2020/09/10- new member- abbey on lantus

Hello,

a new member here but long time FB group member. Abbey has had diabetes for 3 years and I always test her BG before giving insulin (lantus)

we live in Sydney Australia

abbey has been well, she’s acting like herself, she’s eating well, not drinking too much, her coat looks good..

The main thing that’s led me here though is that I can’t seem to get her sugar down? And I’ve starting testing randomly throughout the day and she seems to be staying high all day.. like the insulin is not working? Or not working properly.


I should add her “usual” dose has been 1 unit.. I have tried to up it abit to about 1 and 1/4 b that doesn’t seem to make a difference.. I’m thinking of going up to 1.5 units and monitoring more closely to see if that does the trick


Last night at 8pm she was 22.8 and I gave her 1 unit

this morning at 8am she was 20.05.. and then again today at 11am she is 21.4 (at this point she has only had breakfast 1 can ) but at 11am I have her about a table spoon on wet food. She eats fancy feast pate wet food. She eats one can in the morning, usually another for lunch (or half a can) and another can for dinner.



I have booked a vet appointment to have bloods checked and just a general checkup. I am just looking for advice on maybe something else the vet should check for? Is there something I’m missing that could be causing her to be staying high throughout the day? Lately she has been 20 something for the entire day


Thanks in advance xx (p.s trying to figure out the google docs, I’m currently working so I’ll get around to that soon) also she’s eating throughout the day.. could this be why she’s staying high? If that’s the case could these numbers be safe because their because she’s constantly eating? Surely these numbers all day will cause harm eventually??

 

Welcome to fdmb forum.
I cant give dosing advice but I cant help but wonder if your insulin has gone off? I dont know someone here will be able to help you sort this out.
Lots of lantus users here!

WELCOME TO OUR FAMILY!
jeanne

 

Thank you! I have thought that too.. it shouldnt be off but I do have another brand new one I accidentally grabbed and used and I thought to myself “ oh it’s okay that I used that because now we will see if there was an issue with the insulin being off“ but there was no difference.. granted though I did buy all the insulin’s together so if one is off they should all be off... I will ask the vet for a new prescription to check this.. just checked and insulin is in date until 06/22 .. I might start a new vial to be sure nothing is wrong with mine that I’ve been using for a while .. maybe the exposure to the needle can mess with it? Is that a thing?

 

Welcome to the FDMB Milly! Glad to see you over here from the FB group!

These are the MOST important things!! We tend to get lost in the numbers and forget there's a living, breathing cat in the picture too.

The dose she needs can vary quite a bit. If you hold a dose too long that's not working, it can cause some glucose toxicity which basically means her body gets used to being higher than normal even with the insulin and you have to increase it more than you might have had to if you hadn't held the dose too long.

It will really help us to help you if you get one of our spreadsheets done and put in the last week or two's numbers (your meter should have 30 days stored). Here are the instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet (and if you need help with it, I'm more than happy to set one up for you. You can contact me here by clicking on my name and choosing "start a conversation" or by sending me a PM on Facebook.)

As long as it's low carb (which the Fancy Feast Classics are), they shouldn't cause high numbers throughout the day. Most of us feed our own cats multiple times a day because it's easier on the pancreas to deal with smaller, more frequent meals than 2 big ones.

Cats tolerate high numbers better than humans do but yes, high numbers put extra strain on the kidneys and other organs so eventually, they do cause harm.

Hang in there! We'll help you any way we can!

 

Do you refrigerate the insulin? NOT in the door on the shelf?

 

Thank you so much for your replies. I have gone back over my meter and I haven’t been checking 100% of the time so there are days where I juts have a reading for the morning or just for the night for example, because she’s been so high and Ive known the likihood is that she will need her usual 1 unit and not less.. I’m going to stop doing that now though and test 100% of the time each time because I want to try to get these numbers normal again.. well somewhat normal.. for a long time she would start the day at about 15 and then with insulin go down to about 4-6 and then back up to about 15 before insulin


Anyway, I’m going through the metre and she has been around 18-21 for like over a month now.. I will work on getting this onto a spreadsheet as soon as I can

I think I get afraid to give her extra insulin because I know going low is worse than going high but I guess I just need to go up in tiny increments and as long as I’m testing her Enough then it should be safe to do so

I usually go between 1 unit - 1 and 1/4 unit (hard to measure that but I try)

I’m thinking for tonight’s shot I will give her 1 and 1/2 unit and slowly go up from there to see if it helps

also, yes I do keep The insulin in the fridge and I do keep it in the door of the fridge.. does the door make a difference?
Thank you so much again for your replies

 

We don't recommend keeping it in the door because of the temperature changes (since the door gets opened so much)...it's better to keep it on a shelf towards the middle in the main part of the fridge.

 

and it can get knocked around in the door. Open shut open shut . Not food for the insulin.

 

Hi Milly and Abbey!

Saw your post on the FB group and came straight over to welcome you. You’ll have wonderful support here.

Kozmo and I are Aussie’s too (Sunshine Coast, Qld) but we live in the U.K. now.

 

Hello everyone thanks for your replies.. good to see another Aussie here too haha

Okay so abbey is still well and acting fine but her sugar is still high

I’m trying to work on the spreadsheet but it’s so hard I’m working from home and I’m so busy.. also tonight I’m going away.. terrible timing with abbeys issues

I will be away for 4 feeds / shots and my dad will do them (he’s good with giving her needles) he’s not 100% on checking BG but he will try for me


Still working on the spreadsheet but in a nutshell abbeys been at 18-21 Consistently for about a month


Yesterday 10/9/2020

8am - 20.5 (1 & 1/4 unit given)
11am- 21.4
2pm 21.3
5pm 20.3
8pm 22.4 (1.5 units given)
11pm 17.9

today 11/9

8am - 22 (1.5 unit given)
1130am - 22.4 (might have been higher because a pest control guy came around and she was scared and hiding from him)
2pm - 20.9 (given table spoon of wet food)


I’ve been reading about glucose toxicity like someone suggested and that’s abit scary.. the insulin seems to be bringing her numbers down slightly but not nearly enough

I don’t know if it’s relevant but I guess I should add lately when she’s had higher numbers I’ve given her abit of cat nip in hopes that if she’s in any pain (even though she doesn’t act like she’s in pain) that it might help that

I’m wondering if having it in the fridge has made its shelf life go faster..I’m hoping that’s what it is! I can go get new insulin, but with me going away fr from tonight I don’t want dad to be giving her regular 1 & 1/4 doses on brand new insulin if I’m not there to monitor closely


So I’m not sure what my question is really. I guess I just wanted to give an update.. when I’m back on Sunday afternoon I’ll get new insulin and start from there but I’m happy that after giving her 1.5 units last night there was a drop down to 17 .. maybe it’s simply that her dosage needs to be higher, that’s most ideal!
Hope you all have a good weekend

 

Hi Milly,

Welcome to yourself and Abby.

I see you've already had some good suggestions.

I'd just like to add that if it's a while since Abby has seen the vet it might be a good idea to take her in for a check-up. Infection and/or inflammation can cause increases in BG levels. Common offenders are urinary tract and dental issues.


Mogs
.

 

Hey! Yes I agree

my sister did her BG for me last night and she was still high at 20.. and then she also pee’d on the dining table which is out of character for her.. my sister said she remains looking well though

when I heard about that my first thought was I wonder if there’s a UTI

she has a vet appointment in a week but I’m going to call and bring it forward to Monday to have a blood check.

 

Let us know how she gets on. Perhaps ask the vet to give her teeth a once over as well.


Mogs
.

 

Hi everyone Abbey has had her blood test and I have started the spread sheet. Here is a link to her vet report, please let me know if this image link works - https://ibb.co/sJNwrvn
The vet told me that basically her numbers are not in control, they are too high and that they need to be brought down to avoid further damage. He said her kidneys are all good and something i believe in relation to the lymphocyles? means she is breaking down her cells due to the high BG?
I have advised him I have upped her insulin already and I am seeing that the numbers are slowly coming down. (i have gone from 1 unit to 1.5 units)
He recommends and I agree that I give 1.5 - 2 units and start monitoring more closely while doing this. I'm going to do this, keep a record and update him at the end of the week and go from there. He wants to get the BG in check and then re do the blood tests. Her teeth do need a scale and clean but they said they are alright for now and we will do that later once her sugars are better. She is still acting fine, she seems well and she is being herself and going to the toilet normally.

Abbey has a cat friend next door and every so often she goes over there to hangout with him. The neighbour is aware abbey has diabetes and ive asked her not to feed her because of it before. Ive noticed that when Abbey does go over the fence she comes back with a much higher BG and a full belly. As sad as it is because the neighbour is nice and all and Abbeys just chilling out with her cat friend, ive decided this week to begin locking her in all day to help keep her numbers in check, I feel like i cant ask the neighbour to not leave her cats food outside because of abbeys diabetes, really she probably shouldn't be going anywhere at all so unfortunately she will miss her cat friend for a bit. He did pop his head over the other day, he seemed to be looking for her lol.

Anyway that is my update for now, and i will try to attach my BG spread sheet here. Please let me know if i am meant to be adding this spreadsheet here or somewhere else? Also, should i be converting the numbers to the American numbers? (please note i think my BG monitor wasnt keeping all the dates on there so im going to begin writing down the numbers daily to avoid any data loss but there are quite a few dates in the past i dont have numbers for but i would say they mostly averaged to be around 20)


TIA!! x

 

Unfortunately your spreadsheet wont work here. May I suggest you load ours? This way anyone here can view it and help with your readings. You can find how to create that here:
FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

 

Hey all I think i have got it right.... i have also updated my signature.. incase it doesnt show when i post, the link to the spread sheet is here - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...fBb8iTlCiUNTcBd8uNASgmaIMbjbTZEVJcPUw/pubhtml

 

So im just going over the spread sheet and I can see that abbey is mostly in the "red" or "pink" category. I know her numbers are too high, but what colour category is most ideal for a diabetic cat? i'm imagining I should be aiming for yellow and blue numbers? would that be correct?

Also i forgot to add... ive gone from 1 to 2 units about 2 weeks ago... and from today i gave 2 and 1/4 units.... if tomorrows reading is still not low enough I was thinking of giving 2 & 1/2 units or am I going up in insulin dosage too quickly ? i'm home all day (working from home) so I will be monitoring her and checking BG

 

May I respectfully ask you to please set up your signature? I looked for what insulin type you are using in this last post ans it would benefit us ALL if you had this pertinent information at a glance in your signature. Here are the instructions:

• On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature. This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
  • There is a limit of two lines which may include two links; you may separate pieces with commas, dashes, | etc. This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
  • Add any other text, such as
  • Caregiver & kitty's name (optional)
  • DX: Date
  • Name of Insulin
  • Name of your meter
  • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
  • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
  • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
  • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
  • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
  • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.

Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Its easier than it looks and you find "Settings" in the dark blue band going across the top of the page. see? your name is ther. just click on your name.

 

You ultimately want to have numbers in the blue and greens.
Here is the dosing protocol for lantus:
Dosing Methods: Start Low, Go Slow (SLGS) & Tight Regulation (TR)