20/8th LB 139 Amps, 90 +3, 34 +5, 56 +7, 72 +9 - advice?

[Anyname]

I have heard others say that they miss a dose sometimes. Under what circumstances is this acceptable? Little Boy's numbers are dropping dramatically now. Obviously we fed him after the +5 reading. A few biscuits with fresh chicken. We use cat biscuits when numbers low (about 3 times since dx). The food isn't bringing his numbers up a great deal. There seems to be some kind of turn around in his situation. I have read the Qld protocol but am nervous about giving him 4 units tonight as I won't be testing him thru the night. Usually when his numbers have gone low there's a bounce the next day - but over all he's continuing to respond to treatment. It's very exciting to see but somewhat scary as we had an unexpected 34 this morning. He had eaten around 5am and still tested 139 at Amps. I think this indicates a response to the program and we are really happy to see it.

What level (low number) would cause a hypo attack?

 

[kate and lucky]

Hi,
The 34 definitely means a dose reduction. Usually this would be .25u.
You will need to wait till you get your preshot number to make a decision as to whether you need to decrease it more on this shot.

Don't be scared, your in control as you know Little Boy and his numbers

What I would recommend for the future, is you find high carb wet food.About 25%.
Reason for this is that it raises bg's quick, but temporarily-so you have to keep monitoring and possibly topping up.
With dry food, it takes time to kick in (time your cat may not have-does depend on their carb sensitivity) and then can send their bg numbers to the moon.Every cat is different(ECID), but experience shows wet HC gives you better control.

He's surfing at the moment. I'm going off line for a couple of hours after this.
Depends on your reason for not monitoring tonight-sleep or actually going out?
If your home, I know it's not fantastic but you could set your alarm to get up and check.
Alternatively you give a BCS (Scuse language-big chicken sh*t dose :lol: )keeps his numbers higher, though you still must get at least a +2 if not 3 if he is under 200 when you shoot.

You've done great, you have lots of data.You may have what is called your breakthrough dose here, and from now on start moving down the dosing ladder.
As for hypo-in a newly diagnosed cat, you don't really want them under 50. Again, signs of hypo can vary from cat to cat and whether they themselves recognise they are low and seek food to bring their numbers up.
So under 50 is your guide.See you've had 40 and that's oksih-your just trying to keep a safety margin. Cats who've been diagnosed longer tend to have 40 as their cut off before earning a dose reduction (have to work harder for it)
Lucky was 27 once and no signs of hypo-but bear in mind your meter and again the ECID.Hence the 50 marker.


Hopefully others will be around if you need them. If not-do what is comfortable for you.Little boy is your kitty, you can see him, I can't.

I'm sure you'll be fine.
Good Luck :mrgreen:

 

[Anyname]

Excellent help, many thanx.

I didn't know that wet food is better for low numbers. He wasn't acting hungry. If not for testing we wouldn't have noticed any difference in him. More docile maybe but he often sleeps the day away. I will monitor more tonight. Our son is staying over and usually stays up till all hours. I'm not quite sure waht the CSD. Does that mean if his numbers are below 200 at pmps that I should dose him at something like 2 units? CSD meaning coward dose???

:::As for hypo-in a newly diagnosed cat, you don't really want them under 50. Again, signs of hypo can vary from cat to cat and whether they themselves recognise they are low and seek food to bring their numbers up.

LB doesn't seem as interested in food when his numbers are low. It's the only time he isn't interested in food.

::::So under 50 is your guide.See you've had 40 and that's oksih-your just trying to keep a safety margin. Cats who've been diagnosed longer tend to have 40 as their cut off before earning a dose reduction (have to work harder for it).

*I* think LB had diabetes since March/April. Dx early June. Compared to how he looked back then he a 'new man'.

::::Lucky was 27 once and no signs of hypo-but bear in mind your meter and again the ECID.Hence the 50 marker.

The meter should be ok. Good brand. I read that stuff on our hands can change the reading. Must wash before testing. The thing is that his numbers should start to come up as the insulin wears down for the day. I am really, really glad to get your comments Kate. Very helpful.

 

[kate and lucky]

Hi again,

not sure where your at with shot times? I'm at work but means I can keep an eye out if you need it for the next few hours.

It's good for you to know that he doesn't really go for food if he's low, though it means you need to be on the ball with monitoring. Some cats are like this so LB isn't doing it on purpose :lol:

It's BCS= Big Chicken Sh*t dose. Effectively yes a cowardly dose. But actually it means your being cautious. People often forget that insulin is a powerful drug and should be treated with the upmost respect and caution.
People (beans we say here-there's a dictionary in one of the stickies)give BCS for a multitude of reasons=need to go to work but numbesrs still too low.Not around to monitor and kitty doesn't tend to seek food out if low(situation that may apply to you at some point).Not enough data collected to predict/guesstimate the pattern etc.

The thing with the wet food is that it starts working almost immediately (bg wise) whereas dry food has to be broken down first before thise carbs are released and able to bring up bg's.Also because dry food tends to be 40%+ carbs, once it kicks in it keps going. WQet food of 25%, starts working straight away but les likely to send kitty to the moon.
Again ECID. My Lucky wasn't carb sensitive and I quickly learned that I could use anything from 11-25% wet food to bring her numbers up and thus prevent a bounce/moon number.This is something you learn together through testing and recording your findings.


If LB was only diagnosed in March ths year, still classed as newly diagnosed.Usually 1yr to 18months that considered longer term.Though as usual ECID :mrgreen: AND WE HAVE HAD KITTIES COME OFF INSULIN AFTER 2 YEARS! iT'S JUST LESS LIKELY AS TIME GOES ON. bUT NEVER SAY NEVER :mrgreen: Darn, sorry missed the case button!

The thing with every human glucometer is that there can be a 20#% variance.You don't worry about this, but could mean at times kitty isn't actaully as low as meter says. What you must do is always use the same meter (or take into account when you swap)and go by the numbers it provides.That's why the 40 or 50 are guide numbers across the board.

Usually cats numbers go down as the insulin time passes, but again ECID.Some cats nadir at the end of the cycle-rare but does happen.Only with testing do you find out if this applies to your cat. Other times it is because they are surfing.This is good, though can be a tad frustrating at shot time if they are still in the greens and your not sure whether to shoot the full dose.

Always, always, in my opinion, if you are not sure, err on the side of caution. A day or two of high numbers is better than a visit to the vet or worse the loss of your kitty.

Be watching for you-scritches to LB cat_pet_icon

 

[Anyname]

AGain, thanks for your input. LB eaten up a storm for the latter part of the day - I let him eat more than usual coz of earlier low numbers. Consequently the numbers shot up by late afternoon so not worried about the rest of the night. Tomorrow's amps reading will be interesting. I have a sense we are at a place where we need to be vigilant re low numbers and if I can resist giving him too much food I feel we will be easing down on insulin. Next time this happens I won't use food to control it but lighten up on dosage. LB is just a bit too heavy for optimum health. Over all I'm really pleased with how it's working out. I've had low numbers before followed by higher numbers which I put down to his body over reacting to the lower numbers. The good thing is that his trend is down in spite of a few bounce back high numbers.

It's all been very rewarding - far more so than we could ever have imagined.

 

[Pat+Raja+Shadow (GA)]

Here is a link for Hypo symptoms: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... msg-925783
It is from the sticky at the top of the page "STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - NEW TO THE GROUP? PLEASE READ..." viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18139

The canned foods with gravy are excellent at bringing up lower numbers. Shadow doesn't seem to be very hungry when he goes low too at times....I have used a large syringe to feed him the gravy on many occasions. You use just the gravy from the can and offer it to him....check again in 15 minutes and give more gravy if necessary. You don't want him filling up on the solid HC food just yet.
It is good to have some canned HC on hand at all times for the times when he goes low.