2.75 units, 86 at 6:12pm est - little less than 2 hrs before shot?

Candy&Company

Candy&Company

Active Member
Went back down to 2.75 units Prozinc, i won't shoot (86 at 6:12pm food/shot 8pm) but when should I test after she eats if she climbs too high or....? I dunno! Could it be wrong, should I retest? She hasn't eaten a lot at ALL today because her brother is sick with dental and she's hissing/growling at him and not liking him getting all the attention now...?
 
Am I correct that she's at 86 about two hours before her normal shot time? Is she normally fed two hours before her insulin?
 
Yes, she was 86 at 6:15pm EST, her normal shot time is 8pm - food started at 7:20pm. They're not fed, Fena or Mao at 6pm or anywhere before 7:20pm when I start Fena. Fena ans Mao get fed at 7:20am, finish around 7:45 - 7:55am. Lunch, feed 1:120 - finish 1:45pm. Dinner same as breakfrest, just pm.

Leftovers left out in the interum, between it all..
 
I'm sorry, maybe I said it wrong - I test at or as close to as i can, 6am and 6pm because I shoot at 8am/pm. Am I wrong..? I thought it should be 2 hours before...
 
Ahh so many moving pieces! Pick up food 2 hours before shot time. That is to ensure a number that is not food influenced. Then test/feed/shoot as close as possible to each other at shot time :)
 
No that 86 BG at 6:12pm, that was Fena's prePM shot - that's what she was at before her dinner, before her normal shot at 8pm. I'm sorry am I messing this up? Why is she still hissing/growling at Mao - he's been all over me, my clothes, my blankets, etc. She's stressing him out and me, and herself.

Since Mao got sick, everything is screwed up. I dunno how to get it back on track???
 
All I was saying is if 8pm is her shot time, then you’d want her preshot test to be within a few minutes of that. 6:12 does not count as a preshot test.

Edit: once you figure out her pattern it can be a guide, but you don’t want to base skipping shots off a number that comes 2 hours before shot time. With Prozinc especially, the numbers can rise a lot in the last 2 hours.
 
Ooh, wait.. what? Okay I'm sorry, but I thought I read on this board that preshot tests should be about 2 hours before feed/shoot..? I'm sorry did I misunderstand? I thought if the feed/shot was like, 8am with Fena, preshot was about 6am or as close as you can get it?

I feel confused now, I'm sorry - was I doing this wrong then, or..?

I dunno what to do now, if not 2 hours before then... when? Right before feeding, at 8am, or..?
 
If her shot time is at 8, then at 6 you pickup the food so she will have no food between 6 and 8. Then at 8, you test, feed and shoot if numbers are high enough. If numbers aren’t high enough to shoot, your options are either skip, or stall without feeding for 20 -30 min, test and see if she rising enough to shoot.

ETA Have you checked out the guide to prozinc? There is a lot of great info in it
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/
 
Hi Candy. What SpotsMom said is correct: the pre-shot “test, feed, and shoot” should ideally take place within a few minutes of each other. I think we typically do all three — get the PS number, give her her breakfast or dinner, and give her her shot — in about ten minutes.

The “two hours before” is the time when it’s good, when starting out, to pick up any food. This is because feeding typically raises the blood glucose level, and so if kitty has just eaten, the PS test number may not be “true”; that is, it may be a touch high because it is food-influenced.
 
Ooh... I've been doing it wrong, then.

@SpotsMom, it wasn't that I didn't believe her - I DID, but from what I'd read I'd thought I was doing ok? Now this... I mean, has Fena suffered because of this/me..?

Is it because it's ProZinc? I mean.. I could've sworn it was 2 hours before feed/shoot to test, pull up food?

@Sharon14 - I read it initially but it scrambled my brain so I went by what I "had to do" to give her the shots and didn't go back to it...? Thank you so much for the link!

@JennaJosie - oooh okay, I've been doing it wrong then. I guess I just don't understand? I pull all food up at 6am, but I dunno when they've had food last - 1-2 hours ago, 20 min ago? I dunno. And being at home, they'll have food in their system - so I thought it was ok to test at 6am?

The vet curves, they don't allow any food - which is silly, my babies need breakfast, lunch and dinner at least.

That's why I thought the 2 hour before limit was good? I know the BG goes up when they eat, but doesn't it help to know what it is roughly, before food?

God I dunno I'm confused now. Isn't food influenced numbers something to consider? I mean, they have to eat, right? Why wouldn't I wanna know what they've ate pre-eat?

Am I misunderstanding something? I'm asking this honestly, because I'm confused, nervous and now worried. Logically it makes no sense to me?
 
Breathe, Candy, breathe! Okay now breathe again. It's going to be okay!

Yes, everyone is correct about the schedule. You want to do this:
  • About 2 hours before shot time (so around 6 AM and PM if you're shooting at 8), you want to take up all food. This is because food usually influences BG for about 2 hours after eating.
  • At 8 AM and PM (or within a few minutes of it) you want to take a BG reading. This is your AMPS and PMPS. This number is not food influenced since food isn't on board for the past 2 hours. This way, you're shooting on a "true" number rather than a food influenced one.
  • Within about 10 minutes of that reading (given that the cat is high enough to shoot), you give food and the insulin shot. I usually fed, waited until Gypsy had eaten a few bites at least, then gave the shot.
  • If kitty isn't high enough to shoot, you want to stall about 20 minutes without food and see if the number goes up.
It's fine to test at 6 AM and PM (just to have that info) but that cannot be your preshot tests, because you need to know what the number is 12 hours after the insulin. You still need to test at 8 to give insulin. Testing at 6 PM after shooting at 8 AM would mean you were only 10 hours post insulin and since Prozinc lasts usually 12-14 hours, you're not getting a real preshot number. Those last 2 hours can make quite a difference!

Yes, they need to eat! My babies breakfast and dinner time was the same as shot time. The thing is you want food to be on board WHEN you give insulin (thus making mealtimes at the same as shot times). But you want to know what the number is exactly 12 hours post shot with no food for the past 2 hours so your preshot number is not influenced by food and is not still affected by the previous shot since it's only been 10 hours.

Does this help clear it up at all? Please let me know if it doesn't! It can be confusing, but we want to be sure you understand and I'm not sure I'm explaining it well enough to make sense! Ask whatever you want and we'll be happy to answer!
 
Hi Candy - sorry I wasn't around to see the tag sooner. You asked if Fena has suffered because of this and the answer is No. She is just fine. Now that it's getting straightened out, it will help with getting her regulated. But what you've been doing hasn't hurt her. :bighug:
 
Rachel said:
Breathe, Candy, breathe! Okay now breathe again. It's going to be okay!

Yes, everyone is correct about the schedule. You want to do this:
  • About 2 hours before shot time (so around 6 AM and PM if you're shooting at 8), you want to take up all food. This is because food usually influences BG for about 2 hours after eating.
  • At 8 AM and PM (or within a few minutes of it) you want to take a BG reading. This is your AMPS and PMPS. This number is not food influenced since food isn't on board for the past 2 hours. This way, you're shooting on a "true" number rather than a food influenced one.
  • Within about 10 minutes of that reading (given that the cat is high enough to shoot), you give food and the insulin shot. I usually fed, waited until Gypsy had eaten a few bites at least, then gave the shot.
  • If kitty isn't high enough to shoot, you want to stall about 20 minutes without food and see if the number goes up.
It's fine to test at 6 AM and PM (just to have that info) but that cannot be your preshot tests, because you need to know what the number is 12 hours after the insulin. You still need to test at 8 to give insulin. Testing at 6 PM after shooting at 8 AM would mean you were only 10 hours post insulin and since Prozinc lasts usually 12-14 hours, you're not getting a real preshot number. Those last 2 hours can make quite a difference!

Yes, they need to eat! My babies breakfast and dinner time was the same as shot time. The thing is you want food to be on board WHEN you give insulin (thus making mealtimes at the same as shot times). But you want to know what the number is exactly 12 hours post shot with no food for the past 2 hours so your preshot number is not influenced by food and is not still affected by the previous shot since it's only been 10 hours.

Does this help clear it up at all? Please let me know if it doesn't! It can be confusing, but we want to be sure you understand and I'm not sure I'm explaining it well enough to make sense! Ask whatever you want and we'll be happy to answer!
Click to expand...

Yes this helps a lot, thank you so much!!! I'm so sorry I was doing it wrong, gosh. *sigh*
 
Djamila said:
Hi Candy - sorry I wasn't around to see the tag sooner. You asked if Fena has suffered because of this and the answer is No. She is just fine. Now that it's getting straightened out, it will help with getting her regulated. But what you've been doing hasn't hurt her. :bighug:
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Thank you so much, I feel so dumb - I know it's not helpful but can't help it sometimes. *sighs* Her shots show, now, number wise, a true difference. Thank you!! Will be posting - so hard with her, Mao, work, me, etc. I dunno how all of you do it - god love you, I'm struggling.
 
Candy&Company said:
Thank you so much, I feel so dumb - I know it's not helpful but can't help it sometimes. *sighs* Her shots show, now, number wise, a true difference. Thank you!! Will be posting - so hard with her, Mao, work, me, etc. I dunno how all of you do it - god love you, I'm struggling.
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Struggling is normal in the first months of treating FD, later on as well when you hit the inevitable bumps in the road. It helps to look at it as doing your best to help your kitty and to try not worrying about less than ideal numbers, the odd dosing boo boo and so on. You're doing a lot more than many kitty owners would do. Many opt for euthanasia after a diabetes diagnosis. Put on your "patience pants" as we call them here, take deep breaths and go easy on yourself. We're here to help. :)
 
Yes, I think we all struggle a lot at the beginning, and then at times here and there. I've been having a rough time of it myself lately with work being overwhelming and my hours crazy - and trying to get home in time to take care of Sam. Sigh. We'll all get through this, and remember you're not alone!
 
Thanks again so much! The problem I have with Fena is it just takes her SO long to "eat enough". That's why I'd started feeding at 7:20 because she'll take a few licks then walk away, then maybe 10 minutes later, a few more licks, etc. Even if I keep her bowl by her/follow her around with it.

So it can take her a good 30-40 minutes to even eat 1/4 of her food and that's with tricks like FortiFlora, crumbled freeze dried treats, sprinkle cheese, etc.

I think I read somewhere you can shoot with as little as 1 tablespoon of food in them if the numbers are right but that's always made me nervous. It's hard enough trying to "eyeball" what a 1/4th, 1/3rd, 1/2, etc. is when looking at the bowl let alone 1 tablespoon so I've always wanted to try hard to get as much into her as possible before the shot.

When I test at 8 now, it's pushed her shot time back - is that ok or is there anything else I can do?

Trying to wrap my head around this, LOL.

Granted she doesn't always take that long, some days go much much faster but it's about 50% of the time only.
 
One thing that worked for a time with Spot when he wasn’t eating.. I would test him an hour before shot time, then if his number was safe to shoot already, I’d go ahead and feed.. if his number was still a bit low, I’d wait about half an hour without feeding then test again to at least make sure its heading upwards without the help of food. With Prozinc, your main concern is that she shows a willingness to eat, not necessarily that she has enough food onboard before she gets her shot. You have about 2 hours after the shot to keep her eating before the insulin really kicks in.

Sometimes you do have to make concessions based on your own situation. Realize that the goal of the pre-shot test is to make sure it’s safe to give insulin, so if her number is high enough an hour before shot time, I think what you’re doing is just fine.
 
SpotsMom said:
One thing that worked for a time with Spot when he wasn’t eating.. I would test him an hour before shot time, then if his number was safe to shoot already, I’d go ahead and feed.. if his number was still a bit low, I’d wait about half an hour without feeding then test again to at least make sure its heading upwards without the help of food. With Prozinc, your main concern is that she shows a willingness to eat, not necessarily that she has enough food onboard before she gets her shot. You have about 2 hours after the shot to keep her eating before the insulin really kicks in.

Sometimes you do have to make concessions based on your own situation. Realize that the goal of the pre-shot test is to make sure it’s safe to give insulin, so if her number is high enough an hour before shot time, I think what you’re doing is just fine.
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Huh I never thought of that! Okay so.. test at 7, and if she's ok to shoot then I can do the 7:20 feed start? And if not, delay and retest at 7:30?

Yeah I remember that about ProZinc, the 2 hour window give or take, I just don't like to trust it because for example if in those 40 minutes she barely eats (say a tablespoon or so) unless I keep "chasing" her with the bowl she might not eat anymore until the 2 hour window has passed. Like if I'd put her bowl down and leave eating more up to her she sometimes doesn't go to it until 11am-12pm when it's getting closer to "lunch". Then she'd chow down like I wish she'd do at shot time.

When she was on dry food before her diagnosis she was a free-feeder, which is what she prefers even now I think.

In the very early days of her full switch to wet food that's what I'd do - chase her and get her to finish breakfast before 9:30/10:30am give or take.

But that really screwed up my work schedule so I did it as long as I could, then switched to what I'm doing now - trying to get enough into her for the shot, then putting the bowl down and letting her come to it when she wants to.

I guess what I mean is, trying to get her to eat as much as possible before the shot just kinda makes "me" feel better? Like a "just in case"..?

I'm gonna give what you said a try, and do the 7 test AM and PM and then see - fingers crossed and thank you all so much!!
 
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