? 21/2 Mo - +5 437, +9 454 - vomited

katy and mo (GA)

katy and mo (GA)

Member Since 2020
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I missed doing an update yesterday as we were in and out most of the day for a wedding. We will be home all day today :)

Mo's BG is quite high today. Eating food slowly. Still keeping with bupe 3x/day and gaba twice a day. He's been outside a few times today but now he's inside snoozing. He mustn't be feeling too great. The only thing he seems to want to eat at the moment are the FF savoury centres so I'm going to go looking around the city for different flavours today. Paws crossed I find some!

Hope you're all having a good day :)
 
I hope Mo feels better soon. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Have you thought about what you want to do about dosing? And testing?
 
Mo is under the bed and won't come out. I need to give him his meds and do another test but...oh well.

We have another appointment with Pru on Wednesday and I'm not really looking forward to it. I think after this one, we will just stop seeing her. Unless she suggests something extremely helpful for Mo, then it's bye-bye "specialist". I'm just really desperate for Mo to feel better and he just doesn't seem to be improving all the much. It worries me so much.

Wendy&Neko said:
I hope Mo feels better soon. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Have you thought about what you want to do about dosing? And testing?
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Tim has been doing the shots lately as I have been out or still asleep so it's been tricky to get the AMPS and PMPS tests. I just try do them when I can. I have asked him to get them but he keeps forgetting ugh. In terms of dosing I don't know. I just want to have a vet trust that I know what I'm doing with his dosing and that 3-5 units clearly is doing bugger all for him. All the vets in the Wellington region believe that it takes 2 weeks to know what a cat is going to do with that dose of insulin. I know that is not the case. And no vet here will give ANY advice that goes against Pru. It's so frustrating which is why I want to stop seeing her. We can hardly afford her services anyway :(
 
Hi Katy
It doesn’t sound as if you have any vets in your area who are up to date with feline diabetes. This is not uncommon. You don’t have to keep seeing Prue if you don’t want to. Remember you are paying her and if you think her advice is lousy don’t waste your money. Keep it for something worthwhile.

My advice would be to follow the advice of the experienced people here who have Mo’s well-being well and truly in mind when they help you and are very experienced in helping cats who need larger doses of insulin.

When I first came here I was lost as to what to do next. My vet who I liked very much admitted he didn’t know what else to do. The advice I received here for Sheba got her into much better numbers and reduced my stress levels enormously.

Mo obviously needs more insulin and the longer you leave it before increasing the dose the longer it is going to take for Mo to get into half decent numbers and start to feel better.

I’m sorry if what I am about to say sounds very blunt but it is not good enough that Tom keeps forgetting to test Mo before the shots. I would be spitting the dummy and saying it has to be done!. Otherwise you are both just dithering around and Mo is the one who is suffering for it.
He needs more insulin and to safely do that you need to be testing Preshot and at least once during the cycle.

We all care about Mo and you both and only want what is best for Mo:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Bron
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Katy
It doesn’t sound as if you have any vets in your area who are up to date with feline diabetes. This is not uncommon. You don’t have to keep seeing Prue if you don’t want to. Remember you are paying her and if you think her advice is lousy don’t waste your money. Keep it for something worthwhile.

My advice would be to follow the advice of the experienced people here who have Mo’s well-being well and truly in mind when they help you and are very experienced in helping cats who need larger doses of insulin.

When I first came here I was lost as to what to do next. My vet who I liked very much admitted he didn’t know what else to do. The advice I received here for Sheba got her into much better numbers and reduced my stress levels enormously.

Mo obviously needs more insulin and the longer you leave it before increasing the dose the longer it is going to take for Mo to get into half decent numbers and start to feel better.

I’m sorry if what I am about to say sounds very blunt but it is not good enough that Tim keeps forgetting to test Mo before the shots. I would be spitting the dummy and saying it has to be done!. Otherwise you are both just dithering around and Mo is the one who is suffering for it.
He needs more insulin and to safely do that you need to be testing Preshot and at least once during the cycle.

We all care about Mo and you both and only want what is best for Mo:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Bron
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Say I increase Mo to 6 units tonight, what do I say to "the specialist" when she asks how much he is on? Do I lie? Do I tell the truth? I've already been attacked by a vet for following TR protocol because they said I will "kill my cat". The same vet is now happy that Mo is only on 4 units because 9.5 units is WAY too much for a cat (she doesn't know we have since increased). I don't know how to stick up for myself in the moment. Instead I just run out crying. How do I hold my own? They always think they know best. Pru was even saying that she knew a vet that held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing and she thought that was honourable.
 
I'm trying to give him some more gabapentin but he won't let me. What do I do? I don't really have money to take him to the after hours vet
 
He’s eaten fairly well so far today so he may not be hungry just yet. Try again in a while. Offer him something he really likes.

Keep trying for the pee.
How much gabapentin is he having a day?
Is he still getting bupe as well?
 
Yes he is on bupe every 8 hours, 50mg of gabapentin 2x/day and Cerenia once a day. So far he has had 2 doses of bupe, 50mg of gaba given at breakfast, and the syringe of Cerenia.
 
Vet said we can either give him some space and see if he eats soon, otherwise take him in. Hopefully he eats soon. He was very aggressive earlier and was probably upset by us getting him out from under the bed and giving him medications. Then I tested him which he got upset about. Hopefully he calms down
 
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Good idea to let him be for a little bit. If you can get that ketone test done when the opportunity arises that will eliminate that issue.
Maybe put one of his favourite snacks out for him... a little treat and walk away. See if he eats it.

Try and take some deep breaths to try and relax. I know it’s hard when you are worried. Keep us posted. We are here for you.
 
katy and mo said:
Is it safe to give his insulin in 45 minutes if he hasn't eaten this afternoon?
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Yes I would give him the insulin as long as you get a preshot BG and monitor during the cycle. I would not increase the dose this cycle if he has not eaten though.
Insulin is needed for other things in the body apart from bringing the BG down. Hopefully he will eat for you in the first 2 hours of the cycle before onset.
I will be around for several more hours and will watch out for updates.
Are you happy with this?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes I would give him the insulin as long as you get a preshot BG and monitor during the cycle. I would not increase the dose this cycle if he has not eaten though.
Insulin is needed for other things in the body apart from bringing the BG down. Hopefully he will eat for you in the first 2 hours of the cycle before onset.
I will be around for several more hours and will watch out for updates.
Are you happy with this?
Click to expand...
Yes I'm happy with this thank you. I will test
 
I'm sorry, I saw this after I came home from the supermarket. I went to get some different foods that he might he. He has eaten some of the Tuna classic pate. I currently have 3 bowls of different flavours on the go. My house smells of fish. Just about to give him his shot. I remembered we are doing the shots half an hour later at the moment so I was wrong earlier when I said 45 minutes. He is incredibly growly atm so I may need to wait for Tim to get home before I give his shot...I'll try testing.
 
Mo vomited white foam tonight. Heard while we were in bed. Called the After Hours vet and they said to keep an eye on him but not much else they can give him except fluids and he has been drinking so doesn't seem dehydrated. Gave him some gaba and bupe just now. Will see how he goes. I think he's in a lot of pain and not having had his full dose of gaba tonight in his food hasn't helped. For more info, see my World Spreadsheet.
 
katy and mo said:
Mo vomited white foam tonight
Click to expand...
I'm sorry Mo vomited. I hope it settles down soon. has he eaten any more.
Have you tested during the cycle yet?...I would get at least one test in to be safe.
Did you test the preshot at PMPS. Can't see anything written up on the SS.

I am a bit concerned you are giving Mo 100mg gabapentin tomorrow to see the vet. Has he had that much before? If he hasn't eaten much or is drowsy at all I wouldn't give the full dose. I am not a fan of gabapentin at all.

katy and mo said:
what do I say to "the specialist" when she asks how much he is on? Do I lie? Do I tell the truth? I've already been attacked by a vet for following TR protocol because they said I will "kill my cat". The same vet is now happy that Mo is only on 4 units because 9.5 units is WAY too much for a cat (she doesn't know we have since increased). I don't know how to stick up for myself in the moment. Instead I just run out crying. How do I hold my own? They always think they know best. Pru was even saying that she knew a vet that held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing and she thought that was honourable.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you are going back to see Prue when you don't agree with her methods and she upsets you so much..
A cat needs as much insulin as it needs to bring the BG down. We have had cats who have needed far more than 9 units twice a day, and they have done well. The vet who said that 9 units is way too much is not experienced in FD.
You don't have to follow everything Prue says...you have already established she is not very experienced with FD. The mere fact she thought that a vet who held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing was honorable speaks volumes.
When you go in to see Prue, we are going to be with you in spirit and standing right behind you every step of the way. Just say calmly, 'Thank you for your time....we will think about it'. If you feel more comfortable just smile and nod, then go out and do what you feel is right.
It would be best if you and Tim could have a united front if possible..
But try not to let them upset you. Mo is your cat and you have every right in deciding his treatment. You are his advocate
Remember we will be right there behind you.:)

There is a vet in Queensland called Rhett Marshall who has worked out of Queensland Uni and is a world renowned authority on FD....and he knows his stuff. He has written many papers on FD. He helped me once, before I joined the forum. I can give you his contact details and you can speak to him if you like. He empowered me and gave me the courage to keep doing what I was doing when I was lost. He works at one of the Cat Clinics in Brisbane and is very approachable.
 
Have you tried tramadol? My cat, Phoenix, didn't react well to gabapentin either. After a week, we switched to tramadol and it worked great. Hopefully, it might also be a cheaper option for you.
 
katy and mo said:
Mo vomited white foam tonight. Heard while we were in bed. Called the After Hours vet and they said to keep an eye on him but not much else they can give him except fluids and he has been drinking so doesn't seem dehydrated. Gave him some gaba and bupe just now. Will see how he goes. I think he's in a lot of pain and not having had his full dose of gaba tonight in his food hasn't helped. For more info, see my World Spreadsheet.
Click to expand...


Katy, a Pancreatitis attack can dehyrate a cat quickly and they may not look it (it's the Pancreas under attack). So, if he is in an attack...do you have ability to do sub q fluids where you are at, at home? (And do you know to run your finger on gums to test for hydration level? Needs to be slick not tacky). I have turned around attacks with Sub q in addition to Buprenex and Cerenia, but others times too I have been unable to turn attacks around with that protocol and had to hospitalize for IV fluids. The IV fluids can do WONDERS for a Pancreatitis attack, so don't let the vet say that is "all" they can do, it could be what is needed for a few days to get him stabilized.

How is he doing today? If you need to take him in, you can ask the vet perhaps if they will allow you to draw up the insulin and bring it to the hospital for each dose. That way you are still in control of how much he gets, and your technique in drawing it up.
 
The vet had to give my cat sub-q fluids as well. He had at least 6 over a period of 2 days until he came home.
 
what do I say to "the specialist" when she asks how much he is on? Do I lie? Do I tell the truth? I've already been attacked by a vet for following TR protocol because they said I will "kill my cat". The same vet is now happy that Mo is only on 4 units because 9.5 units is WAY too much for a cat (she doesn't know we have since increased). I don't know how to stick up for myself in the moment. Instead I just run out crying. How do I hold my own? They always think they know best. Pru was even saying that she knew a vet that held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing and she thought that was honourable.

My suggestion is that you not discuss his diabetes further with this 'specialist'. It is clear they do not understand FD...

I'm sorry to hear Mo isn't feeling well today and I hope you can figure out what's causing the vomiting or at least hope it settles down soon. You can give sub-q fluids at home - there are folks on here who have done it...there are videos on line to show you how.

Sending get well wishes and prayers for all of you :)
 
Sue and Luci said:
what do I say to "the specialist" when she asks how much he is on? Do I lie? Do I tell the truth? I've already been attacked by a vet for following TR protocol because they said I will "kill my cat". The same vet is now happy that Mo is only on 4 units because 9.5 units is WAY too much for a cat (she doesn't know we have since increased). I don't know how to stick up for myself in the moment. Instead I just run out crying. How do I hold my own? They always think they know best. Pru was even saying that she knew a vet that held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing and she thought that was honourable.

My suggestion is that you not discuss his diabetes further with this 'specialist'. It is clear they do not understand FD...

I'm sorry to hear Mo isn't feeling well today and I hope you can figure out what's causing the vomiting or at least hope it settles down soon. You can give sub-q fluids at home - there are folks on here who have done it...there are videos on line to show you how.

Sending get well wishes and prayers for all of you :)
Click to expand...
I do the same. I agree with my vet to avoid conflict. Then I do what people on this board recommend. When I first joined this board, I thought my vet surely was the most informed. It took me quite a while to learn because I am hard headed. I trust the people on this board now.

I do trust my own intuition as well. If you think the medicine is making Mo sick, you are the best authority. You are there with Mo and know his behavior better than anyone. Usually, your instincts are correct.
 
Scdal said:
I do the same. I agree with my vet to avoid conflict. Then I do what people on this board recommend. When I first joined this board, I thought my vet surely was the most informed. It took me quite a while to learn because I am hard headed. I trust the people on this board now.

I do trust my own intuition as well. If you think the medicine is making Mo sick, you are the best authority. You are there with Mo and know his behavior better than anyone. Usually, your instincts are correct.
Click to expand...

Exactly!

I do the same - I tell my vet that Luci's diabetic and listen politely to him tell me to buy the DM food 'because it's best for diabetics'...and to come back for them to determine her best dose...blah, blah, blah...and I say uh huh...and hmm...and thank you very much..pay my bill and leave to return to the forum where I've learned that the information here is far better than any I've ever gotten from a vet - I KNOW there are good vets out there with skill...but I have not had the opportunity to run into one - yet....
 
katy and mo said:
Mo vomited white foam tonight. Heard while we were in bed. Called the After Hours vet and they said to keep an eye on him but not much else they can give him except fluids and he has been drinking so doesn't seem dehydrated. Gave him some gaba and bupe just now. Will see how he goes. I think he's in a lot of pain and not having had his full dose of gaba tonight in his food hasn't helped. For more info, see my World Spreadsheet.
Click to expand...
Hang in there ! I know this is extremely stressful. I had my vet tell me to prepare myself. That was a year ago. Now, he is better than he was has been in years. He runs around outside, alert , and steals food of the counter if given the opportunity. You and Mo will make it through this rough patch.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
I'm sorry Mo vomited. I hope it settles down soon. has he eaten any more.
Have you tested during the cycle yet?...I would get at least one test in to be safe.
Did you test the preshot at PMPS. Can't see anything written up on the SS.

I am a bit concerned you are giving Mo 100mg gabapentin tomorrow to see the vet. Has he had that much before? If he hasn't eaten much or is drowsy at all I wouldn't give the full dose. I am not a fan of gabapentin at all.



I'm not sure why you are going back to see Prue when you don't agree with her methods and she upsets you so much..
A cat needs as much insulin as it needs to bring the BG down. We have had cats who have needed far more than 9 units twice a day, and they have done well. The vet who said that 9 units is way too much is not experienced in FD.
You don't have to follow everything Prue says...you have already established she is not very experienced with FD. The mere fact she thought that a vet who held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing was honorable speaks volumes.
When you go in to see Prue, we are going to be with you in spirit and standing right behind you every step of the way. Just say calmly, 'Thank you for your time....we will think about it'. If you feel more comfortable just smile and nod, then go out and do what you feel is right.
It would be best if you and Tim could have a united front if possible..
But try not to let them upset you. Mo is your cat and you have every right in deciding his treatment. You are his advocate
Remember we will be right there behind you.:)

There is a vet in Queensland called Rhett Marshall who has worked out of Queensland Uni and is a world renowned authority on FD....and he knows his stuff. He has written many papers on FD. He helped me once, before I joined the forum. I can give you his contact details and you can speak to him if you like. He empowered me and gave me the courage to keep doing what I was doing when I was lost. He works at one of the Cat Clinics in Brisbane and is very approachable.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for this Bron! We didn't test last night as he was so growly and aggressive we had to leave him be. It took a lot just to get the medication into him.

Mo actually does really well on Gabapentin! He got worse when we tried taking him off it a couple weeks ago so we just leave him on it. He has to have 100mg if we are going to the vet and he needs tests done so that he doesn't attack any of the nurses/vets.

Thank you for the advice regarding Pru! I have told Tim that if I am not happy with what she has to say on Wednesday then we will not go back. I'm hoping that she will be able to do an ultrasound or something along those lines as her vet clinic is the only one that can do it. Otherwise, I'll just stop going back. I can manage the diabetes at home with the help of the board, you are so right!

Rhett Marshall...I will look into him thanks! Do you think he would be interested in speaking to me though??

Thank you so much :bighug:
 
Scdal said:
Have you tried tramadol? My cat, Phoenix, didn't react well to gabapentin either. After a week, we switched to tramadol and it worked great. Hopefully, it might also be a cheaper option for you.
Click to expand...
I haven't! Maybe that's something I can look into. Mo seems to do well on Gabapentin though but will keep it in mind :)

Margaret (and Pearl) said:
Katy, a Pancreatitis attack can dehyrate a cat quickly and they may not look it (it's the Pancreas under attack). So, if he is in an attack...do you have ability to do sub q fluids where you are at, at home? (And do you know to run your finger on gums to test for hydration level? Needs to be slick not tacky). I have turned around attacks with Sub q in addition to Buprenex and Cerenia, but others times too I have been unable to turn attacks around with that protocol and had to hospitalize for IV fluids. The IV fluids can do WONDERS for a Pancreatitis attack, so don't let the vet say that is "all" they can do, it could be what is needed for a few days to get him stabilized.

How is he doing today? If you need to take him in, you can ask the vet perhaps if they will allow you to draw up the insulin and bring it to the hospital for each dose. That way you are still in control of how much he gets, and your technique in drawing it up.
Click to expand...

We don't have Sub q fluids, I will call the vet today and ask for some!!!

He is doing better today! I will explain more in my post for today :) Thank you :bighug:
Sue and Luci said:
what do I say to "the specialist" when she asks how much he is on? Do I lie? Do I tell the truth? I've already been attacked by a vet for following TR protocol because they said I will "kill my cat". The same vet is now happy that Mo is only on 4 units because 9.5 units is WAY too much for a cat (she doesn't know we have since increased). I don't know how to stick up for myself in the moment. Instead I just run out crying. How do I hold my own? They always think they know best. Pru was even saying that she knew a vet that held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing and she thought that was honourable.

My suggestion is that you not discuss his diabetes further with this 'specialist'. It is clear they do not understand FD...

I'm sorry to hear Mo isn't feeling well today and I hope you can figure out what's causing the vomiting or at least hope it settles down soon. You can give sub-q fluids at home - there are folks on here who have done it...there are videos on line to show you how.

Sending get well wishes and prayers for all of you :)
Click to expand...

Scdal said:
I do the same. I agree with my vet to avoid conflict. Then I do what people on this board recommend. When I first joined this board, I thought my vet surely was the most informed. It took me quite a while to learn because I am hard headed. I trust the people on this board now.

I do trust my own intuition as well. If you think the medicine is making Mo sick, you are the best authority. You are there with Mo and know his behavior better than anyone. Usually, your instincts are correct.
Click to expand...
Sue and Luci said:
Exactly!

I do the same - I tell my vet that Luci's diabetic and listen politely to him tell me to buy the DM food 'because it's best for diabetics'...and to come back for them to determine her best dose...blah, blah, blah...and I say uh huh...and hmm...and thank you very much..pay my bill and leave to return to the forum where I've learned that the information here is far better than any I've ever gotten from a vet - I KNOW there are good vets out there with skill...but I have not had the opportunity to run into one - yet....
Click to expand...
You guys are SO right! I will just discuss the pancreatitis with the vet. I'll avoid the conflict by just smiling and nodding. i'm in control here. Thank you for empowering me!! :D

Scdal said:
Hang in there ! I know this is extremely stressful. I had my vet tell me to prepare myself. That was a year ago. Now, he is better than he was has been in years. He runs around outside, alert , and steals food of the counter if given the opportunity. You and Mo will make it through this rough patch.
Click to expand...
That is SO promising to hear, thank you so much! So glad your boy is feeling better! Long may it stay that way :bighug:
 
katy and mo said:
Do I tell the truth? I've already been attacked by a vet for following TR protocol because they said I will "kill my cat". The same vet is now happy that Mo is only on 4 units because 9.5 units is WAY too much for a cat (she doesn't know we have since increased). I don't know how to stick up for myself in the moment. Instead I just run out crying. How do I hold my own? They always think they know best. Pru was even saying that she knew a vet that held the dose for 4 weeks before increasing and she thought that was honourable.
Click to expand...
Just a little ammunition for your soul. There are cats out there that have done TR and on higher doses. Amethyst's SS - a thing of beauty, on Levemir and cabergoline. Crystal's SS - scroll down to mid July 2015, rather larger doses than we typically see, but got well controlled with no treatment but insulin. Mr. Grey - scroll down to mid March 2013 and see what happened at 9.5 units. :cool: I could find lots more examples of cats doing well on 9.5 + units. Be strong for Mo - you know him best. :bighug:

Tramadol is really strong! It was my vet's third choice for pain control after buprenorphine and gabapentin.
 
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