2/6 - Zelda - AMPS 103 / +2 234 / +4 182 / PMPS 242

Peter Moore

Peter Moore

Member Since 2019
I guess this settles the question of whether to go back to 0.1. And yes I will get a +2...

Similar pattern to 2/3 PM to 2/4 AM. Almost exactly the same relative drop overnight (-120 vs. -129). Wish I could pinpoint what's been different. Chicken & Liver has slightly fewer carbs than Chicken or Beef?

I'm definitely going to stop doing the noon "lunch" and try to get her to eat everything by +3 or +4 now, to mirror what's going on at night. I have to presume that at 2 drops the food just has a much bigger influence than it did before.
 
What a nice start for Zelda. Glad you can get a +2 before you leave. I hope this trend continues. Perhaps the ear infection has cleared enough to help the numbers come down. Fingers and paws crossed.
 
+2 234
o_O

4 pieces of Orijen kibble??

Could the AMPS test have been a bad strip?
 
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From the +2 you have got previously, she does tend to get a food bump, though. I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet.

Eta- if ever you get a lower or higher than normal test, doesn't hurt to immediately do another (unless it does hurt!)
 
I mean, I can't fathom how she would be dropping to unsafe levels overnight while being above normal during the day, and eating almost exactly the same thing AM and PM.

I've got to go out at 10 CT but I'm gonna try to sneak one more test in before I go. I want to at least rule out a bad strip.

All the more reason to do a full 12 hour curve with no food after breakfast I guess. Scheduled for Tuesday next week.
 
Peter Moore said:
+2 234
o_O

4 pieces of Orijen kibble??

Could the AMPS test have been a bad strip?
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Do you know what the carb count in Orijen kibble is? I suspect it's rather high. A food bump shouldn't be any more than 50 points.

How about trying some Young Again kibble, it's under 1% and there is another one that is lower.... I think it's EVO YA will send out free samples if you are in the US. Not sure where you are located.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
When you do the curve don't withhold food or your curve will be lower . Feed her as usual.
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That's how we do it at the vet's office. AMPS test, food, injection, 12 hour curve. We want to see the nadir in the absence of additional food. And she doesn't get extra food overnight anyway.

Bobbie And Bubba said:
Do you know what the carb count in Orijen kibble is? I suspect it's rather high. A food bump shouldn't be any more than 50 points.
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Agreed. I believe it's in the 20% range but they are slowly digestible high fiber items.

And - four pieces.
 
Young Again is one choice. Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein is another one. My cats like the Dr. Elsey's a lot better than Young Again. One more choice is Wysong Epigen 90. They are all high protein and low carb.
 
4 pieces at 20% can play havoc on the numbers.

I disagree with the curve being done without food as 12 hours is too long for a diabetic cat to go without food. Their blood glucose is sure to drop lower without food and then the insulin doses are being based on those lower readings. It is better for their pancreas to be fed several small meals a day, at least 3 but more is better ( I do 6 small meals a day, 3 in each cycle) I realize that is harder for people who are working outside their homes so that is where the auto feeder is a good idea.

Most kitties go lower at night time so food through that cycle is a real good idea to keep them safe.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I disagree with the curve being done without food as 12 hours is too long for a diabetic cat to go without food. Their blood glucose is sure to drop lower without food and then the insulin doses are being based on those lower readings. It is better for their pancreas to be fed several small meals a day, at least 3 but more is better ( I do 6 small meals a day, 3 in each cycle) I realize that is harder for people who are working outside their homes so that is where the auto feeder is a good idea.
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Thanks. Unfortunately there seem to be differing opinions out there on that and since that's the way we've always done it I would rather have apples to apples data. They'll be monitoring and will take action if she gets dangerously low, and I make the dosing decisions now not them. :)

BTW an auto feeder for wet food? What do you use?

Bobbie And Bubba said:
4 pieces at 20% can play havoc on the numbers.
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Yeah, that's where I'm leaning toward putting my money. 2/3's 317 was after trying some slightly higher carb Purina DM. Last night was FF Chicken & Liver which has 1% fewer carbs than the other flavors.

Hyper-sensitive to insulin AND hyper-sensitive to carbs...
 
+3.5 182

Now that's a little more like it.

Guess we really are throwing out the Orijen. At least it served its purpose of keeping her numbers stable on the way down to this micro dose!
 
Kitties definitely like to keep things interesting. It could be a bounce or just a food spike. My buddy Lou sometimes would go up quite a lot before coming back down. It's hard to say. We haven't actually set up our auto-feeders yet since someone is almost always home (my husband and I work opposite schedules), but you can put an ice cube in early meals to keep it cold and add water, and you can make "foodsicles" by freezing the food for later meals.

We also feed our kids smaller meals multiple times a day. Most folks try not to feed too late, but we feed 4 times per cycle (which does seem like a lot but it cuts down on cranky kitties around here, haha). Bigger meals at PS and +3/+4 and smaller snacks at +6/+7 and +9/+9.5.

I hope Princess Z comes down for you today!
 
Peter Moore said:
BTW an auto feeder for wet food? What do you use?
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I use the PetSafe 5. The company's customer service is awesome. I got my two petsafes from Amazon and when I had an issue with one, I called the company and they sent me out another one ASAP with no proof of purchase. They just asked that I send the bad one back to them and even included a postage paid label.

I also bought ice packs that fit into the indentation under the feeding try so that the food would not spoil. They are called catmates . I thought I had the link to them ,but I can't find it. Just found on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-Ice-Pack-C20-Feeder/dp/B00176DR5G/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
 
I'm starting to be troubled by the fact that these low(er) BG bouts (if that's what this morning was) tend to be accompanied by vomit. I wonder could there be still be some pancreatitis or worse, that's causing sudden bursts of insulin production and her to not feel well at the same time... No way to diagnose it without cutting her open though, and that's where I draw the line.
 
PMPS 242. All in all pretty consistent few days here except for this morning's 103.

Mandy & Rex said:
Did she just get sick? If so, what kind of vomit was it? Food, clear, etc?
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It was brown like the food. But only a small amount of actual material.

majandra said:
Is it always overnight that she vomits?
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Yeah almost always. One exception was 1/11 PM when she was hurling her whole dinner at 10 PM and was 45 at Midnight, and still couldn't hold down food, so I took her to the ER. That coincided with her trying some Orijen Regional Red earlier in the evening, which is lower in carbs but other people have reported issues with it so I had been assuming that was the culprit that night.

There was also some vomit the morning of 1/30, after which she was 42 at AMPS. But she kept down everything I fed her thereafter.

And then some vomit this morning with the AMPS of 103. (If we believe AMPS was really 103.) She likewise had no problem keeping down breakfast.

She was also totally fine in the days before and after the 1/22 curve which had lime greens.

It sure feels like a correlation is emerging though. Which is causing which (vomit -> low BG -> vomit), or whether there's a causal relationship at all, I don't know. Well before she had diabetes, she used to barf on a weekly basis or so (as has every cat I've lived with) really her whole life. Never thought anything of it. Then it virtually stopped when we moved to all wet food about 2 years ago. So now whenever it happens it's surprising.
 
Today's AMPS 92. o_Oo_O

No vomit but a little diarrhea last night. Gave her 1/4 tab cerenia as directed. Only ate 1.5 cans of FF over the course of the cycle rather than her usual 2.
 
JoyBee&Ravan said:
According to Dr. Pierson ALL dry food should be eliminated. If the vomiting "stopped" when you went to all wet food WHY are you feeding any dry food?
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5753635/#!po=57.3620

"Individualised diet therapy is recommended in diabetic cats. Although low-carbohydrate diets are a good option for some cats, good control and possibly remission can also be achieved with a higher carbohydrate diet designed for the management of diabetes. These higher carbohydrate diets do not contain simple sugars, have sources of complex carbohydrates that are less glycaemic and also include dietary fibre to help manage body weight and blood glucose response"
 
That +2 is a more reasonable food bump. Can you get another test in this cycle? Looking good Princess Zelda!

Some housekeeping : Each day start a whole new thread with the date, Zelda and the AMPS rather than just changing the date on the thread and continuing. That will prevent each thread from getting too long and if you should need help another member doesn't have #28 lines to read through to understand how to help you. Then just link the previous day's thread in your post.
 
Gotcha thanks.

I may try one more mid-day. This lancing device is starting to go I think. It keeps making uneven jabs, more like cuts than pricks. Wasted 5 strips in the last day because of it. Better one should arrive tomorrow or I might try going without it.
 
Peter Moore said:
Gotcha thanks.

I may try one more mid-day. This lancing device is starting to go I think. It keeps making uneven jabs, more like cuts than pricks. Wasted 5 strips in the last day because of it. Better one should arrive tomorrow or I might try going without it.
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That stinks because of the expense of the AT2 strips, holy cow. I don't use the spring mechanism in the lancing because the pop noise startled Bubba. I took the top off and just place the lancet into the device and all the device is doing for me is giving me more to hold onto. You might try that.
 
Oh that's a good idea thanks!

Also I started clicking the lancer when I give her the treat. Like what animal trainers do. The part she seems to hate most is the strip touching her skin. So I started doing it on the outer (fur) side which has been a little easier too.
 
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