2. Java, elder cat

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717 again this morning....In his lower ear, a good blood drop.
Is there any reason I'd go higher than 1.75? Argh, poor kitty.
Edit-- he had ringers 2 days ago, I can give him ringers again this morning. That helps bring him down.
 
Lois and Java said:
717 again this morning....In his lower ear, a good blood drop.
Is there any reason I'd go higher than 1.75? Argh, poor kitty.
Edit-- he had ringers 2 days ago, I can give him ringers again this morning. That helps bring him down.
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Try not to dose according to bounce numbers. Keep the 1.75 u for now. I think that changing things too much/too often can make bouncing worse.
 
433 at + 3 and a half. I've topped him off with 125 milliliters of Ringer's at noon, +4. I have a lot of errands to run but luckily they're in town so I can come and go from the house.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Still bouncing ... it'll pass. :)
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I hope so. Fingers and toes crossed!

Edit: 222 at almost +7.
I think Ringers helps.
Back out, more errands. He wants to go out, haven't let him yet, to sleep etc. Soon!

300 , +9. His life has narrowed so much in the last couple of days. He doesn't seem to enjoy being outside very much, tho' he did wander around on the decks for about 45 minutes. He'd rather be on his pillow. I wonder if his legs really hurt. I have the gabapentin and bupe. Not fond of how much it made him blotto though. Oy.
 
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634.
1.75 would be the usual.
298 at +4
268 at +7
Leaving YA down until amps pretime, taking up FF now, hypo seems remote. Maybe he'll be lower in am. Hoping!
 
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He's at 298 at +4. I gave him a Vit B12 shot at +3.
We just got back from an evening stroll down to the little seasonal creek for some water and back.
If only he could stay between 100-300. I can dream.
The Vit B, a miracle drug?
Discovered that I made assumptions about Zobaline that I should not have.
It's only 3 mg. B. What?! Did not do good due diligence.
I have contacted a mobile vet who comes highly recommended, asked for appt, I need more support. I keep effing things up! And I don't know how often to give the Ringers, since the vet's rec to do Ringer's one day and NaCl the next = bad idea. Daily? Ev other day? Should I ask Marje?
On the plus side, I napped with the cats during the 2-hr no-food PMPS period.
It's a rush to get insulin in him in the AM after a test and food. I'm hoping he'll be low, but prob not.
Stay with the 1.75?
 
I'd ask Marje probably. I'm not super educated about the ringers.

I think he's still bouncing, honestly. I'd stick with it for now.
 
Lois and Java said:
He's at 298 at +4. I gave him a Vit B12 shot at +3.
We just got back from an evening stroll down to the little seasonal creek for some water and back.
If only he could stay between 100-300. I can dream.
The Vit B, a miracle drug?
Discovered that I made assumptions about Zobaline that I should not have.
It's only 3 mg. B. What?! Did not do good due diligence.
I have contacted a mobile vet who comes highly recommended, asked for appt, I need more support. I keep effing things up! And I don't know how often to give the Ringers, since the vet's rec to do Ringer's one day and NaCl the next = bad idea. Daily? Ev other day? Should I ask Marje?
On the plus side, I napped with the cats during the 2-hr no-food PMPS period.
It's a rush to get insulin in him in the AM after a test and food. I'm hoping he'll be low, but prob not.
Stay with the 1.75?
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Keep the same dose for a bit, Lois.
 
Lois and Java said:
703 at 5:30 am, um, +10
Poor kitty.
Does anyone give insulin every 8 or 9 hours?
Back to sleep, thanks, see you in daylight.
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Some people do TID dosing (every 8 hours) but it requires a lot more testing and is very hard on the owner wrt having any sort of life. My opinion is that it's best to do what's sustainable over time. The FD journey is hard enough as it is.
 
Picked up more injectable B12 from the vet. Have prescriptions for more ringers, for B12, which the internet tells me is available cheaply; we shall see.
Talked with vet tech a lot; vet was doing surgeries. Pet owner in waiting room who'd been through feline diabetes was very helpful, esp re pain mgmt. in general.
Trying a trace of Bupe with a Java. Filled syringe to .01. Emptied it. I have liquid in a little jar. Rubbed syringe with traces bupe on outside of it on J's gum, filled empty syringe h2o, squirt. Watching.
He appeared alert and interested when I got home. Watch to see if it knocks him out or what.
BG pretty good so far. Hoping it stays this way until PMPS.
 
Yong said:
How much does the injectable B12 cost you, Lois?
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From the vet, preloaded in syringes, he's charging about $7 per syringe.
The internet tells me a vial of liquid B12 is about ten bucks. I haven't tried to buy any yet.

I think the experiment with bupe was very good. He behaved the way he did before he was ill, for about 2 1/2 hours, instead of sleeping more than being awake. Followed me around, just keeping an eye on things. Went to the top of the stairs to greet me, way he did every day after work. Sat for a long time in the place where he used to get treats.
 
Djamila said:
So glad to hear that the bupe seems to be helping!
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Now I'm getting worried that he's experiencing the known side effect of agitation. He's having a hard time settling.
Maybe I'm just being jumpy, I don't know. His pupils weren't huge before, now they are.
 
Djamila said:
I haven't used bupe before. How long does it last? Hopefully he'll settle down soon. Here's some music he can listen to....
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I don't remember. Catster says, A standard dosage takes about half an hour to 45 minutes to start working, and its effects on a cat can last from four to eight hours.
He's sleeping now.
Soothing music, plus great cat photos! Thanks. He can only hear a little bit now, but I enjoyed it.
 
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Having him so near his old self this afternoon made me realize how much he isn't, much of the time now.

Edit:. 172 at +5 and 1/4.
He's awake, hunching, I wish he'd lie down and sleep...There he goes lying down. not interested in YA food. Suspect hungry. Wish I could keep him from carbs, keep BG down, but he's so skinny.
He's had some FF, BG prob high thus coming am. Back to sleep. He looks comfy now. Hope he is.
 
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You're getting some decent overnight cycles right now. Just look past the bounce numbers and focus on the yellows/blues because they tell the story about the dose. His BG is unstable and he's unpredictable, probably because of myriad physiologic processes associated with age and other health issues. That probably won't change, Lois. Just do the best you can to keep him comfortable and able to enjoy his little old man pleasures. That sounds sad but it isn't, really. The fact that he's as old as he is is a testament to the great care you've given him.

Now this part is much easier said than done: if you hover over him too much in a state of anxiety over whether this moment is "it", he'll sense that and it won't be to his benefit. The more you can just enjoy every moment even as you treat his FD and other issues, the better off you'll both be. Aim to be as "zen" as you can. :bighug:
 
Excellent advice, Kris, yes, some of the easier to do than others.
I read somewhere maybe on the grief page in re euthanasia, "better a moment too soon than a minute too late" and now am worried that I might be making him suffer with pain or discomfort. Wish they could talk, darn it.

I'm unsure whether to try bupe again or not.

I haven't settled on how often I should do the ringers. Off to read more at Tanya's.

We're having more rain again, unbelievably, and so Lily has decided to warm herself on Java. Photo, including my sleeve. All in bed together.
 
Lois and Java said:
Excellent advice, Kris, yes, some of the easier to do than others.
I read somewhere maybe on the grief page in re euthanasia, "better a moment too soon than a minute too late" and now am worried that I might be making him suffer with pain or discomfort. Wish they could talk, darn it.

I'm unsure whether to try bupe again or not.

I haven't settled on how often I should do the ringers. Off to read more at Tanya's.

We're having more rain again, unbelievably, and so Lily has decided to warm herself on Java. Photo, including my sleeve. All in bed together.
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Very sweet!
 
Lois, I can't even imagine how difficult it is to make this decision. My neighbor, the absolute image of the "crazy cat lady" has told me for years that they can talk to us, if we quiet ourselves and listen. I know it sounds funny, but I kind of believe her. I pray that Java would be able to "speak" to you about what he needs right now, so that you can have wisdom and peace with each day's decisions for him.

On a lighter note, your picture of Lily and Java is adorable!
 
Uck, another of those days when it appears as if the am shot was a fur shot, yet I'd swear it wasn't.
577 AMPS
1.75 U
654 at +4
On the positive side, we all went outside after the +4 test, and he got up to one of his favorite lookout spots under his own steam.

The vet I wanted to consult with hasn't called me back. I need to follow up on that. Reading more at Tanya's, I'd internalised that the use of subq fluids was in essence washing them out. She (via cited vet info) makes it pretty clear that that isn't the case, and to a certain degree, processing the fluids is hard on them. Damn it I need a vet that's more help.
 
So hey, I'm now at + 10, and poor Java's BG is up to 681. Can I give him insulin early? How early? He normally gets test/ food/ insulin between 7 and 8 my time... It's 5 p.m. my time.
Edit, he was tested at 7:30 am and got a shot at 8 am.
I think if I test at 6:30 pm and shoot at 7 pm, that's 1 hr early and should be okay. But can I do it 30, 60 minutes sooner? Get some insulin in the poor boy.
 
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Yong said:
Remember though, even if you change time a little, it's not going to kick in right away :bighug:
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I'm torn between wanting to get insulin as quickly as possible, and wanting him to have dose that lasts through the night.

Just want to vent about these shots! I swear they're not fur shots. Never gotten an answer to this question though, are there any situations where insulin is ineffective. In other words, does it have to be a fur shot, there is no other explanation? I'm very careful. I know we all are and that they happen. Yong, when you had fur shots did you know it right away, or only when you could see that insulin wasn't working? If you don't mind being an example!
 
Not at all :). I've only had 1 100% confirmed fur shot because there was resistance in the syringe and I thought I pulled it out a little to avoid whatever was block and insulin went on his fur. The one on 26 Feb was a guess because of his numbers.
 
I've known mine were fur shots because there was a tiny little bit of fur clumping together from being wet, and when I stuck my nose in it, it smelled like bandaids.
 
I squirted a little bit of insulin out last time I was being cranky about a fur shot so I'd know what the smell is. I smelled him this morning, no moisture, no smell. Frustrating.

What would happen if a human accidentally stabbed themselves and got some prozinc in their system?
 
I don't know the answer to that, but I don't think it's a good idea. Maybe inject a piece of fruit if you just want to practice.
 
That's a good idea, although I wasn't thinking about practicing shooting. I feel pretty confident about that although maybe I should practice!

I was putting the cap on the end to carry the syringe to him, and just wondering what would happen if I accidentally stabbed myself. Does it become a medical emergency for the human? Or it is the difference in body weight so significant that you can eat a teaspoon of honey and not worry about it? Just curious.
 
I thought it was made out of pork enzymes or something. Recombinant human insulin is clearly a term of art that I should Google sometime. But it is now 6:30 and I am going to jump the gun test and feed the boy and give him some insulin by 7.
 
Ooooh...I thought you were worried about the fur shot thing. I think if you just poke, but don't inject the insulin, you'd be fine. And isn't PZI made from pigs?
 
ProZinc Insulin for Cats:
Active Ingredients per mL
Amount
Recombinant Human Insulin
40 IU (International Units)
Protamine Sulfate
.466 mg
Zinc Oxide
0.088 mg
Glycerin
16.00 mg
Dibasic Sodium Phosphate Heptahydrate
3.78 mg
Phenol (added as a preservative)
2.50 mg
Hydrochloric Acid
1.63 mg
Water for injection (maximum)
1005 mg
Other: pH is adjusted with hydrochloric acid and/or sodium hydroxide.

I could be wrong but I would hope they would have had warnings like Vetsulin.
 
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So it's made out of humans? :)
Okay, my bunny has food and insulin in him. Time to make a salad.
My musings went as far as wondering what happened if you had an injection of prozinc. Awesomely fast research there, Yong!
 
The super great vet ER in town also recommended the same vet that that my friend recommended, for pain management, hospice, and diabetes....And.... I just heard back from that vet. Her mother broke her hip and she has to help her, and she's not taking any new clients. Bummer.
She did give two referrals, so I'll check those out.
 
I think, Lois, that it's just a combination of things that makes Java have wonky numbers. I know you're going through so much right now..just remember that you are amazing! You take care of Java and you deal with the crazy numbers and his other issues and do a wonderful job. :bighug:
 
Thanks for your positivity. It helps.
He's at 636 this morning.
Assume still 1.75.
Edit, yes, because we got to yellow on 1.75 yesterday PM.
Ultra careful shot this am. Think I'll change where I do it, instead of going to him, bring him to my lap.
What locale, position, do you shoot?
 
Lois and Java said:
Thanks for your positivity. It helps.
He's at 636 this morning.
Assume still 1.75.
Edit, yes, because we got to yellow on 1.75 yesterday PM.
Ultra careful shot this am. Think I'll change where I do it, instead of going to him, bring him to my lap.
What locale, position, do you shoot?
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I prep my syringe at my desk under good light, put it in a little basket and carry it to my bathroom (same floor) where all the Teasel testing/shooting happens.
 
The second mobile vet left a message, giving a bunch of dates for an appointment. I left a message back asking for the first one, this coming Monday between 1 and 3. Hope it works out.

Java just got under my throw, and then lay on my belly for a while. He is not a cuddly boy, so that was nice. Presumably a good combination of squishy and warm for him. ;) He's looking for food, has to wait an hour.
 
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