 and +4 or 5 give the cat some food at onset and when the insulin is most likely to be at its strongest level. This helps keep the cat safe and is better for the pancreas to have several smaller meals instead of just 2 meals a day.

It is best to feed the snacks with all the cycles and not just some as consistency is best and safest.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Diabetic cats do better with several smaller meals during the cycles instead of just before preshot meals.
Are you able to buy an automatic feeder that will dispense the food when you want it to.
A lot of us have them and they are invaluable.
Smaller snacks delivered at say +2 and +4 or 5 give the cat some food at onset and when the insulin is most likely to be at its highest level. This helps keep the cat safe and is better for the pancreas to have several smaller meals instead of just 2 meals a day.

It is best to feed the snacks with all the cycles and not just some as consistency is best and safest.
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Yes, but (as explained in detail in previous threads), it's not possible to give mid-cycle snacks to Maxi or to free feed him even with an automatic feeder unless I isolate him from his companion cats, which would make them all very unhappy and even stressed. Do you think it's worth isolating him in order to give him mid-cycle snacks?
 
bambinaki said:
Yes, but (as explained in detail in previous threads), it's not possible to give mid-cycle snacks to Maxi or to free feed him even with an automatic feeder unless I isolate him from his companion cats, which would make them all very unhappy and even stressed. Do you think it's worth isolating him in order to give him mid-cycle snacks?
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That is a tough one.
What time do you leave in the morning?
Are you able to give him a +2 snack before you leave for work?
The other option is to buy a chip autofeeder that only opens for the one cat. They are more expensive than normal aurofeeders
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
That is a tough one.
What time do you leave in the morning?
Are you able to give him a +2 snack before you leave for work?
The other option is to buy a chip autofeeder that only opens for the one cat. They are more expensive than normal aurofeeders
Click to expand...

My schedule is very irregular.

Maxi's brother Rudi would put his face in Maxi's bowl and eat alongside Maxi while Maxi's chip has the feeder open. I know this because this is what happens when they're fed in regular bowls unless I monitor them. They go back and forth to each other's bowls if not monitored.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Is Rudi the only other cat?
Maybe you could get them both an autofeeder to open at the same times
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There's a third cat.

I'm pretty sure Rudi and Maxi would go to each other's bowls and eat side by side with their faces in the same bowl. They find doing this irresistible. If I look away for a second, I find them doing it. Because Maxi takes a binder, and Rudi doesn't, they shouldn't eat each other's food.
 
bambinaki said:
+10: 138
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Looks like he is dropping lower this cycle than in any other cycle. See what the next cycle does. He may bounce from these lower numbers as he isn’t used to them any more.

If I remember correctly Maxi’s phosphorus levels were normal so I don’t think you need a phosphorus binder at this stage yet. What does the vet say?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Looks like he is dropping lower this cycle than in any other cycle. See what the next cycle does. He may bounce from these lower numbers as he isn’t used to them any more.

If I remember correctly Maxi’s phosphorus levels were normal so I don’t think you need a phosphorus binder at this stage yet. What does the vet say?
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Yes, his glucose dropped lower than it has since his diabetes diagnosis.

The vet prescribed the binder for him. She said in cats with kidney disease (or was it diabetes? I think it was kidney disease), we want to keep phosphorus below 4.5. His phosphorus in October was 5.2. In January, it was 5.3. Last week, it was 4.4. I asked if he should continue with the binder and she said yes. She thinks his phosphorus probably went down due to being on the binder for 2 1/2 weeks. Do you think he should not take binder?
 
Under 150 is not a no shoot number. On this forum,we suggest that the first time you get an under 150 preshot, you do not feed, and post for help. In most cases under 150 is shootable, especially if following TR.

Which phosphorus binder does the vet want you to use now?
 
Thank you, Wendy.

Maxi's PM pre-shot test is a few minutes from now. I hope you can stand by with Bron.

Maxi has been on Epakitin binder since diagnosis on January 27.
 
bambinaki said:
+12/PMPS is 168. Should I feed now and shoot 2.5 units?
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Yes. Feed and shoot.
Are you able to monitor this cycle?
It is the lowest preshot you have had (quite safe to shoot) so I would get a +2 to start with and then monitor from there as needed.
He may bounce after that string of blues which he is not used to. Time will tell.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes. Feed and shoot.
Are you able to monitor this cycle?
It is the lowest preshot you have had (quite safe to shoot) so I would get a +2 to start with and then monitor from there as needed.
He may bounce after that string of blues which he is not used to. Time will tell.
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OK, Bron. Yes, I'll test him all night tonight. Thank you!!
 
bambinaki said:
OK, Bron. Yes, I'll test him all night tonight. Thank you!!
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I’ll watch for updates on the SS. can you change your subject line to PMPS 168 then add the +2 etc as you do them please. That will alert us you have done them without us having to go into the thread all the time... we just have to look at the main page of the Lantus page. Then we can go into the thread as needed. Thx:)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I’ll watch for updates on the SS. can you change your subject line to PMPS 168 then add the +2 etc as you do them please. That will alert us you have done them without us having to go into the thread all the time... we just have to look at the main page of the Lantus page. Then we can go into the thread as needed. Thx:)
Click to expand...

Done
 
Good thing you shot the full dose. Bit of an anticlimax bounce though. :rolleyes: Same thing happened to me first times I shot blue, then greens. I got all stressed and nervous, then bounce. Ah well, got me over the fear of shooting lower.

On the upside, I see some gorgeous blue streaks happening. Nice bit of progress. :cool:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Good thing you shot the full dose. Bit of an anticlimax bounce though. :rolleyes: Same thing happened to me first times I shot blue, then greens. I got all stressed and nervous, then bounce. Ah well, got me over the fear of shooting lower.

On the upside, I see some gorgeous blue streaks happening. Nice bit of progress. :cool:
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Thank you, Wendy.

Do you think there's a chance I could get him into remission?
 
Anything is possible. The odds are good with TR and a diagnosis less than six months away. But it’s not something we can predict. ECID. Though we hope for the best. Focus first on regulation, it is a prerequisite to remission. There is also a lot to be said for a happy healthy well regulated cat.
 
bambinaki said:
Do you think there's a chance I could get him into remission?
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There is always a chance!! Never give up, never surrender!!

We've seen cats on insulin for years who eventually went OTJ. And if he never does reach the lofty goal of remission, he can still live a long and healthy life.

Cat's that are treated don't die from diabetes ….they die from the same things every other cat dies from...cancer, heart disease, old age, etc.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
There is always a chance!! Never give up, never surrender!!

We've seen cats on insulin for years who eventually went OTJ. And if he never does reach the lofty goal of remission, he can still live a long and healthy life.

Cat's that are treated don't die from diabetes ….they die from the same things every other cat dies from...cancer, heart disease, old age, etc.
Click to expand...


Old age, please. While peacefully sleeping.
 
I’m not surprised to see a bounce. He is just not used to low numbers any more so needs to see lots more blues and greens. It has happened to us all so don’t worry about it. It is normal especially in newly diagnosed cats.
 
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